Comments on: No tax dollars for smut! http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2005/07/22/no-tax-dollars-for-smut/ Don't dis or dismiss this miss! Sat, 21 Nov 2009 23:28:30 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Sister Toldjah http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2005/07/22/no-tax-dollars-for-smut/comment-page-1/#comment-14308 Sister Toldjah Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:07:39 +0000 /?p=706#comment-14308 Due to continued insults that had to be deleted in the moderation que, the comments section for this thread is now closed. Tip to newbies: It's generally not a good idea to come to someone's blog and insult the blog host right out of the gate. It's sort of like coming into someone's home and telling them they have an ugly house. I enjoy and respect rational debate here, but won't tolerate flaming and insults. If you have something to say about the issue, say it in a respectful manner. Don't make the issues personal, ad hominem attacks. Thanks. To Justin: If you have any more comments about this issue, please email me. Thanks for taking the time to debate me rather than belittling my opinion. I wish more who shared your view were the same. Due to continued insults that had to be deleted in the moderation que, the comments section for this thread is now closed.

Tip to newbies: It’s generally not a good idea to come to someone’s blog and insult the blog host right out of the gate. It’s sort of like coming into someone’s home and telling them they have an ugly house.

I enjoy and respect rational debate here, but won’t tolerate flaming and insults. If you have something to say about the issue, say it in a respectful manner. Don’t make the issues personal, ad hominem attacks. Thanks.

To Justin: If you have any more comments about this issue, please email me. Thanks for taking the time to debate me rather than belittling my opinion. I wish more who shared your view were the same.

]]> By: Sister Toldjah http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2005/07/22/no-tax-dollars-for-smut/comment-page-1/#comment-14232 Sister Toldjah Tue, 26 Jul 2005 18:10:59 +0000 /?p=706#comment-14232 <strong>Freddie:</strong> "Oh well, what's the point of trying to talk to people like you? You'll just ignore the facts and keep trying to hammer home your personal religious beliefs." <strong>ST:</strong> 'People like me'? 'religious beliefs'? Sorry, I don't respond well to insults or strawmen arguments. It would have really been nice of you to address the *substance* of what I said in my last comment to you rather than go ad hominem. I don't ask the world of people, only that they respect my POV as I would respect theirs. I guess that was too much to ask of you. Goodbye. Freddie: “Oh well, what’s the point of trying to talk to people like you? You’ll just ignore the facts and keep trying to hammer home your personal religious beliefs.”

ST: ‘People like me’? ‘religious beliefs’? Sorry, I don’t respond well to insults or strawmen arguments. It would have really been nice of you to address the *substance* of what I said in my last comment to you rather than go ad hominem. I don’t ask the world of people, only that they respect my POV as I would respect theirs. I guess that was too much to ask of you. Goodbye.

]]> By: Freddie http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2005/07/22/no-tax-dollars-for-smut/comment-page-1/#comment-14231 Freddie Tue, 26 Jul 2005 18:03:39 +0000 /?p=706#comment-14231 You seem to be purposefully ignoring the factual basis of any counterpoints to your basically uninformed argument. Oh well, what's the point of trying to talk to people like you? You'll just ignore the facts and keep trying to hammer home your personal religious beliefs. Boring! Before I leave you to it, one more try: Public = Culture. Why should YOU be the one to pick and choose what gets supported? Sure, you can say you don't like it, it offends you, but don't get all up in arms that other members of society want to see the interesting things that artists come up with and think about the tricky issues that they may raise. Go ahead, live with your eyes and your mind closed, but don't bother to think that this gives you any sort of moral superiority. You seem to be purposefully ignoring the factual basis of any counterpoints to your basically uninformed argument. Oh well, what’s the point of trying to talk to people like you? You’ll just ignore the facts and keep trying to hammer home your personal religious beliefs. Boring! Before I leave you to it, one more try: Public = Culture. Why should YOU be the one to pick and choose what gets supported? Sure, you can say you don’t like it, it offends you, but don’t get all up in arms that other members of society want to see the interesting things that artists come up with and think about the tricky issues that they may raise. Go ahead, live with your eyes and your mind closed, but don’t bother to think that this gives you any sort of moral superiority.

]]> By: Sister Toldjah http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2005/07/22/no-tax-dollars-for-smut/comment-page-1/#comment-14229 Sister Toldjah Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:40:16 +0000 /?p=706#comment-14229 <strong>Justin:</strong> "but art doesn't have to be pleasant to be noteworthy." <strong>ST:</strong> You're right, it doesn't, but where do *YOU* draw the line? Or is there even a line you think should be drawn? Remember, we're talking about PUBLIC money here, not a private donation. <strong>Freddie: </strong> "It's called culture." <strong>ST: </strong> If that's supposed to be considered "culture" then I'll stay UNcultured, thank you very much. I can appreciate art as much as the next person, but (as I asked Justin earlier) at what point does art become something UNartistic to you? Is there a line? <strong>Freddie</strong>: "Smut is in the eye of the beholder too, you know." <strong>ST: </strong>Yep - smut to some is treasure to others, I guess. Justin: “but art doesn’t have to be pleasant to be noteworthy.”

ST: You’re right, it doesn’t, but where do *YOU* draw the line? Or is there even a line you think should be drawn? Remember, we’re talking about PUBLIC money here, not a private donation.

Freddie: “It’s called culture.”

ST: If that’s supposed to be considered “culture” then I’ll stay UNcultured, thank you very much. I can appreciate art as much as the next person, but (as I asked Justin earlier) at what point does art become something UNartistic to you? Is there a line?

Freddie: “Smut is in the eye of the beholder too, you know.”

ST: Yep – smut to some is treasure to others, I guess.

]]> By: Freddie http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2005/07/22/no-tax-dollars-for-smut/comment-page-1/#comment-14222 Freddie Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:33:55 +0000 /?p=706#comment-14222 No one gave her $5,000 to pay for her to make that specific piece. She was awarded a $5,000 grant by the Colorado State Council of the Arts in 2003 because she is a talented artist with interesting ideas, which is what the council is designed to support. It's called culture. Smut is in the eye of the beholder too, you know. No one gave her $5,000 to pay for her to make that specific piece. She was awarded a $5,000 grant by the Colorado State Council of the Arts in 2003 because she is a talented artist with interesting ideas, which is what the council is designed to support. It’s called culture. Smut is in the eye of the beholder too, you know.

]]> By: Justin http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2005/07/22/no-tax-dollars-for-smut/comment-page-1/#comment-14171 Justin Tue, 26 Jul 2005 08:10:34 +0000 /?p=706#comment-14171 The whole, "fiscal crunch" is clearly a smoke screen. If that was so, the $1.5 million Dancers would never have been approved: http://www.denverpost.com/conventioncenter/ci_0002809437 Bill Owens never saw the piece - he was only was given a description. I live in Denver and you are right that Art is in the eye of the beholder. I do hold a BFA In Fine Arts, it is my opinion that Serrano's work is fantastic - controversial, sure, but art doesn't have to be pleasant to be noteworthy. The whole, “fiscal crunch” is clearly a smoke screen. If that was so, the $1.5 million Dancers would never have been approved:

http://www.denverpost.com/conventioncenter/ci_0002809437

Bill Owens never saw the piece – he was only was given a description.

I live in Denver and you are right that Art is in the eye of the beholder. I do hold a BFA In Fine Arts, it is my opinion that Serrano’s work is fantastic – controversial, sure, but art doesn’t have to be pleasant to be noteworthy.

]]> By: Sister Toldjah http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2005/07/22/no-tax-dollars-for-smut/comment-page-1/#comment-13473 Sister Toldjah Sun, 24 Jul 2005 18:45:48 +0000 /?p=706#comment-13473 Hi Justin - I have seen the 'art' in question (via a simple Google search) and still maintain that the city of Denver should do a bit better job in determining where their money goes, considering they are facing a fiscal crunch right now. Now of course, I don't live in Denver but I could very well see the same thing happening here in the city I live in, which is growing more, um - 'progressive' every year. I guess 'art' is in the eye of the beholder. I also remember the "Piss Christ" controversy as well. (it's something I wish I could forget, frankly) :( Hi Justin – I have seen the ‘art’ in question (via a simple Google search) and still maintain that the city of Denver should do a bit better job in determining where their money goes, considering they are facing a fiscal crunch right now. Now of course, I don’t live in Denver but I could very well see the same thing happening here in the city I live in, which is growing more, um – ‘progressive’ every year. I guess ‘art’ is in the eye of the beholder.

I also remember the “Piss Christ” controversy as well. (it’s something I wish I could forget, frankly) :(

]]> By: Justin http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2005/07/22/no-tax-dollars-for-smut/comment-page-1/#comment-12791 Justin Sat, 23 Jul 2005 04:17:55 +0000 /?p=706#comment-12791 I'd hold comments about it until you've actually have seen the piece of art in question. I think Denver also has a "1% for the Arts" program, so regardless of what gets made, there's a part of the budget set aside for artwork. You may also want to do some research on how much of the budget has been cut out for publically funded art, and arts in the schools. You may also want to do some research on a historical case of Piss Christ by Andres Serrano, which is a somewhat similar case of an artist using national grant money to fund photographs that were under quite a bit of criticism because they showed Christ on the cross in a jar of urine. I’d hold comments about it until you’ve actually have seen the piece of art in question.

I think Denver also has a “1% for the Arts” program, so regardless of what gets made, there’s a part of the budget set aside for artwork.

You may also want to do some research on how much of the budget has been cut out for publically funded art, and arts in the schools.

You may also want to do some research on a historical case of Piss Christ by Andres Serrano, which is a somewhat similar case of an artist using national grant money to fund photographs that were under quite a bit of criticism because they showed Christ on the cross in a jar of urine.

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