David

The issue is relevant, because you’ve continued to push the idea that it is up to the feds to respond first, and you used the DHS document to try and prove it. The state HAS to ask for help first, I asserted that and now you seem to agree with it.

“The Federal government could have used helicopters to fly supplies in and carry people out, but they did not do this.”

The feds started dropping supplies in on Thursday.

“The Federal government did have advance warning that the hurricane was coming so they did have time to prepare”

As did local officials, who failed to act in a timely manner.

As for the rest, save the talking points. I’ve heard them before. The President called Gov. Blanco on Saturday and asked her to issue a mandatory evacuation. Where the problem came in on the “slow response” was the confusion over who was supposed to do what: local, state, or federal. The feds didn’t sit on their hands through this whole affair Brian, and nothing you’ve posted proves that. Nothing. You just, for whatever reason, want to assume that the President (nor the feds in general) gave a crap about what was happening in NO. If you do some digging you’ll see that wasn’t the case. The local and state officials were doing such a bad job handling it that the feds were trying to take over handling it from the state on Friday after the hurricane hit. I’ve already provided the link.

You’ve already made up your mind though that the President and feds didn’t care and bungled this from the get go, and that’s certainly your right to do so but the facts are contrary to that. Believe whatever you want to, though. It makes no difference to me. People will believe what they want to believe.

I never said that first responders to natural disasters are supposed to be feds, only there may circumstances when this happens, as stated in the DHS document. Since we’re both in agreement that the governor of Louisiana requested assistance from the Federal government, this issue is not relevant here.

You said:

“‘Several’ more days? That’s not so. Have you not read up on the history of the attempts by groups like the Red Cross trying to gain access to the Superdome but being denied by the STATE DHS? Let’s also not forget that the Gov. didn’t request a massive amount of National Guard assistance until *Wednesdsay.* Let’s also not forget the response time to disasters from the feds is typically 72-96 hours:”

As I said before in my previous post, the Red Cross was not allowed in New Orleans because it was considered unsafe for them. The Federal government could have used helicopters to fly supplies in and carry people out, but they did not do this. The Federal government did have advance warning that the hurricane was coming so they did have time to prepare. A 1993 report by the General Accounting office, the investigative arm of Congress, concluded that “the Department of Defense is the only organization capable of providing, transporting and distributing sufficient quantities of items need” in a catastrophe such as Katrina. For the first 2-3 days of the crisis, I did not see any sense of urgency by the President or the Federal government. Last Sunday, New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson offered Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco help from his state’s national guard and Governor Blanco accepted. In order for the national guard of one state to be used in another state, federal approval is required. In this case, the paperwork from Washington did not arrive until late Thursday. The federal Department of Homeland Security waited until 36 hours after Katrina struck to declare it an “incident of national significance”. This designation is used to mobilize the full strength of the federal government, including the military to deal with a catastrophe. The same day the levee was breached in New Orleans, President Bush travel to an Arizona resort to promote Medicare drug benefit and the day after flew to California to give a speech on World War II.

The reason the Red Cross was not allowed into New Orleans was because it was not safe for them to go there. When asked by Larry King why the Red Cross was not in New Orleans, Red Cross President and CEO, Marty Evans responded, “Well, Larry, when the storm came our goal was prior to landfall to support the evacuation. It was unsafe to be in the city. We were asked by the city not to be there and the Superdome was made a shelter of last resorts and, quite frankly in retrospect, it was a good idea because otherwise those people would have had no shelter at all.”

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0509/02/lkl.01.html

The Federal government did have helicopters that could have been used to carry supplies in to the Superdome and people out, but they did not do this. Apparently it does not seem to bother you that people were suffering, and in some cases dying, and nothing was done to help them for several days.

LINK”

That wasn’t in dispute. What was in dispute was your claim that the “first responders” to natural disasters are supposed to be the feds. It’s not.

Your own link proves it.

“I also recall seeing the Mayor of New Orleans appealing for federal assistance on television, after New Orleans was flooded, yet there was no significant help from the federal government for several more days.”

‘Several’ more days? That’s not so. Have you not read up on the history of the attempts by groups like the Red Cross trying to gain access to the Superdome but being denied by the STATE DHS? Let’s also not forget that the Gov. didn’t request a massive amount of National Guard assistance until *Wednesdsay.* Let’s also not forget the response time to disasters from the feds is typically 72-96 hours:

Other federal and state officials pointed to Louisiana’s failure to measure up to national disaster response standards, noting that the federal plan advises state and local emergency managers not to expect federal aid for 72 to 96 hours, and base their own preparedness efforts on the need to be self-sufficient for at least that period.

“When the state of Florida was hit by hurricanes in 2004, the Federal government did not hesitate to send assistance.

LINK”

The federal gov’t didn’t hesitate here, either. You had a city that was flooded, roads and highways that were near impossible to travel on. The feds didn’t just sit on their behinds while this was happening, Brian.

“Second, if state and local officials must always respond first to natural disasters and Fed’s can’t step in and overstep state’s authority, why was it written in the DHS National Response Plan that they can? The document was written by government officials. The plan specifically states:

Notification and full coordination with States will occur, but the coordination process must not delay or impede the rapid deployment and use of critical resources. States are urged to notify and coordinate with local governments regarding a proactive Federal response.”

Why don’t you ask them? Better yet, ask Gov. Blanco, who at least knew enough to write the letter asking for federal help in the first place.

“Can you explain what harm would have been done if the Federal government would have sent helicopters into New Orleans to rescue people trapped in the Superdome right away, regardless of whether or not there had been requests from state officials for assistance?”

Try a possible violation of the states rights, Brian:

As New Orleans descended into chaos last week and Louisiana’s governor asked for 40,000 soldiers, President Bush’s senior advisers debated whether the president should speed the arrival of active-duty troops by seizing control of the hurricane relief mission from the governor.

[...]

To seize control of the mission, Mr. Bush would have had to invoke the Insurrection Act, which allows the president in times of unrest to command active-duty forces into the states to perform law enforcement duties. But decision makers in Washington felt certain that Ms. Blanco would have resisted surrendering control, as Bush administration officials believe would have been required to deploy active-duty combat forces before law and order had been re-established.

“My impression of why it took so long for the Federal government to provide significant assistance was more due to indifference or incompetence of government officials rather than anyone waiting for requests for assistance from state or local officials. If you know of any references showing where Federal government assistance was held up because they were waiting for requests for assistance from state or local officials, I would be interested in seeing them.”

For starters, how about the state DHS denying access for the Red Cross into the Superdome and the NO Convention Center? See this as well:

But complicating matters is that Blanco, during the weekend after Katrina hit, apparently also “rejected a more modest proposal for a hybrid command structure in which both the Guard and active-duty troops would be under the command of an active-duty, three-star general–but only after he had been sworn into the Louisiana National Guard.”

Bush could have federalized the relief effort, but had Blanco rejected this, it could have created the kind of state vs. federal crisis that the U.S. hadn’t seen since the civil rights era–though the context was obviously quite different.

There is a process and there is law.

Your posting of points concerning “Proactive Federal Response to Catastrophic Events” never said “First Responders” nor did it say military control or federal control of national guard nor did it even speak to the Insurrection Act that would’ve had to have been invoked due to Gov Blanco’s prohibiting federal control of the relief effort or even not letting the Red Cross (managed by FEMA) to bring supplies that they were ready to bring to the convention center and Superdome

There is no federal agency or organization responsible for Superdome or Convention center suffering and dying. They tried and were denied.

Hey hey if the glove don’t fit….

First of all, the Governor of Louisiana did ask for assistance before New Orleans was flooded.

LINK

I also recall seeing the Mayor of New Orleans appealing for federal assistance on television, after New Orleans was flooded, yet there was no significant help from the federal government for several more days.

When the state of Florida was hit by hurricanes in 2004, the Federal government did not hesitate to send assistance.

LINK

Second, if state and local officials must always respond first to natural disasters and Fed’s can’t step in and overstep state’s authority, why was it written in the DHS National Response Plan that they can? The document was written by government officials. The plan specifically states:

Notification and full coordination with States will occur, but the coordination process must not delay or impede the rapid deployment and use of critical resources. States are urged to notify and coordinate with local governments regarding a proactive Federal response.

You said:

“I don’t recall the feds stepping in on Florida territory until asked by the state. That is how it works, and how it should always be.”

Can you explain what harm would have been done if the Federal government would have sent helicopters into New Orleans to rescue people trapped in the Superdome right away, regardless of whether or not there had been requests from state officials for assistance?

My impression of why it took so long for the Federal government to provide significant assistance was more due to indifference or incompetence of government officials rather than anyone waiting for requests for assistance from state or local officials. If you know of any references showing where Federal government assistance was held up because they were waiting for requests for assistance from state or local officials, I would be interested in seeing them.

If the Feds would have flown in with the cavalry first before giving the local and state a chance to respond, that would be a serious states rights issue violation, and those newfound states rights folks on the left (who found a love of states rights during the Terri Schiavo saga) would have hit the roof – and this time, rightfully so.

Again, you can keep attempting to challenge me on this, but those are the facts. And if you’re not a believer in those facts, check on how the wave of hurricanes last year in Florida were handled and then you’ll understand how the system works. I don’t recall the feds stepping in on Florida territory until asked by the state. That is how it works, and how it should always be.

If the first response to natural disasters is always the state and local government as the article says, how do you interpret what is written in The Dept. of Homeland Security National Response plan regarding, “Proactive Federal Response to Catastrophic Events”? (see my previous post)

So did Mary Landrieu by Chris Wallace. Chris showed the bus pictures and also showed the Washington Post article concerning more spending on the flood control projects in LA during Bush’s last five years than the last 5 years of Clinton.

The media know that the first response to natural disasters is always from the local and state governments.

The Dept. of Homeland Security National Response plan calls for “Proactive Federal Response to Catastrophic Events”.

Guiding Principles for proactive Federal response include the following:

* The primary mission is to save lives; protect critical infrastructure, property, and the environment; contain the event; and preserve national security.
* Standard procedures regarding requests for assistance may be expedited or, under extreme circumstances, suspended in the immediate aftermath of an event of catastrophic magnitude.
* Identified Federal response resources will deploy and begin necessary operations as required to commence life-safety activities.
* Notification and full coordination with States will occur, but the coordination process must not delay or impede the rapid deployment and use of critical resources. States are urged to notify and coordinate with local governments regarding a proactive Federal response.

Many of the points made in this article are turning out to be lies.

Your comments are both ignorant and racist. Not everyone stranded in New Orleans was “looting and shooting” and on welfare as you are suggesting. Many of the people were not.

The mayor of New Orleans and the governor of Louisiana are NOT my “beloved governor and mayor”. It’s very ignorant of you to make that assumption.

That line needs to be attributed to the responsible parties – or the Democratic Party, who have been in control of Louisiana and New Orleans politics for sixty years. In that time, with all their social engineering, they should have generated a utopian society where everyone was a productive, happy, well-adjusted member contributing to the good of all. (These are the things they claim their social programs will produce.) Your beloved governor and mayor couldn’t get past trying to control one another to start a school bus and evacuate their indigent charges. Who will be left to vote for these goofballs with you next election? They plus Katrina gave us is an amalgam of thugs and ne’er-do-wells who trying to speed up the process they’ve become accustomed to; taking from those who’ve earned. Instead of waiting for the welfare check, now they’re looting and shooting at their would-be saviors. I suppose you think their “getting back at society” is fair. You save ‘em. Your response to this crisis is inexcusable.