Seems to me that Clinton did a great deal to hurt our image in the world too. During Kosovo the inteligence said to bomb a certain building that turned out to be the Chinese Embassy which had moved there 2 years earlier. Our Intel people went “Opps”, and thousands of Chinese attacked and destroyed our Embassy in China. Stuff like that makes you feel so loved around the world. Talk about a guy that should of been charged with war crimes. – Lorica

yes. this is the level of debate we get wtih leftists…..

Kenwg continues this level of debate with “You have to be smart enough to see that anyone without blinders on doesn’t take her seriously. You’ll have to do better.”

Attacking a poster’s intelligence and ability to see with perspective. Not such good behavior. I find Victoria’s point of view very pursuasive and I too have read the law. Which, BTW, Fitzgerald didn’t charge Libby with breaking that law.

Kenwg comments about his behavior with these follow up words, “but I don’t mean to be”

Only you can control your ownself. Every marriage counselor worth their salt learns one important thing and tries to convey to every couple one important thing. You can only control yourself. You can express words in a kind manner and in a suggestive manner but if your spouse (or person you are dialoging with) doesn’t change the only thing you can focus on is what you do, what your behavior is like and what words you say and with what tone.

I am in favor of a much better debate of ideas and facts. It is VERY difficult to do, especially since leftists and liberals seem to believe that Republicans/conservatives are evil. With that mindset Kenwg you will not get anywhere debating us. You won’t be pursuasive.

TTYL

You’re in denial. Try taking a step back and looking at what you’ve said.

I don’t doubt that Toensing knows what SHE had in mind when she helped write the bill. But she was only one negotiator among several, and wasn’t at all one of the several hundred who debated it on the floor and voted for it. Does she know what was in the minds of all?

The published law speaks for itself. Have you read it? Why don’t you take a moment to address THAT point in my memo, instead of coninuing to cling to the self-serving fulminations of a notorious right-wing partisan. You have to be smart enough to see that anyone without blinders on doesn’t take her seriously. You’ll have to do better.

And you still cling to the idea that democratic partisans in the various Bureaucracies are behind this? You’re sounding like a conspiracy nut. You mean Mr. Fitzgerald? Don’t make me laugh. Or perhaps Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty, who appointed Fitzgerald? Or Judge Reggie Walton? Or Dick Gergen, Bush Senior, Brent Scowcroft, and Senator John McCain, all of whom support the investigation? Do your research, PCD, before engaging your mouth. You won’t look quite so blindly partisan.

The Democrats aren’t the ones behind this. It’s Bush I’s team, stepping in and taking over for the failed ideologs and incompetents that they fear are bringing the republican party down. THEY are the ones pulling the strings, not the Dems.

And as for Haiti and Kosovo, yeah, we’re really suffering heavy casualties there, and seeing stories of the violence and warfare there every day, aren’t we.
Again, PCD, do some fact-checking for clicking that “Say it” button. You’ll probably avoid saying some things that tend to undermine your credibility.

I probably sound patronizing but I don’t mean to be. I just want you and others to look at things a little more deeply and not just blurt out you’re long-held but erroneous stereotypes.

Have a good one!

KG

No offense intended – keep up the commentary, it’s a good foil to keep those of us who

President Clinton and Quarter-bright were so intent on getting the Nobel Peace Prize [awarded to Yasser Arafat but not Pope John Paul II or President Reagan which tells you all you need to know about its worth] that they ignored whatever mayhem our enemies chose to inflict on our citizens and military. That is not commendable in my opinion.

My what a short memory you have. Try Kosovo and Haiti. We are still there in both cases.

Toensing wrote the law for Sen. Goldwater to push. If anyone should know the reasoning behind it and what violates it, it would be her, not YOU!

Also, Mr. Bush didn’t clean out Democratic, partisan holdovers in the government. He should have. There is a knot of CIA insiders who are Clintonistas and really should have been fired long ago. These are the CIA people who started their little plot to get rid of Mr. Bush.

ST,

You know I have to disagree with this.

Certainly the Democrats would love to crush Karl Rove, and just about every other member of this administration along with him, if they could. But wasn’t it a group of ex-CIA agents that asked for this investigation? (it’s notable that “Presidential Medal of Freedom” recipient and CIA Director at the time Mr. Tenent couldn’t stir himself to do so) And wasn’t it the Republican Justice Department who agreed, and appointed the special prosecutor? And the highly respected Mr. Fitzgerald – even Mr. Bush acknowledges his professionalism – is certainly no liberal Democrat.

The implication that the Democrats, or the left in general, could have contrived to initiate this investigation in order to “get Rove” can’t be taken seriously. It’s beyond plausibility to suggest that they have the reach (to say nothing of the collective brain cells) needed to successfully put together such an endeavor. The Dems just don’t have the horsepower. The Republicans control everything, and they would certainly never acquiesce to such a coup by the Democrats.

And by the way, Baklava, the hubristic pronouncements of Victoria Toensing (certainly not the most unbiased commentator) notwithstanding, there is every possibility that the 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act was indeed violated. Ms. Toensing may claim to know the intent of Congress, but I’ve read the law (as I imagine most of you have by now), and it’s very short, concise, and straightforward, and as written, its violation in the current instance is certainly a possibility.

We won’t know until all the facts are known, if ever.

And ST, I’m very happy to have provided you the refreshment of learning that some of us on the left actually do care about our country and those who defend it! Many of us, maybe even most of us, in fact feel that we are at least as patriotic as any self-flag-draping so-called patriot on the right

G’nite
KG

I don’t remember any mini-Vietnams while Clinton was in charge. You think he “wimped out”; I think Bush is entirely too preoccupied with proving what big cojones he has, to the tune of 2000 and counting dead American troops.

But certainly, nailing Rove to the wall is a large part of it. Who plays a major role on shaping conservative policy today? The same policy that is tanking our credibility and our integrity as a nation? Three guesses, and the first two don’t count. Do you really want to be on the wrong side of history as bad as all that?

This is about nailing Karl Rove to the wall. Plain and simple. Joe Wilson was at least honest enough to admit that.

If what the CIA does is so serious [and it's refreshing to see so many Democrats wanting to "protect" the identity of CIA covert operatives], why isn’t it a serious matter to use an assignment with the CIA to spread misinformation about the President?

I’m disappointed in Mr. Fitzgerald.

That said, no one should lie to FBI investigators or a grand jury and if they do they should suffer the consequences.

So Scooter Libby has been indicted in what appears to be at an attempt by him to cover up a non-crime

Gee…what does that sound like? Bill Clinton lying about a perfectly legal relationship? Hmm. I’d like to think matters of national security are at least AS important as sex to you people, but perhaps not.