The ACLU brouhaha was only over schools that SPONSORED a Scout unit – and any organization that sponsors a Scout unit has to practice religious discrimination, because they are supposed to keep atheists out, and make sure that leaders of the unit subscribe to the BSA’s “Declaration of Religious Principle”.

Public schools can’t legally do that, because they are government entities and can’t discriminate on the basis of religous beliefs.

You can read the ACLU letter to the BSA and the BSA’s reply here. You’ll notice the BSA didn’t even try to fight this, because they knew public schools couldn’t legally sponsor packs and troops, because the BSA requires them to exclude atheists.

What was his lie? And if a majority thought the world was flat – was it?

Norah wrote, “and it does blow huge holes in your fantasy that everyone luvs Bush except a tiny band of miscreant liberal.

I never wrote about my fanstasy and you incorrectly think you know about my fantasy. (You are 100% wrong and I’m in the position to know what I think and know and fantasize about). It’s funny how liberals like yourself think you know what is in people’s heads. You talk about what we want, wish for, think, feel, know, etc easily and often.

PCD,

Norah, I don’t believe in the Liberal revisions to the Constitution. They’re written in invisible ink.

So do “liberal revisions” cover the Bill of Rights, too? I think you’ll find that the ink is quite easy to see.

Your interpretation of the constitution is different than mine. The words “separation of church and state” do not exist in the constitution. The first ammendment isn’t a commandment to the government to weed out anything religious in public buildings like schools. The reason why I tied it to polls is because most people think that phrase is there and… it isn’t.

Norah wrote, “So, Baklava, when Bush had aproval ratings in the 90’s after 9/11, does that mean he really didn’t? It must, according to the logic you’re using.

I try. Honestly Norah. I took a critical thinking class as one of my many humanities type classes in college and I just don’t know how you interpret things the way you do. — That isn’t an attack. What I said again was that just because a majority thinks Bush misled or lied or whatever the poll question was doesn’t mean that Bush lied. If it is simply a question of his popularity like you suggested, yes the poll is reflecting something worth saying. But to say that someone lied because a majority think he did DOESN’T MAKE IT TRUE as you were saying before. This is very simple logic that you questioned.

I just copied this from a post by Sandy on “The Right Politics” blog. Sandy didn’t leave a URL I could use. Forgive the cut and paste.

Roger Baldwin (a co-founder of the ACLU) said of the goals of the ACLU:
“I am for socialism, disarmament, and ultimately, for abolishing the state itself I seek social ownership of property, the abolition of the properties class, and sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal. I dont regret being part of the communist tactic. I knew what I was doing. I was not an innocent liberal. I wanted what the communists wanted, and I traveled the United Front road to get it.”

Try the Constitution AS WRITTEN for a change.

So, Baklava, when Bush had aproval ratings in the 90’s after 9/11, does that mean he really didn’t? It must, according to the logic you’re using. It’s funny how it doesn’t matter what the majority thinks…unless they agree with you, eh?

I’ve tried to helpful in that discussion by saying, “If most people thought the world was flat – is it flat” No.

If most people think that “separation of church and state” exist in our founding documents, it doesn’t.

It’s helpful to understand that polls aren’t an indication of what IS.

Uh, OK, not really sure how I got involved in this. But:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; “

To me, that suggests that there is to be no “official religion” of the United States; neither is there to be any prohibition of practicing one’s chosen religion, be it Christianity or Wicca.

And what is it that anti-ACLUers want, anyway? You claim the ACLU is anti-Christian-what does that actually mean to you? You’re mad that you can’t have the ten commandments in a public building? You need God in the Pledge of Allegiance? You think laws should be made based on biblical accuracy? It isn’t enough to just be a Christian? You have to force everybody else to worship Jesus too?

I respect Christianity as a religion, but I don’t respect those who use religion to club others into submission (act like me, talk like me, be like me or you’ll be sorry).

Neither are really honest in their debate. Dennis, just admit you are an ACLU supporter and activist, and that you are trying to dampen the raging and growing fire of public discontent with the ACLU and their ANTI-AMERICA lawsuits.

If you don’t care much about church-state issues, I really don’t care much who pays the ACLU’s bills as long as there’s no fraud, money-laundering or extortion involved. What I do care about is that somebody is out there fighting for at least a few people who otherwise would be defenseless, and relentlessly battling the unconstitutional commingling of government and religion. I certainly haven’t agreed with the ACLU’s priorities in every case, but am able to table my feelings on those because they have been doing an indispensible job in other areas.

The Avalon Project is where I referenced the quote in my prior post, I’m already familiar with it. If you disparage the history lesson please remember it’s not mine, but comes courtesy of James Madison, who devoted considerable energy to arguing why government has no place in religious affairs. They are arguments that will matter even more greatly in months to come.