Comments on: Whistleblower or leaker? http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/ Don't dis or dismiss this miss! Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:23:23 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: PCD http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/comment-page-1/#comment-68310 PCD Thu, 12 Jan 2006 14:49:17 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/#comment-68310 tommy, you are so full of crap. You Democrats are carping on Alito's past of more than 5 years ago. I think that makes all y'all Democrats a bunch of psychotic hypocrites. Now, I haven't seen any of you Democrats be at all consistent on the law. Maybe living by situational ethics all your lives has warped all y'all. tommy, you are so full of crap. You Democrats are carping on Alito’s past of more than 5 years ago. I think that makes all y’all Democrats a bunch of psychotic hypocrites.

Now, I haven’t seen any of you Democrats be at all consistent on the law. Maybe living by situational ethics all your lives has warped all y’all.

]]> By: Baklava http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/comment-page-1/#comment-68080 Baklava Thu, 12 Jan 2006 05:42:36 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/#comment-68080 Kenwg wrote, "<em>What's been reported in the media about the allegedly illegal spying</em> It aint illegal if it's "international" calls with terrorists that are being monitored. Clear language that I posted. I could be wrong and I applaud you for at LEAST using the word "allegedly". The rest of that post was more scaremongering by you. Kenwg wrote for some reason, "<em>but it seems you're saying the "whistle blower" should have waited to see if the wrongs were corrected.</em> Nope. The whistleblower shouldn't have whistleblown "<strong>illegally</strong>". He should've alerted the people who were supposed to be alerted. If he would've done that if something was done illegally the proper people could've taken the proper action without the terrorists having been alerted. Unfortunately the whistleblower broke the law and went to the New York Times and will go to jail and he has hurt national security. ON TOP OF THAT, the whistleblower seems to not have knows constitutional law very well and didn't know that the President has the right to monitor "international" communications and that isn't breaking the law. Kenwg wrote, "<em>When a clear pattern of willing and deliberate abuse is demonstrated with no indication that the abuser intends to stop, it's time to blow the whistle.</em> To the PROPER people. He broke the law (the whistleblower). Kenwg wrote, “What’s been reported in the media about the allegedly illegal spying

It aint illegal if it’s “international” calls with terrorists that are being monitored. Clear language that I posted. I could be wrong and I applaud you for at LEAST using the word “allegedly”. The rest of that post was more scaremongering by you.

Kenwg wrote for some reason, “but it seems you’re saying the “whistle blower” should have waited to see if the wrongs were corrected.

Nope. The whistleblower shouldn’t have whistleblown “illegally“. He should’ve alerted the people who were supposed to be alerted. If he would’ve done that if something was done illegally the proper people could’ve taken the proper action without the terrorists having been alerted. Unfortunately the whistleblower broke the law and went to the New York Times and will go to jail and he has hurt national security. ON TOP OF THAT, the whistleblower seems to not have knows constitutional law very well and didn’t know that the President has the right to monitor “international” communications and that isn’t breaking the law.

Kenwg wrote, “When a clear pattern of willing and deliberate abuse is demonstrated with no indication that the abuser intends to stop, it’s time to blow the whistle.

To the PROPER people. He broke the law (the whistleblower).

]]> By: Kenwg http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/comment-page-1/#comment-68072 Kenwg Thu, 12 Jan 2006 04:03:51 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/#comment-68072 Omapian, I'm not sure where you were going with your posts (after mine), but it seems you're saying the "whistle blower" should have waited to see if the wrongs were corrected. I agree, but only to a point. When a clear pattern of willing and deliberate abuse is demonstrated with no indication that the abuser intends to stop, it's time to blow the whistle. Of course the important question is "when is that point reached". We probably disagree on that - I could give a long list of reasons why I think the time was right, but you've probably already heard them all... But I do agree with you that it's always good to avoid jumping to conclusions, especially when national security is involved. Also, regarding the middle ground between "monitoring communications" and "sliding into a police state" - the middle ground is the slide. The time to step in - the middle ground - is before the police state is established; when the government, for example, begins acting as if it is above the law. Cordially, Ken G. Omapian,

I’m not sure where you were going with your posts (after mine), but it seems you’re saying the “whistle blower” should have waited to see if the wrongs were corrected. I agree, but only to a point. When a clear pattern of willing and deliberate abuse is demonstrated with no indication that the abuser intends to stop, it’s time to blow the whistle.

Of course the important question is “when is that point reached”. We probably disagree on that – I could give a long list of reasons why I think the time was right, but you’ve probably already heard them all…

But I do agree with you that it’s always good to avoid jumping to conclusions, especially when national security is involved.

Also, regarding the middle ground between “monitoring communications” and “sliding into a police state” – the middle ground is the slide. The time to step in – the middle ground – is before the police state is established; when the government, for example, begins acting as if it is above the law.

Cordially,

Ken G.

]]> By: omapian http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/comment-page-1/#comment-68071 omapian Thu, 12 Jan 2006 03:37:08 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/#comment-68071 We are not a great country because we have many laws ; our greatness is proportional to our consent to respect the rights and property of others. There are many unenforced laws, and poor legislation has resulted in poor practices, but we continue to consent to the rule of law. Rather than jump to any conclusions about the current whistle blower, wait for the facts that show where a right was violated and no action taken to correct the wrong. Don't be so quick to reject the law for fear of potential abuses. We are not a great country because we have many laws ; our greatness is proportional to our consent to respect the rights and property of others. There are many unenforced laws, and poor legislation has resulted in poor practices, but we continue to consent to the rule of law.
Rather than jump to any conclusions about the current whistle blower, wait for the facts that show where a right was violated and no action taken to correct the wrong. Don’t be so quick to reject the law for fear of potential abuses.

]]> By: omapian http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/comment-page-1/#comment-68068 omapian Thu, 12 Jan 2006 03:28:22 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/#comment-68068 Ken jumps from monitoring communications to sliding into a police state. Can there be no middle ground? Is it possible to protect privacy and public safety at the same time? And if the two are in conflict, do we need a Constitutional Amendment to direct our government agents to surrender safety to protect privacy. Until such amendment is ratified, the responsibility of our elected leaders should be as defined in the Constitution. Otherwise we have the very state of affairs Ken fears- a few elite unelected persons will make arbitrary decisions for the rest of us. It may be of interest that communications have been monitored by business concerns, media consultants, marketing tecnocrats, and of course hackers. This may or may not be legal, but it occurs. There are laws against murder, rape, robbery and assault, yet these crimes continue. Ken jumps from monitoring communications to sliding into a police state. Can there be no middle ground? Is it possible to protect privacy and public safety at the same time? And if the two are in conflict, do we need a Constitutional Amendment to direct our government agents to surrender safety to protect privacy.
Until such amendment is ratified, the responsibility of our elected leaders should be as defined in the Constitution. Otherwise we have the very state of affairs Ken fears- a few elite unelected persons will make arbitrary decisions for the rest of us.
It may be of interest that communications have been monitored by business concerns, media consultants, marketing tecnocrats, and of course hackers. This may or may not be legal, but it occurs. There are laws against murder, rape, robbery and assault, yet these crimes continue.

]]> By: Sister Toldjah http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/comment-page-1/#comment-68066 Sister Toldjah Thu, 12 Jan 2006 02:32:54 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/#comment-68066 Tommy: "Listen PCD Clinton left office 5 years ago do you hear us on the left bringing up watergate? Or Iran-contra. No?Why? Because it is history dude. Damn bro what's so hard to understand about that." ST: What are you talking about? This 'scandal' gets compared to Watergate everyday now. I take it you don't read much in the media and/or liberal blogs? And on Iran Contra, you better believe it still gets mentioned. Why is it that we can discuss Watergate, Reagan's "relationship" with Iraq, the Iran Contra scandal, and GHWB's ignoring of the gassing of the Kurds, yet Clinton is off limits?? I know I'd get tired of defending him too (because he is, for the most part, indefensible) but the man was president for 8 years and made decisions that affect us even today. Tommy: “Listen PCD Clinton left office 5 years ago do you hear us on the left bringing up watergate? Or Iran-contra. No?Why? Because it is history dude. Damn bro what’s so hard to understand about that.”

ST: What are you talking about? This ’scandal’ gets compared to Watergate everyday now. I take it you don’t read much in the media and/or liberal blogs? And on Iran Contra, you better believe it still gets mentioned. Why is it that we can discuss Watergate, Reagan’s “relationship” with Iraq, the Iran Contra scandal, and GHWB’s ignoring of the gassing of the Kurds, yet Clinton is off limits?? I know I’d get tired of defending him too (because he is, for the most part, indefensible) but the man was president for 8 years and made decisions that affect us even today.

]]> By: Kenwg http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/comment-page-1/#comment-68065 Kenwg Thu, 12 Jan 2006 02:10:02 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/#comment-68065 This is a good time to re-post these thoughts... "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759 "I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations."– James Madison The main thing that has made this the greatest country in the world are our constitutional guarantees of freedom of speech and thought; freedom from fear of the thought police breaking the door down in the middle of the night; freedom from the fear of disappearing into some unknown cell somewhere without representation or hearing. The possibility of this country sliding into a police state scares me a lot more than the possibility of any terrorist attack. Our society, our freedoms, will survive a terrorist attack. They won't survive a takeover by some self-anointed, self-righteous and self-serving ruling cabal. What's been reported in the media about the allegedly illegal spying seems to be a dangerous step in that direction, and I applaud the person who brought the actions into the sunshine. The Bush admin has perfected the art of scaring the people into giving him greater, more far-reaching and unprecedented power... a clear case of the "gradual and silent encroachments" referred to by Madison. More and more people are beginning to push back against the Bush crew's over-reaching grasp for power. It's about time. Cordially, Ken G This is a good time to re-post these thoughts…

“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

“I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.”– James Madison

The main thing that has made this the greatest country in the world are our constitutional guarantees of freedom of speech and thought; freedom from fear of the thought police breaking the door down in the middle of the night; freedom from the fear of disappearing into some unknown cell somewhere without representation or hearing.

The possibility of this country sliding into a police state scares me a lot more than the possibility of any terrorist attack. Our society, our freedoms, will survive a terrorist attack. They won’t survive a takeover by some self-anointed, self-righteous and self-serving ruling cabal.

What’s been reported in the media about the allegedly illegal spying seems to be a dangerous step in that direction, and I applaud the person who brought the actions into the sunshine. The Bush admin has perfected the art of scaring the people into giving him greater, more far-reaching and unprecedented power… a clear case of the “gradual and silent encroachments” referred to by Madison.

More and more people are beginning to push back against the Bush crew’s over-reaching grasp for power. It’s about time.

Cordially,

Ken G

]]> By: Camp Katrina http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/comment-page-1/#comment-68059 Camp Katrina Thu, 12 Jan 2006 01:40:23 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/#comment-68059 <strong>Blog Roundup</strong> Every weekday, Camp Katrina lists a handful of exceptional posts from blogs that have recently referred traffic back to us. Go check them out, Katrina Campers! Whistleblower or leaker? (Sister Toldjah): . . . It seems to me that the Blog Roundup

Every weekday, Camp Katrina lists a handful of exceptional posts from blogs that have recently referred traffic back to us. Go check them out, Katrina Campers! Whistleblower or leaker? (Sister Toldjah): . . . It seems to me that the

]]> By: omapian http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/comment-page-1/#comment-68058 omapian Thu, 12 Jan 2006 01:01:29 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/#comment-68058 Unfortunately, lacking facts causes some to assign motives to an action. That descends into ad hominem attacks. Take a moment to realize there is no kind word in the English language for a "Whistleable" and legislatures have seen fit to create laws to protect individuals who chose to expose wrongdoing. Children learn early to not be a tattletale and adults reinforce the behavior with 'stool pigeon' or 'informer.' The NSA leaker claims to have inside information about potential criminal actions--- but so far makes no claim that a person's privacy has been violated. He tells of the ability to monitor messages independent of the messenger. When messages suggested a threat, presumably an agent would examine the data and identify the sender. Harmless messages could be stored and linked with other harmless messages to describe a pattern that may eventually uncover a threat to public safety. The government claims this data mining has thwarted terrorist attacks. The NY Times there is a potential for abuse. But there are insufficient facts to support either side of the argument. If a person's privacy has been violated by this conduct, the public would know as the MSM has been searching for a legitimate victim to appear. Lacking a victim, perhaps one should look to the language of the Constitution which directs government to provide for the common defense. When the specific language of the Constitution conflicts with the penumbra right to privacy, the reasonable man may prefer to have his life protected and leave the legal arguments to intellectuals. Unfortunately, lacking facts causes some to assign motives to an action. That descends into ad hominem attacks.
Take a moment to realize there is no kind word in the English language for a “Whistleable” and legislatures have seen fit to create laws to protect individuals who chose to expose wrongdoing. Children learn early to not be a tattletale and adults reinforce the behavior with ’stool pigeon’ or ‘informer.’
The NSA leaker claims to have inside information about potential criminal actions— but so far makes no claim that a person’s privacy has been violated. He tells of the ability to monitor messages independent of the messenger. When messages suggested a threat, presumably an agent would examine the data and identify the sender. Harmless messages could be stored and linked with other harmless messages to describe a pattern that may eventually uncover a threat to public safety.
The government claims this data mining has thwarted terrorist attacks. The NY Times there is a potential for abuse. But there are insufficient facts to support either side of the argument.
If a person’s privacy has been violated by this conduct, the public would know as the MSM has been searching for a legitimate victim to appear.
Lacking a victim, perhaps one should look to the language of the Constitution which directs government to provide for the common defense. When the specific language of the Constitution conflicts with the penumbra right to privacy, the reasonable man may prefer to have his life protected and leave the legal arguments to intellectuals.

]]> By: CavalierX http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/comment-page-1/#comment-68056 CavalierX Thu, 12 Jan 2006 00:40:37 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/#comment-68056 >Intent. It all hinges on intent. Heh. Yeah, the intent of the media. >Intent. It all hinges on intent.

Heh. Yeah, the intent of the media.

]]> By: Neal B http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/comment-page-1/#comment-68047 Neal B Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:05:47 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/#comment-68047 Good idea 4thelittleguy. Time for everyone to take a chill-pill! :"> Good idea 4thelittleguy. Time for everyone to take a chill-pill! :">

]]> By: 4thelittleguy http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/comment-page-1/#comment-68046 4thelittleguy Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:02:33 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/#comment-68046 Sounds like everyone in here needs to stop for a moment and take a deep breath. Read Fat Tone's comment, maybe it will cheer you up. Sounds like everyone in here needs to stop for a moment and take a deep breath.

Read Fat Tone’s comment, maybe it will cheer you up.

]]> By: tommy in nyc http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/comment-page-1/#comment-67986 tommy in nyc Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:37:32 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/#comment-67986 Listen PCD Clinton left office 5 years ago do you hear us on the left bringing up watergate? Or Iran-contra. No?Why? Because it is history dude. Damn bro what's so hard to understand about that. Listen PCD Clinton left office 5 years ago do you hear us on the left bringing up watergate? Or Iran-contra. No?Why? Because it is history dude. Damn bro what’s so hard to understand about that.

]]> By: PCD http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/comment-page-1/#comment-67975 PCD Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:32:09 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/#comment-67975 tommy, you have a double standard. You're the one who needs to be real. Bet you didn't say negative word about Craig Livingstone, the bar bouncer the Clintons hired who ordered up 900 FBI files on Republicans. You were probably real outraged at the FBI guy who told the country about Livingstone and the illegalities going on at the Clinton White House. I think you need to focus on your self. If you can't hack support wrong and losing views, time to change or start drinking the Kool-aid. tommy, you have a double standard. You’re the one who needs to be real. Bet you didn’t say negative word about Craig Livingstone, the bar bouncer the Clintons hired who ordered up 900 FBI files on Republicans. You were probably real outraged at the FBI guy who told the country about Livingstone and the illegalities going on at the Clinton White House.

I think you need to focus on your self. If you can’t hack support wrong and losing views, time to change or start drinking the Kool-aid.

]]> By: tommy in nyc http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/comment-page-1/#comment-67942 tommy in nyc Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:14:18 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/01/11/whistleblower-or-leaker/#comment-67942 PCD give it a rest dude. Rove is being investigated they don't have enough to charge him so he's a free man. As far as the firing part his boss said that anyone involved in this scandal will be fired. Yeah the President said that if I recall. 43 didn't say to the American public I'll only fire any member of my staff who gets indicted He said He'd fire anyone involved. That's the fact Jack. PCD give it a rest dude. Rove is being investigated they don’t have enough to charge him so he’s a free man. As far as the firing part his boss said that anyone involved in this scandal will be fired. Yeah the President said that if I recall. 43 didn’t say to the American public I’ll only fire any member of my staff who gets indicted He said He’d fire anyone involved. That’s the fact Jack.

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