Until you refute substance anything you say is discounted. You cannot simply wave your hand and act like all of thier substance complete with bibliography’s based on facts are not true. You offer whimsical opinion based rhetoric not based on facts with no links and any links you have to offer will be dealt with just like you did. You either treat people respectfully or you will be treated with no respect or credebility. You either make serious charges that are untrue in a time of war or you realize personal responsibility and due diligence in researching the facts. I’ve read tons (1,000’s) of pages of information from both sides. I used to be like you. I don’t need to deal with folks like you who don’t offer substantive debate and wave hands of dismissal and make serious erroneous judgemental allegations/accusations. Bye.

BTW, Libertarians are extreme !! Conservatives are centrist. On a scale of -10 to +10 Liberals are near -8 to -5. Conservatives are between -1 to +2 and libertarians are about a +8 because they want an 80% cut in government. Cutting government to the tune of 80% would really throw the left in a tizzy. And the fact is that government has grown every year for over 6 decades. How in the heck do you think it’ll shrink by a factor of 80% anytime soon?

The basics are attainable to the vast majority of americans.

I refuted your charge with substantive work by the Heritage Foundation that shows that the average poor American has a better standard of living than the average European. Our poor have it better than their average. Read and weap or discount. Your choice. I’m done. You can continue to be down on American. Peace.

I have never been impressed with info from the Heritage Foundation. Sorry. Research for rich people by rich people generally holds alot too much bias to be accurate.

Great info at firstgov…census bureau,d.o.l, i.r.s, g.a.o ect. Between FirstGov and the Library of Congress you could read nothing but facts for the rest of your life. It’s staggering.

I thought you liked to study.
If you want people to give credibility to your postion you have to learn to go to the source for your info.
Anyone can regurgitate someone elses work.

And my query was not about poor people. I am not sure how you got there.

And I believe you gave a fair answer outside the attached reports.

And the answer is clear. That what I call “the basics” is not realistically attainable for the vast majority of Americans. I guess that’s why they refer to it as a dream.

What’s with all this “American left” business.
I am a Libertarian just like you.
Are Libertarians now left and liberal?

The average annual wage for each American has gone up. No need to attack me to get the answer. I was reading about it last night.

The average American may or may not be able to afford the American dream but it also is imperative on each American’s part to spend wisely. As more than 51% of Ford Expedition buyers are single without kids and don’t need it for snow or 4 wheeling you can see what I mean. I don’t attack those Americans as the American left would I only recognize that people’s decisions result in consequences. People need to have personal responsibility. I had friends who were liberal and bought a new house and 2 new cars and had a kid and wanted government to provide them daycare. At the time I was married with children and “we” were sacrificing with just one income and not buying a bunch of new stuff.

You won’t afford everything in the first few years after college. That’s never been the case. We have become an IMMEDIATE gratification type society. We want everything and want it now. You want to know where I get numbers from. From responsible people who have extensive bibliography’s citing lots of governemnt sources. And it all adds up with common sense

Who are the poor

Scorecard on the economy

I know you like to brag about how smart you are and how much you educate yourself by visiting your local library. But what I have not heard from you is any thing regarding the “increased tax revenue” in ratio to inflation and the average annual wage for each American. This is the true test of economic growth because it represents the buying or commerce power of the average American.

Can the average American afford the American dream? House, 2.5 children, 2 vehicles, insurance, pension, college funds and 2 vacation per year. The Basics.

I am not making any statements but I am extremely curious where in the world you get numbers from.

And what do you think causes those “increased trade and incorporations” steve? Could it be, oh, decreased taxes leading to a stronger economy? So, you say 185 billion was lost, so what, the economy has a certain fidicuary inertia, it takes time for a tax cut to stimulate the economy.

But hey, it’s all about ideology with you aint’ it? It’s morally wrong to let the evil rich keep their money, and if that leads to reduced tax revenues as compared with lowering taxes, well, that’s alright if it punishes the successful.

Lying isn’t ethical Steve. But then, the end justifies the means for you and your ilk doesn’t it?

Decreasing taxes has increased revenues everytime it’s been done, even when Kennedy did it. Reagan did it. Bush is doing it now. But then, to many on the left it’s morally wrong to let some “evil rich” person (meaning someone more successful and ambitious and harder working then they are) keep their money.

Do you have any evidence that boosting tax rates helps people Steve? How does keeping more of what they earn help people, help employment rates, etc.

Blogagog is actually a combination of words from different cultures. “Blo” is a greek word meaning “this is” or “the item in question is”. “Ga” is yiddish for “very dumb” or “idiotic”. “Gog” is from the ancient Sumerian word “goga”, meaning “nickname”.

(Some information in this post may not be entirely accurate )

I was to young to vote in 1980. But tragically in 1984 i voted for what’s his name democrat. In 88 I voted for the other what’s his name democrat, and then in 92 i voted for the goof ball independant. Didn’t vote in 96 or 00. As I didn’t see a good canidate. I was wrong I voted for GW in 04. Which I am pretty proud of. – Lorica

I learn new things about people everyday. I thought you were an extremist Lorica!