Over 12 times. Yet folks say, “no oversight”.

CB wrote, “Where do I find this information…I mean relative to the senate being briefed on this? Is there a record of it somewhere?

Go to WhiteHouse.gov. It’s in his speech a few days after the New York Times leaked it (a speech that I listened to). He said 12 times in his speech. In days following there were Democrats who admitted they were briefed but acted like they had problems with the information.

CB asked, “Additionally, Baklava, what are you scared of?

Scared of people misinforming others. I write here to correct folks like you. Propoganda gets 1/2 way around the world before truth gets its boots on.

CB wrote, “Don’t argue just to be arguementative

That’d be a waste of my time. I’m trying to help you and others understand because knowldege is power.

CB wrote, “If you have in fact spent 3 days a week in the library for the last year

That was in 1991 during my conversion. Since then the Internet became available. Between 1991 and 1995 (when I got my Internet connection) I had a few magazine subscriptions like the Atlantic Monthly, National Review and the American Spectator.

CB wrote, “why not use that knowledge to inform others of their rights and duties as US citizens

I am. You seem to disagree with my message. But I am.

CB wrote in it’s entirety so not to be accused of taking a snippet, “Also…I’ll say it again. I’m no bush basher. If I wanted to bash bush this stuff wouldn’t be where I’d start. Bashing a president…well, regardless of who he is, isn’t hard. It’s a tough job in and of itself and when you pile on the scrutiny…point being you don’t have to look very hard to find gripes as would be the case for any of us if we were in the same position. My only, I repeat only agenda here is defending the constitution and attempting to motivate others to do likewise.

My agenda here is defending the constitution and attempting to motivate others to do likewise also. Your interpretation of what the president has the authority to do is disagreed with by quite a few constitutional experts (not to be aired by CNN) and my reading of their work lends me to agree with their intrepretation and understand that what you write is incorrect.

I’m truly flattered. But I think you are usually more on point than myself.

Where do I find this information…I mean relative to the senate being briefed on this? Is there a record of it somewhere?

Additionally, Baklava, what are you scared of? Rather than commenting on snippits of my commentary that you disagree with or aren’t technically 100% correct, why not promote the things you do agree with? Don’t argue just to be arguementative. And relative to,

“No need to attack anyone here as needing to learn it generally.”

How do I make it any clearer than by saying ” For the person that noted that they had studied the issues from both sides, good for you! You are rare.” How is that an attack? It was meant as a complement. If you have in fact spent 3 days a week in the library for the last year, why not use that knowledge to inform others of their rights and duties as US citizens? Are you afraid that they might not think exactly as you? I hope not…you seem to be an intelligent individual. It just seems that you are more bent on argueing than rolling your sleeves up and doing something. (And for the record…if you are going to quote me please try to use the entire thought rather than just the few words that suit your purpose.)

BTW: Hydroxyapetite is the hardest substance in the human body, if you are brushing so hard that you are “destroying it” ease up…it’s overkill.

- Bang

- The President is obviously enjoying this latest transparent phoney “protecting liberties” screed. As he said today; “Why pass a law that, if it tries to prevent me from doing my duties, will just be shown to be unconstitutional”.

- Zero and 16 Liberalcrats, and Congressional elections are just around the corner. So by all means, stay in the BDS mode, and keep on truckin’.

- What I want to know is when is Usama going to sign on as keynote speaker at the DNC or the Press Club, now that he’s a registered Democrat. *snicker*

- Bang

CB you mention that there should be some sort of oversight, but the Senate is given a report I believe every 90 days.

I hear alot of yammering from people who don’t seem to read more into what FISA entails. President Bush has narrowed what they can essentially tap as International calls, calls coming or going out of the US. This domestic spying mis-information is what is spread by the media because they see essentially one of the persons monitored is in the US while the other is a suspected terrorist out of the US borders. They are wrong. These are INTERNATIONAL calls being monitored, not Domestic Calls. The President has said this many times, the Senate knows about it and gets regular reports on it (though they act like they don’t).

The difference between what our previous president Clinton did and what this President Bush is doing now is that Clinton WAS doing Domestic Spying (calls made in the US to others in the US) while President Bush narrowed that to International ONLY.

You mean your complacency in not finding ou the truth? There is no complacency here on my end.

CB wrote, “I
would bet that you would be hard pressed to find any of your personal friends that are as well versed as you

Yep. I have liberal coworkers, neighbors and friends who aren’t as well versed as me. In fact they continue to get the facts wrong with almost every sentence. It’s part of a lifetime of being misinformed by CNN, CBS, ABS, NBC. I once was a liberal until 1991 when I went to the library 3 times a week for a full year. I had a complete core change. While I do admit that there are some kneejerk conservatives who haven’t studied the issue, at least they fall down on the right side of the issue.

CB wrote, “) it’s about precedent. NOW it’s terrorists, what will it be tomorrow?

CB wrote, “Which as far as I can tell…does not exist.

It does. Sorry you didn’t read about that in your news stories.

CB wrote, “for those of you that are that willing to give up your liberties for security….

Liberty to what? Have international calls with terrorists during a time of war? Not only am I willing to give up that “liberty”, I want the government to use me as a tool to catch the terrorist or hear the coming terrorist action. Aren’t you?

CB wrote, “LEARN THE CONSTITUTION

I have. I have my own copy in my master bedrroom wear I’m typing this right now. No need to attack anyone here as needing to learn it generally.

CB wrote, “demand accountability from your representative

I am. I’m demanding that my representatives do not unconstitutionally try to limit the power of the president in a time of war to wage war against the enemy. I’m demanding that the representative stop lying about the international calls calling them domestic calls. On phone bills it’s called “international” for a reason. I’m demanding that the representatives and ex-vice presidents like Al Gore stop saying that Bush broke laws when he hasn’t. I’m demanding that the debate get back to civility which I’m afraid with liberals may be impossible. CB do you think it is impossible or will you call for Al Gore and representatives to stop their incorrect accusational rhetoric?

CB wrote, “Knowledge is power. Use it!

Yes. Use it!

Additionally, the issue is not conversations with terrorists, (and we can argue the semantics of
republic-democracy all you want…the idea remains the same) it’s about precedent. NOW it’s
terrorists, what will it be tomorrow? Now the terrorists associated with al Qaida, who will the be
tomorrow?

Look I am sorry if some of you were offended about what I said. Unfortunately decided to argue
semantics to try to discredit me rather than the overall point which was the reason our system
works or has worked (most would argue better than any other in the history of mankind) is
because the power to govern ultimately resides in the people and today it is blatantly obvious that
the VAST majority ( not you of course ) could give a rat’s ass about anything except their own
nose. I am sick and tired of hearing words like “trust me” and “I know what’s best” and so on,
meanwhile most of these guys are sipping champagne with fact cat lobbyists really deciding
“what’s best”.

Now, once again. This issue is not with the wire tapping specifically. I agree, if you are involved
IN ANY WAY with people or groups that are IN ANY WAY planning to harm innocent people
FOR ANY REASON…you not only deserve to have your tits kicked, but should count on having
your tits kicked because the American people will not stand for it. That said, my issue is that the
way it is being done now is not right. There HAS to be some sort of oversight! Some sort of
check. Some sort of protection from abuse. Which as far as I can tell…does not exist. That’s all.

And overall, for those of you that are that willing to give up your liberties for security….I have
and idea, stop driving your cars. The odds of you being killed or injured driving your car in a
single day are far greater than the odds of you ever being personally effected by a terrorist!
Sorry…didn’t mean to attack anyone personally. I just ask that people pull their heads out of the
sand and GET INVOLVED. VOTE….LEARN THE CONSTITUTION….LEARN THE BILL
OF RIGHTS….demand accountability from your representatives, because at the end of the day, if
you aren’t willing to stand up for your rights…well you fill in the rest.

And those of you that do know and do these things, without political bias, motivate others to
learn about and participate in these things. There are far better people among us, far more capable of leading than
what we currently have in office…all areas..not just the executive, perhaps even some of you
reading this thread would qualify, but because of complacency and outright ignorance we are in
danger of becoming a nation of sheep led by wolves.

As I said before, my intent is not to tell anyone WHAT TO THINK, but indeed just simply…to think….wonder…
educate yourselves.
Knowledge is power. Use it!

CB funnily wrote, “For over two hundred years now, spying on U.S. citizens without a warrant has been unacceptable…for any reason.

Tell that to all the preceeding presidents including FDR, Clinton, Kennedy. Just because you wrote it doesn’t make it true.

CB continued with, “he is also asking us to give up a very precious personal liberty, our right to privacy

You have a very precious personal liberty to have international communications with Al Qaida? Assert that all you want. I’d wnat to be used as a tool to identify terrorists. Put me on the phone and listen to me talk to these terrorists!!

CB wrote, “In the end, is has never been the responsibility of the American Citizen to blindly follow their political leaders.

I take that as an incorrect accusation. I’ve read both sides on this argument and probably over 100 articles on this subject alone from constitutional law experts and FISA experts, etc. I do not blindly follow Bush and for you to insinuate such raises the question “when will you apologize”? (Not that I think you will or need one – I’ve dealt with your kind far too many times – I used to be one also)

CB wrote, “ People, the 4th ammendment guarantees YOUR right to a reasonable expectation of privacy. Notice drug dealers who are citizens of this country have reasonably not been able to expect privacy for some time.

CB asked the question “So I ask why are so many of you so willing to let something as precious as your freedom…even a tiny amount of it go so easily?

You mean the freedom to talk on an international call with a terrorist without being listened to? Because I want the terrorists taken in or killed. Do you?

I built ‘em…