Rep. J.D. Hayworth: Immigrants need to embrace U.S. culture

Everytime I’ve seen Rep. J.D. Hayworth (R-AZ-5th district) interviewed many times in the past on Fox News and have been extremely impressed with his go-get-’em-tell-it-like-it-is style of talking. A fine example of that can be found here in an opinion piece he wrote for the Arizona Republic newspaper on muliculturalism and how we’ve gotten away from assimilation here over the years – and are moving closer towards grouping ourselves in terms of race, religious beliefs, etc. He’s not advancing an idea of losing our individuality in order for some ‘collective good’, but instead harking back to the days when immigrants who came here became Americans – not just people from another country moving here to live:

Assimilation is the key to any successful immigration policy, and no country has succeeded in assimilating immigrants as well as the United States. Turning immigrants into Americans didn’t happen by accident but was the result of a comprehensive national effort called Americanization.

Sadly, Americanization has given way to an insidious multiculturalism. In the mid-1980s, the late Alistair Cooke, himself an immigrant, lamented the “general movement in the United States to unmelt the melting pot, to break down the goulash of the pot into its ethnic ingredients: to return, in short, to the immigrant compounds which Teddy Roosevelt was determined to fuse into one nation.”

With each passing day America is becoming more divided by ethnicity, race, language and income, a situation only exacerbated by illegal immigration. We all had a good laugh when Al Gore mangled the translation of E pluribus unum. “Out of one, many,” he goofed. But maybe he was just ahead of his time.

Hispanic immigrants have a harder time assimilating than other groups largely because the flood of illegal immigrants reinforces cultural and linguistic connections to “the old country.” It doesn’t help that they are force-fed a steady diet of multiculturalism and told by their own community leaders and our own anti-American elites that America is racist, sexist, intolerant and genocidal. And make no mistake, multiculturalism is the enemy of assimilation, and it can have devastating consequences, as we saw with riots outside Paris and the subway bombers in London.

Read the whole thing. This guy gets it.

Sidenote: Hayworth also has a book titled What It Takes: Illegal Immigration, Border Security and the War on Terror that looks like it would be well-worth reading. Guess I’ll be adding another book to my reading list

(Cross-posted at California Conservative)

86 Responses to "Rep. J.D. Hayworth: Immigrants need to embrace U.S. culture"

ArizonaTeach says:

January 28, 2006 at 11:58 pm

Yeah…J. D. Hayworth…I’m a little upset at him, because he decided not to run for Governor this year, and he would have been the best bet to knock out our Democratic Wicked Witch.

Oh well, I like the guy, although he doesn’t get ANY respect from the print and television media out here (but radio LOVES the guy…hell, I hear him on Hannity almost as much as I hear him on the local stations out here).
Lorica says:

January 29, 2006 at 12:19 am

Yes they do, if for no other reason than for emergency situations. It would be nice if some of these folk could answer some of the EMT’s questions. I love their cultures, but lets get some intergration for the day to day needs in this life. – Lorica
steve says:

January 29, 2006 at 11:53 am

The only thing this guy ever got right was the fact that he was killing himself by being grossly obese. So rather then using self-disipline to stop stuffing food into his big mouth with his stubby, money stained fingers, he had most of his stomach removed surgically. Loser. Peace
Baklava says:

January 29, 2006 at 12:20 pm

That one was above and beyone your normal lack of personal responsibility…

Should be an apology for that one. Do you have a conscience?
andrew says:

January 29, 2006 at 12:37 pm

“Rep. J.D. Hayworth: Immigrants need to embrace U.S. culture”

Like Irish Pubs, Kielbasas, and Gyro sandwiches.
steve says:

January 29, 2006 at 4:02 pm

No, like the ethics of Abramoff and working for the wealty as maids and gardeners. Peace
ArizonaTeach says:

January 29, 2006 at 11:30 pm

Yeah. Hey steve, you keep using the word “peace.” I do not think it means what you think it means. They way you use it is bordering a little too close to starting a scathing, obscene, personal attack on someone, but prefacing it with, “no offense, BUT…” Why don’t you tell us, pray tell, what J.D. Hayworth has done WRONG before you spit out more venom about what you claim he has done “right?”

Peace Out, Homes.
Hull says:

January 30, 2006 at 1:44 pm

Talk of assimilation and the “immigrant threat” from the right is usually an attempt to pander to the racist element within the Republican party.

Talk of state’s rights, anti-affirmative action, anti-immigration, anti political correctness, is generally a fancy way of saying that America is for white people and screw everybody else.

The Washington Post points to a study that indicates that political leanings to the right in this country tend to indicate racial bias.

Study Ties Political Leanings to Hidden Biases

LINK

By Shankar Vedantam
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, January 30, 2006; Page A05

Put a group of people together at a party and observe how they behave. Differently than when they are alone? Differently than when they are with family? What if they’re in a stadium instead of at a party? What if they’re all men?

The field of social psychology has long been focused on how social environments affect the way people behave. But social psychologists are people, too, and as the United States has become increasingly politically polarized, they have grown increasingly interested in examining what drives these sharp divides: red states vs. blue states; pro-Iraq war vs. anti-Iraq war; pro-same-sex marriage vs. anti-same-sex marriage. And they have begun to study political behavior using such specialized tools as sophisticated psychological tests and brain scans.

“In my own family, for example, there are stark differences, not just of opinion but very profound differences in how we view the world,” said Brenda Major, a psychologist at the University of California at Santa Barbara and the president of the Society for Personality and Social Psychology, which had a conference last week that showcased several provocative psychological studies about the nature of political belief.

The new interest has yielded some results that will themselves provoke partisan reactions: Studies presented at the conference, for example, produced evidence that emotions and implicit assumptions often influence why people choose their political affiliations, and that partisans stubbornly discount any information that challenges their preexisting beliefs.

Emory University psychologist Drew Westen put self-identified Democratic and Republican partisans in brain scanners and asked them to evaluate negative information about various candidates. Both groups were quick to spot inconsistency and hypocrisy — but only in candidates they opposed.

When presented with negative information about the candidates they liked, partisans of all stripes found ways to discount it, Westen said. When the unpalatable information was rejected, furthermore, the brain scans showed that volunteers gave themselves feel-good pats — the scans showed that “reward centers” in volunteers’ brains were activated. The psychologist observed that the way these subjects dealt with unwelcome information had curious parallels with drug addiction as addicts also reward themselves for wrong-headed behavior.

Another study presented at the conference, which was in Palm Springs, Calif., explored relationships between racial bias and political affiliation by analyzing self-reported beliefs, voting patterns and the results of psychological tests that measure implicit attitudes — subtle stereotypes people hold about various groups.

That study found that supporters of President Bush and other conservatives had stronger self-admitted and implicit biases against blacks than liberals did.

“What automatic biases reveal is that while we have the feeling we are living up to our values, that feeling may not be right,” said University of Virginia psychologist Brian Nosek, who helped conduct the race analysis. “We are not aware of everything that causes our behavior, even things in our own lives.”

Please do not post entire articles (copyright considerations). Thanks – ST.
PCD says:

January 30, 2006 at 2:05 pm

Hull, I have noticed that most Liberals are racists. They define everything by race and use race in their reasoning for apportioning rights. Liberals even use race in determing “blame”.

You really want to hear foaming at the mouth racism, listen to a liberal react to a Black Conservative standing up and expressing their conservative views.

The only more vile things I hear coming out of a Liberal’s mouth is when a Black woman marries a white man.
Sister Toldjah says:

January 30, 2006 at 2:05 pm

Hull: “Talk of assimilation and the “immigrant threat” from the right is usually an attempt to pander to the racist element within the Republican party.

Talk of state’s rights, anti-affirmative action, anti-immigration, anti political correctness, is generally a fancy way of saying that America is for white people and screw everybody else.

The Washington Post points to a study that indicates that political leanings to the right in this country tend to indicate racial bias.”

ST: Hmmm – now weren’t you trying to convince us in another thread, Hull, that you weren’t a liberal?

If you think talk of assimiliation has to do with racism, you better think again, pal. Why is it everytime a Republican talks about anything having to do with race you guys start playing the race card? Answer: you need the votes. 92% of black people who voted for Democrats in the last election. You guys are already having a hard time winning elections as it is so anything you can do to keep the black vote stays on the table – including rampant race baiting where prominent Democrats like Charlie Rangel demagogue the hell out of racial issues while the party heads like Howard Dean let it pass without much, if any comment. Yet when a Republican even mentions the word black, there are calls from people like Howard Dean for “apologies” and the like and nine times out of ten Republicans will bend over backwards to make sure the black community knows they weren’t trying to be racist with whatever the offending comment might have been.

So don’t come here to this blog, and think you’ve got a leg up on anyone on the race issue because of a stupid survey – you might want to take a look at your own backyard before you start messing in someone else’s. Republicans have worked hard over the years to erase their image as a party of racists, yet the black Democrats in your party continue to get away with it because no one will call them on it.

Honest discussions in this country on racism and immigration are hard to have thanks to people like you, who want to perpetuate the myth that the Republican party is full of little more than Sheets Byrd types. Get a clue!
GBA says:

January 30, 2006 at 2:10 pm

ST,

I have never known anyone who despises the race card as much as you do. Interesting point of view considering your locale.

In your opinion is civil rights a good thing or a waste of time?
Hull says:

January 30, 2006 at 2:23 pm

Wow.

First of all, I am a PROGRESSIVE LIBERAL and have never claimed to be anything else. I’d like to see a quote where I stated otherwise.

Second, the reason liberals claim that conservative and Republicans since 1968 are racist is because history has shown that to be true.

The Southern Strategy? David Duke? Strom Thermond? The Willie Horton commercials? Jesse Helms?

How many Democrat Klu Klux Klan members are there today?

If people think Republicans are racist it’s your own fault.

Ken Mehlman YOUR RNC Chief acknowledged your checkered history, why can’t you?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/13/AR2005071302342.html

RNC Chief to Say It Was ‘Wrong’ to Exploit Racial Conflict for Votes

By Mike Allen

Thursday, July 14, 2005; Page A04

It was called “the southern strategy,” started under Richard M. Nixon in 1968, and described Republican efforts to use race as a wedge issue — on matters such as desegregation and busing — to appeal to white southern voters.

Ken Mehlman, the Republican National Committee chairman, this morning will tell the NAACP national convention in Milwaukee that it was “wrong.”
Hull says:

January 30, 2006 at 2:26 pm

As to the argument that it’s really the liberals who are racist. I’ll take the lesser of two evils any day.

Let’s see should I pick the party that at least pays lip service to the effort to ameliorate historical injustice and inequality

or

the Klu Klux Klan, Minutemen, Anti Civil Rights Party?

Tough Call.
PCD says:

January 30, 2006 at 2:34 pm

Hull, your blind partisanship is telling. Without the GOP, the 1964 Civil Rights Act would have never passed. The Democrats were blocking it. Specifically Sen. Fulbrighte, Clinton’s mentor, and Sen. Albert Gore, Sr. History didn’t begin at the top of your Democrat talking points paper, Hull.
GBA says:

January 30, 2006 at 2:36 pm

Hull,

Monsterous hat tip.
Well constructed. Nice Job.
PCD says:

January 30, 2006 at 2:40 pm

GBA, you aren’t a Libertarian. Only Liberals BELIEVE that Minorities can get nowhere with out the help of the White liberal.
Hull says:

January 30, 2006 at 2:46 pm

I’ll be the first to acknowledge that the GOP WAS the party of Lincoln up until the re-alignment in 1968.

But what about that little 30 YEAR PERIOD between now and then?

Ken Mehlman appologized to the NAACP last year because the GOP has been such a luminary in the race and civil rights? Uh no.

The funny thing is when Republicans try to either pretend that the last 30 years didn’t happen (Ronald Reagan at Stone Moutain?) or even funnier that Democrats are racist too.

Here’s a former Democrat turned Repub providing some insightful comments on race relations in the U.S.:

“I want to say this about my state: When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We’re proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn’t have had all these problems over all these years, either.”

Thanks for the tip Trent Lott. How’s that career working out now anyway?
GBA says:

January 30, 2006 at 2:50 pm

No PCD,

I think that minorities should arm themselves and demand equality from a rascist community. I think they should take to the streets with as many weapons as they can carry and take equality by force if need be. Playing games with segregationist and civil right liberals is highly overated.
Baklava says:

January 30, 2006 at 2:52 pm

Hull Those who are for preferential treatment are “racist”.. (in my opinion).

Hull started his first 2 paragraphs in his 1:44 post with attacks and accusations. The usual pattern.

ST wrote, “Hmmm – now weren’t you trying to convince us in another thread, Hull, that you weren’t a liberal?

I had him pegged after his 10th accusation/talking point. To be so badly misinformed and believe that conservatives are evil etc. is funny to watch a liberal say (to a point) because we’ve been through it and have converted from liberalism. But when you try to engage and deliever facts to some (like Hull) they turn off their ears and continue on with their LAUNDRY LIST. The problem with the liberal laundry lists of accusations is a) you have to settle down on one to get deep into it and actually discuss it b) they use it to divert and throw more condescension at us.

These kinds of liberals who have the laundry lists and condescension actually believe the 1/2 of America who are conservative are evil, racist, anti-environment, sexist, etc. For having so much “tolerance”, I’d expect that they could actually treat us like human beings and talk to us like human beings and engage in a civil discussion of ideas as opposed to launching with their laundry lists of accusations.

GBA wrote, “Interesting point of view considering your locale.

Funny. I lived in VA for 21 years and CA for 14. CA by far has way more racist people (in my opinion). A whole lot more nicer and kinder and warm people in VA and North Carolina. The funnier thing is that you had to ask, “In your opinion is civil rights a good thing or a waste of time? It shows the view of the leftist concerning a conservative because of their ingrained view of conservatives and inability to dialog with us on a civil level. Why is it you can’t actually believe we care? Why is it that you keep reading the filth you read and actually believe it? Why is it that I converted from liberalism and you haven’t yet? Why is it that you have so much disdain that you had to ask that question?

I suggest that Hull and GBA should pick up a copy of “Creating Equal” by Ward Connerly. I read it in a few days and it’s a great read. I think both of your minds have been polluted with so much garbage that you think are TRUMP cards to use against us here on this blog that it is almost worthless dialoging with you.
Hull says:

January 30, 2006 at 2:53 pm

While we’re on the subject of Trent Lott’s support for white supremecy and racial segregation I beleive Wikipedia makes an interesting note about liberal bias in the MSM:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trent_Lott#Controversy_and_resignation

“Since Thurmond had explicitly supported racial segregation in the presidential campaign to which Lott referred, this statement was widely interpreted to mean that Lott also supported racial segregation, or at best, that Lott did not feel Thurmond’s past support for white supremacy was sufficient reason not to vote for him.

At first, the comment, broadcast on C-SPAN, was largely ignored by the mainstream media but was widely discussed on political blogs such as Josh Marshall’s Talking Points Memo, which also uncovered Lott’s history of actively supporting segregation during college and making similar statements at various points throughout his career. Five days later the story was picked up by all the major news networks, and repeated and discussed extensively.”

Yeah, the MSM is always the first to tear down a “good ‘ol” Republican.
PCD says:

January 30, 2006 at 2:55 pm

GBA, great way to get your head blown off.
GBA says:

January 30, 2006 at 2:58 pm

Baklava,

It’s simple buddy. Either you support civil rights or you don’t. I have been to Charlotte many times. It’s not easy to be a non-white in the south. That’s the reality. I will check out that book. Knowledge is power. I like to read as much as you do.
Baklava says:

January 30, 2006 at 2:58 pm

BTW, Instead of focusing on personalities as you are doing Hull (because you could focus on Cruz Bustamante’s use of the “n” word or Robert Byrd or Maxine Waters race politics) why not focus on the message of conservatives and liberals? Why not focus on what you believe is good or bad policy and stop trying to smear a whole set of people based on their belief of what is good policy?

People want good. People want good policy. People want good race relations. People want good race relations policy.

For you to just come in here with a broad paintbrush based on your laundry list of accusation (that can’t possibly be dealth with in one or two sentences) against personalities is foolish. Then to ask the questions you ask of ST because of your disdain and condescension is even more foolish. It shows that you don’t believe that we aren’t intrested in good race relations.

We are. We just have different solutions and ideas concerning race relations than you.

Again, Please read (it’s probably in the library) Ward Connerly’s “Creating Equal”.

Until you can say you’ve read it there is no point in having a dialog with you on this topic because accusations about personalities is not PRODUCTIVE.
Baklava says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:00 pm

GBA stated, “It’s simple buddy. Either you support civil rights or you don’t.

OK. Well either you support this country or you don’t.

Why don’t you support this country GBA !!!
Hull says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:01 pm

“But when you try to engage and deliever facts to some (like Hull) they turn off their ears and continue on with their LAUNDRY LIST. The problem with the liberal laundry lists of accusations is a) you have to settle down on one to get deep into it and actually discuss it b) they use it to divert and throw more condescension at us.”

Baklava, are you familiar with the term HYPOCRITE.

This thread originally addressed the need for immigrants to assimilate. I commented that Conservatives harping on assimilation are generally using it as a pretext for their racist beliefs.

And to answer that you claim that Liberals have a list of talking points but they ignore the facts, etc.

Yet at no point in your response do you address assimilation, or immigration.

Now, you were saying that I’M adhering to a laundry list of talking points.

Come off it. You’ve been fed a steady diet of not so hidden racism, and Fox News soundbites.

Pot meet Kettle.
GBA says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:02 pm

Baklava,

I support any and all efforts by this country that are not rooted in corruption.
PCD says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:03 pm

Hull, and you are silent of Sen. Dodd’s praise of Sen. Robert “KKK” Byrd’s KKK past? My, how specially partisan of you. Oh, this happend after the Lott flap and after Dodd himself said that anything like that happened in the Democrat caucus the offender would be removed. Dodd is still there. Democrats are hypocrites. Hull and GBA just lap it up.

Hull and GBA why are you so slilent about White Senator Charles Schumer employing two identity thieves who stole a Black man’s identity and personal information to smear him with? I want to see how you hypocritically defend Schumer and in the balance show yourselves to be the racists here.
Hull says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:06 pm

“For you to just come in here with a broad paintbrush based on your laundry list of accusation”

My “broad paintbrush” is supported by 30 years of history and most recently by the study I refer to in the 1:44 post.
Sister Toldjah says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:11 pm

Hull: “Wow.”

ST: Why “wow”? Don’t enjoy taking it once you’ve dished it out?

Hull: “First of all, I am a PROGRESSIVE LIBERAL and have never claimed to be anything else. I’d like to see a quote where I stated otherwise.”

ST: Ok, thanks for the clarification.

Hull: “Second, the reason liberals claim that conservative and Republicans since 1968 are racist is because history has shown that to be true.”

ST: So you really do believe Republicans are racists. Glad to have an acknowledgement on that.

Hull: “The Southern Strategy?”

ST: Already addressed and acknowledged by Ken Mehlman.

Hull: David Duke?

ST: What about him? I believe he recently endorsed Cindy Sheehan. Does that make him a moonbat anti-war liberal?

Hull: “Strom Thermond?”

ST: Southern Dixiecrat who renounced his racist ways in later years. How about Sheets Byrd?

Hull: “The Willie Horton commercials?”

ST: Big deal and overhyped, as usual, by your side. It wasn’t wrong to bring up something Al Gore had already touched on prior to the ads being aired. How about the James Byrd ad ran by the NAACP? The Democrats hands are NOT clean on the issue of race and your ignorance of it doesn’t change that.

Hull: “Jesse Helms?”

ST: Southern Republican who renounced his racist ways in later years.

Hull: “How many Democrat Klu Klux Klan members are there today?”

ST: Faulty logic. How many Kwanzaa (a black racist ‘observance’) supporters are in the Republican party today?

Hull: “If people think Republicans are racist it’s your own fault.”

ST: It’s typical of a “progressive liberal” to not take his party’s share of the blame when it comes to perpetuating the myth that the majority of Republicans are racists.

Hull: “Ken Mehlman YOUR RNC Chief acknowledged your checkered history, why can’t you? ”

ST: Um, did you even READ what I wrote? Let me repeat myself: “Republicans have worked hard over the years to erase their image as a party of racists ..” Now where is the acknowledgement on your party that your party is chock full of blatant black racists who never get called on it by white Democrats? Yeah, that’s what I thought.

Hull: “As to the argument that it’s really the liberals who are racist. I’ll take the lesser of two evils any day.”

ST: Translation: “I’ll take the party that panders to black people any day over the party who tries their best to hold discussions about race only to be branded racists en masse by others in my party.”

Hull: Let’s see should I pick the party that at least pays lip service to the effort to ameliorate historical injustice and inequality”

ST: LOL! Lip service is about right. In other words, even YOU realize that the party elite doesn’t give crap about advancing the interests of the black community. It’s not about solutions to the Democratic party on race issues. It’s about holding on to the black vote, no matter how much demagoguing of the issues you have to enagage in.

Hull: “the Klu Klux Klan, Minutemen, Anti Civil Rights Party?”

ST: You’re really full of it. There aren’t any KKK members in Congress, last I checked, and the Minutemen aren’t racist – and your accusation to that effect just shows that you are just like the rest of the DNC when it comes to slamming any group of people who tries to tackle the issues of race and/or immigration as racist. Congrats! You proved my point nicely. On civil rights, my party wasn’t/isn’t “anti-civil rights.” Pick up a history book before you spout of that bit of nonsense again. Barry Goldwater was pro-civil rights, he just believed it was a states issue, not a federal one.

Hull: “Tough Call.”

ST: Not really. You’ve just chosen to be part of the problem, rather than part of the solution. It’s really easy to sit back in your chair and think of all the nasty things you can say about the Republican party and racism but it’s another thing altogether to 1) acknowledge the racists in your party who are far more prominent (like Maxine Waters, Charlie Rangel, Kweisi Mfume, Jesse Jackson, etc) and 2) to bring forth ideas that would help both parties bridge the racial divide. So no, it’s not a tough call for you at all.

Hull: “Here’s a former Democrat turned Repub providing some insightful comments on race relations in the U.S.:

“I want to say this about my state: When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We’re proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn’t have had all these problems over all these years, either.”

Thanks for the tip Trent Lott. How’s that career working out now anyway? ”

ST: And here’s a southern Democrat and former Klansman who stayed a Democrat (via Instapundit):

“There are white niggers. I’ve seen a lot of white niggers in my time. I’m going to use that word.” – Senator Robert Byrd (D-WV). How’s his career working out anyway? Oh, he’s still in the Senate, on various committees.

I’d also like to point out something you said in the comments last week and ask you why you don’t practice what you preach:

instead of trying to paint people who disagree with you as Communists, America Haters, or whatever slander you can think of, why not debate the issue?

This Fox News style attack on my motives is evidence that you are unable to address the issues at hand.

The ST version:

instead of trying to paint people who disagree with you as racists, or whatever slander you can think of, why not debate the issue?

This DNC- style attack on my motives is evidence that you are unable to address the issues at hand.

—

You see how easy it was to turn this around on you, Hull? Your hypocrisy couldn’t be more obvious, both on the issue of attacking motives as well as the issue of racism itself.
GBA says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:12 pm

Hull,

re:Assimilation and immigration.
It’s my belief that if you illegal in this country you must be deported. And given our current situation regarding national security new immigration visas should be administered sparingly and only in instances of political asylum. We desperately need secure our borders and stop illegals from entering. Assimilation is not the job of the government. It is the responibilty of the idividual. And the governament needs to put a cap on immigration. The status quo represents a huge security issue and a tremendous loss of national treasure.

The only really hard part is there is no way to distinguish an illegal immigrant without running the risk some sort of racial inequity.
Baklava says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:12 pm

Hull wrote, “I commented that Conservatives harping on assimilation are generally using it as a pretext for their racist beliefs.

Yes. We all saw your 1:44 post full of accusations. Never to be addressed to your satisfaction. I don’t know what it is we’d have to say to get you off of your accusation. That’s the point. You have no ears and are full of accusations. There is no point to the discussion with you. It is your attempt at what? Making us feel guilty for something we don’t believe? Making others not like conservatives? That totally moves the discussion from ideas and solutions to what your agenda is. Which is what?

Hull accused, “Yet at no point in your response do you address assimilation, or immigration.

I for good race relations and good immigration policy. This country allows more legal immigrants than all other countries combined and therefore I believe that we do NOT need to allow illegal immigrants and there is not a racist bone in my body just because I made that statement. I believe in no preferential treatment or discrimination based on race which is why I voted for Proposition 209 (CA Civil Rights Initiative that passed) and I am OFFENDED that I have to address YOUR ACCUSATIONS. THis is the point. YOu will never believe no matter what I write that you accusations are mostly without merit or addressless. The accusatoins are what they are and do NOT TRANSLATE to ST’s or my beliefs.

Hull wrote, “Pot meet Kettle. In reference to your hypocrite accusation I’m not thinking I am the one questioning your commitment to civil rights. In fact, I’ve said that most everyone wants good race policy they just have different ideas. Liberals want preferential treatment, conservatives don’t. You can either act like we are all human beings and discuss that topic civilly or you can continue your pattern of throwing accusations.

GBA,
I support any and all efforts by this country toward good race relations that are not rooted in corruption.
Hull says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:14 pm

Very good argument PCD.

Sen Dodd and Sen. Shumer have a worse record on race and civil rights than Trent Lott, David Duke, and Strom Thermond.

That’s great. You must be an attorney.
Baklava says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:14 pm

Hull wrote, “My “broad paintbrush” is supported by 30 years of history and most recently by the study I refer to in the 1:44 post

Ok then. My broad paintbrush is supported by 30 years of history of liberals performing race politics.

There now we are even. Jeez..
Sister Toldjah says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:19 pm

Hull: “While we’re on the subject of Trent Lott’s support for white supremecy and racial segregation I beleive Wikipedia makes an interesting note about liberal bias in the MSM:”

ST: Wiki has been discredited as a reliable source. Try again.

Hull (to Baklava): “Baklava, are you familiar with the term HYPOCRITE.

This thread originally addressed the need for immigrants to assimilate. I commented that Conservatives harping on assimilation are generally using it as a pretext for their racist beliefs.

And to answer that you claim that Liberals have a list of talking points but they ignore the facts, etc.

Yet at no point in your response do you address assimilation, or immigration.”

ST: And neither have you, yet you’ve taken others here to task in another thread for attacking your motivations and failure to address the issue. It’s not Baklava who is the hypocrite here. It’s you.
Sister Toldjah says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:21 pm

PCD: “GBA, you aren’t a Libertarian. Only Liberals BELIEVE that Minorities can get nowhere with out the help of the White liberal. ”

ST: If GBA is a libertarian then I’m Martha Stewart.
PCD says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:22 pm

Hull, from your evasiveness, I take you for a Black racist. You can’t admit that there is anything wrong with Democrats, can you?

Speaking of civil rights, what about the 5 Black Democrats who were convicted of slashing tires on vans rented by the Wisconsin GOP to get out elderly voters? Why aren’t you condemning Gwen Moore’s racism. For that matter why are you silent on Cynthia McKinney’s racism as well as her father’s? I believe you share the Moore/McKinney racist beliefs.
GBA says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:23 pm

PCD,

Why in the world do you think I am attacking the GOP alone. I am against all rascism anywhere and by anybody. I don’t claim the DNC as my party anyway. Racism is disgusting. I don’t tolerate in public or in private, from anyone or organization.

I asked ST that question because I know that she desciminates against homosexuals with regards to equality in marriage.
It has been my experience that descrimination is not a isolated point of view. If you are against giving equal rights to one group it stands to reason that you may consider the same for another group.
Sister Toldjah says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:24 pm

Baklava: “Ok then. My broad paintbrush is supported by 30 years of history of liberals performing race politics.”

ST: And unfortunately, the Dems show know signs of wanting to change their ways. The R’s, OTOH, are at least acknowledging things from the past and trying to make the wrong right.
PCD says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:26 pm

ST, I have been saying GBA isn’t a Libertarian since his first post. I know many California Libertarians. While they have an affection for drugs, they do not have an affection for affirmative action or any other action by the Government not mandated by the Constitution.

Affirmative action is nothing more than state sponsored racism against whites.
Hull says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:26 pm

ST: “How many Kwanzaa (a black racist â€˜observance’) supporters are in the Republican party today?”

Kwanzaa is a racist observance? That is a really interesting point of view that totally supports everything I’ve said thus far. Thanks for that. Does Kwanzaa in any way denigrate any race??????? You all are really smoking some strong stuff.

GBA I agree with your stance on illegal immigration for the most part.

Baklava, you assume that Liberals want preferential treatment as opposed to equal opportunity. Again, pot meet kettle.
Sister Toldjah says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:29 pm

GBA: “I asked ST that question because I know that she desciminates against homosexuals with regards to equality in marriage.”

ST: That is a gross (deliberate?) distortion of my position. I am against changing the definition of marriage and have explained my reasons why here.

GBA: “It has been my experience that descrimination is not a isolated point of view. If you are against giving equal rights to one group it stands to reason that you may consider the same for another group.”

Um, it’s not up to me to “give” equal rights to anyone. Equal rights are already guaranteeed by the Constitution.
PCD says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:29 pm

GBA, Homosexual marriage is not discrimination. It is a political agenda. You want to address it in another thread, fine.

It is not racism to demand Immigrants assilate into the American Culture. That is Speak English, and be faithful to the US, not your home country.
Baklava says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:31 pm

GBA wrote, “It has been my experience that descrimination is not a isolated point of view. If you are against giving equal rights to one group it stands to reason that you may consider the same for another group.

First rule of holes is to stop digging when you are in one.

I’m not thinking you’ve talked to many African Americans lately with that point of view. This is one topic that African Americans who vote 92% Democrat differ with the Democrat party on. This is also true with Latinos.

This is also true with Most of America. CA even. We voted for the proposition which defined marriage. It passed (by a big margin) but the Democrat legislature here is ignoring it.
PCD says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:33 pm

Hull, Kwanzaa is a fiction foisted upon the public by Ron Karanga. Tony Snow has written about the fallacies Karanga perpetrated about the African source of his holiday. Karanga was a Black Racist Communist who wanted to separate the Black community from its Christian roots and church to then enlist them in his racist crusade against white America.
GBA says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:35 pm

PCD,

You’re exactly right.
Homosexual marriage is not discrimination by itself. But opposition to it is what? Denying equality to fellow Americans because they don’t share the same religious point of view regarding sexuality is what? That’s not a political view. It’s merely using politics as an instrument of discrimination. This part we are not in agreement.

“It is not racism to demand Immigrants assilate into the American Culture. That is Speak English, and be faithful to the US, not your home country.”

This you and I both are 100% congruent in positions.
Baklava says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:36 pm

BY the way, I’ll have to look it up but Michael Medved talked about a Universities attempt at giving partner benefits and had to RESORT to people seeking partner status to sign an afidavit that said that they are sexually intimate. This is what a University had to do to limit it’s pocketbooks so that anyone and everyone doesn’t claim partner benefits just because they live together and are friends.

As this is a difficult issue to deal with, you cannot just slam us due to the fact that we disagree with changing the definition of marriage. There is no need to resort to that. And even if we do concede that 50 years from now…. You must understand that conservatives care about good race relations whether you “feel” like they might not.
Sister Toldjah says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:37 pm

Hull: “Kwanzaa is a racist observance? That is a really interesting point of view that totally supports everything I’ve said thus far. Thanks for that. Does Kwanzaa in any way denigrate any race??????? You all are really smoking some strong stuff.”

ST: Nice try, but it supports what *I’ve* said and not you. Read what the Kwanzaa pledge (all caps theirs):

WE PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE RED, BLACK, AND GREEN, OUR FLAG, THE SYMBOL OF OUR ETERNAL STRUGGLE, AND TO THE LAND WE MUST OBTAIN; ONE NATION OF BLACK PEOPLE, WITH ONE GOD OF US ALL, TOTALLY UNITED IN THE STRUGGLE, FOR BLACK LOVE, BLACK FREEDOM, AND BLACK SELF-DETERMINATION.

Yeah, that really “supports” what you’ve said so far. Not.
Baklava says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:38 pm

Hull wrote, “Baklava, you assume that Liberals want preferential treatment as opposed to equal opportunity. Again, pot meet kettle.

Almost EVERY if not EVERY Democrat in California opposed the CCRI/Prop 209 here in CA. That would be an accurate statement as opposed to an incorrect accusation. Pot never met kettle here.

You still need to read Ward Connerly’s book….
GBA says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:41 pm

ST,

Equal rights are indeed guaranteed in writing by the constitution. But these eqaulities have not always been administered to all people.

I have read your post regarding the definition of marriage and the defense thereof. Many of our past statemen as used to think it was necessary to protect the sanctity of “men” under the constitution. Whereas for many years the concept of what is a man under the law only included white men. Native Americans were not men, African Slaves were not men. Chinese were not men.
Is this perhaps the “slippery slope of equality amongst men”?
PCD says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:47 pm

Robert Alt had a telling editorial almost 2 years ago on the Liberal Creed. It is as true and as telling on the likes of Hull and GBA as anything else.
Sister Toldjah says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:47 pm

GBA: “Is this perhaps the “slippery slope of equality amongst men”? ”

ST: Is this perhaps “let’s see how many rhetorical questions GBA can ask in one day” day? This has nothing to do with equality and everything to do with changing the definition of something to the point it no longer has meaning.

Do you want to address the issue at hand, or do you want to sidetrack it into a discussion about gay marriage? Not a single person in this thread who has challenged me or those who agree with me on the issue of assimilation has addressed the issue from my initial post. Why is that?
Hull says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:48 pm

I’m done.

I’d like to talk about assimilation and illegal immigration but the Kwanzaa attack is beyond the pale.

If Kwanzaa is racist so is Christmas and Hanukkah

Supporting Black people does not mean that you are racist against whites you . . . forget it.

“sister” told ja and PCD, you have shown yourself in these comments to be no better than Holocaust Deniers and Klan members.

Good Luck in life.
Sister Toldjah says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:50 pm

“I’m done.

I’d like to talk about assimilation and illegal immigration but the Kwanzaa attack is beyond the pale.

If Kwanzaa is racist so is Christmas and Hanukkah

Supporting Black people does not mean that you are racist against whites you . . . forget it.

“sister” told ja and PCD, you have shown yourself in these comments to be no better than Holocaust Deniers and Klan members.

Good Luck in life. ”

Typical – you couldn’t address the substance of anything I said so you resort to ad hominem against both PCD and myself. Desperate measures by a desperate person unable to refute anything I’ve said.

I guess you don’t like it when the facts hit you in the face, do you?

Hasta la vista.
PCD says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:50 pm

Hull, don’t run before you read the truth about Kwanzaa

I doubt Hull will be back. He’s been beaten and he isn’t accepting the defeat.
Hull says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:55 pm

I thought you were leaving us racist homophobes, Hull? –ST
GBA says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:58 pm

Baklava,

I just read Prop 209. I don’t live in Cali anymore but I am very familiar with the culture there. Having grown up not too far (Sausalito) from where you are.

Personally I am for meritocracy but I can see where many would be concerned that this proposition. While it was concieved from a righteous idealogly. It may be a bit premature even for California. But with that states near “minority” majority I can see how it can develop into situation of descrimination against individuals not protected by diversity statutes and policies.
GBA says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:58 pm

Baklava,

I just read Prop 209. I don’t live in Cali anymore but I am very familiar with the culture there. Having grown up not too far (Sausalito) from where you are.

Personally I am for meritocracy but I can see where many would be concerned that this proposition. While it was concieved from a righteous idealogly. It may be a bit premature even for California. But with that states near “minority” majority I can see how it can develop into situation of descrimination against individuals not protected by diversity statutes and policies.
GBA says:

January 30, 2006 at 3:59 pm

Sorry for double clicking
PCD says:

January 30, 2006 at 4:02 pm

The truth hurts Liberals. Right now Hull must feel he has a wooden stake through his heart with the truth about kwanzaa exposed.
GBA says:

January 30, 2006 at 4:13 pm

Islam and Christianity both have similar language regarding conversion of societies to there own faiths and beliefs. I don’t get the point.
Baklava says:

January 30, 2006 at 4:16 pm

Again, Read Ward Connerly’s BOOK “Creating Equal”.

Ward addresses how this country if it wants to give a hand up to do it by giving it to ALL who are economically disadvantaged and NOT based on race. Every race has people who are economically disadvantaged.

Hope this helps.
Baklava says:

January 30, 2006 at 4:17 pm

PCD wrote, “I doubt Hull will be back.

I’ve seen it before. He’s obsessed with his hate for conservatives. He doesn’t feel defeated he feels victimized… yet doesn’t understand he’s the one with hate.
GBA says:

January 30, 2006 at 4:19 pm

Baklava,

I am going to read it. Can I get it at Barnes&Noble? Where did you get your copy?
Baklava says:

January 30, 2006 at 4:20 pm

GBA wrote another incorrect accusation, “Islam and Christianity both have similar language regarding conversion of societies to there own faiths and beliefs. I don’t get the point.

Where does it say to slay the infidel in the bible? The bible asks us to preach the gospel not to kill the infidel. The Koran talks about this smiting/killing/slaying over 100+ times.

There are plenty of moderate muslims who aren’t fundamentalists but the fundamentalists in Islam are over 100 times more dangerous if they believe they are to carry out the word of the Koran.
andrew says:

January 30, 2006 at 4:22 pm

“Hull, Kwanzaa is a fiction foisted upon the public by Ron Karanga”

Unlike Santa Claus, which is real!
Baklava says:

January 30, 2006 at 4:23 pm

Amazon.com

Though I don’t know I should refer to Amazon as Michelle Malkin has exposed Amazon’s tactics (replacing pictures of covers of books – I know that must be a single Amazon employee but they should be fired and Amazon should apologize).
GBA says:

January 30, 2006 at 4:33 pm

ST,

You got me. I do ask alot of rhetorical questions. As a matter of fact I ask more questions than I do anything else. And most of the time I already know the answers. I was raised by attorneys so I can’t help it…..I think it’s genetic.

I do like to learn new things though. I learn everytime I go blogging at Sister Toldjah.

The afformentioned article was good and it reflects accurately what is happening in Arizona. But the rest of the US has slightly different variations of the same issue. California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas have very unique and critical problems that if are undealt with regard to Americanization it could and is having a profound impact on the rest of the country.

Rep. J.D. Hayworth was is either a hero or a dope for writing this article. I personally see the article as brave, concise and articulate. And I hope his constituents think the same. But you never know.
GBA says:

January 30, 2006 at 4:35 pm

Baklava,

Whoop! Whoop!
GBA says:

January 30, 2006 at 4:36 pm

Baklava,

Could you please explain the concept of evangelism then?

The crusaded never happened?

The Spanish Inquisition just a rumor?
Big Bang Hunter says:

January 30, 2006 at 4:45 pm

– GBA….I’m not being snarky here… serious question…. do you have a reading comprehension problem….

– The comparisan I believe was between the creedos that each “Religion” sets for to its flocks… Not the mis-guided, misuse the flocks make of it…try to keep up here….

– Bang
Baklava says:

January 30, 2006 at 4:47 pm

The crusades happened.

Why do you question me like that again and again. I never stated the Crusades didn’t happen. The Crusades weren’t carried out due to Christianity’s teachings. They had reasons (many flat wrong) and some were due to trying to RECLAIM land from the Muslims who took it.
Take note about the reclaiming

I’m not sure how your logic words. I once was a liberal but you’ve baffled me as to how you think the BIBLE and the KORAN teach similar wasys of converting people. It simply ISN’T TRUE and is an incorrect accusation.
Baklava says:

January 30, 2006 at 4:48 pm

HEY Bang,

What? You got too much to do today?

Thanks for finally tagging me. Now get in the ring…
GBA says:

January 30, 2006 at 4:53 pm

Baklava,

I just so happen to have a copy of both scriptures here in front of me. Where in Koran did you say these passages are?
I’ll look through the book of John. I remember a part where he states that Jesus said whomsoever believeth shall inherit the earth and enjoy everlasting life etc. Or some thing like that.

Get abck to me with those verses
Thanks
Baklava says:

January 30, 2006 at 4:56 pm

I’ll get to it…. But maybe some other day. The Internet is full of experts who read the Koran and has the passages outlined.

You could do due diligence or keep making the accusation.

(Again I’ll get to it but maybe not today – just thought you could show responsibility – not accusing you of lacking it).
Big Bang Hunter says:

January 30, 2006 at 5:02 pm

– Sorry for slacking a bit today Bak… Me and mini-me are arm wresling dah flu to the floor. I’ve been following the thread, chuckling as the al Qaeda-bats did their usual tap dance in four nuanced directions at once as per usual. If there was a shred of question left in anyones mind, as to how a dishonorably discharged, nuanced brained, Communist sympethizer, managed to get nominated for their party presidential run, it should be pretty obvious by now to everyone.

– But that last one by GBA was just too blatant to pass up….

– Bang
GBA says:

January 30, 2006 at 5:13 pm

Baklava,

Although you and I do not share many views. Our path to a viewpoint is similar. I do my homework brother. And assume you do too.
My point was not that Christianity is bad or good. And the same of Islam or any other radical religion that is based on faith more than fact. My point is that so what that Kwanzaa is not a friendly celbration, belief ect. Neither is Islam, neither is Christianity. Depending who and where you are in this world this holds true.

Between Islam and Christianity more people have died fighting for religious supremecy than any other cause known to mankind combined.

It makes you wonder about religion, or more accurately the church/mosque/whatever(organization of religion) and it’s policies of global proliferation of it’s beliefs. The Christians have missionaries. The Muslims have an even broader network to facilitate religious conversion. These groups go to countries around the world to minister the beliefs of their particular God.
Big Bang Hunter says:

January 30, 2006 at 5:31 pm

While we’re on the subject, a friendly word of advice to GBA. Whenever you try to debate using scattered references, and off-topic out of context memes, you tend to really shingle yourself out over the fog at 60,000 feet. Discussing events, taken in the name of a religion, is particularly frought with intellectual land mines. Spain was, at the time, rabidly Fascist, which continued unabated up too modern times, even beyond Franco’s rein. Italys Fascist leanings culminated in Musollini. Dipping into history, without paying attention to the causes/effects is a real waste of everyones time.

– The lessons of history of course is the reason our founding fathers were driven to keep governments hands off religion. “Congress shall make no laws respecting religion or the practice thereof….”.

– If any Liberal/Marxist/
Communist/Socialist/Progressives/Aetheists/Theists ect ect., can show me a article/ammendment in the Constitution where it says “This Document is divorced from, and not based on the creedos, principles, and morals of Judao/Christian beliefs, I’ll be glad to eat my hat in front of a session of Congress on national TV…..

– The founders wanted to protect everyones rights to gov. free medling in your religious freedoms, not eviscerate every semblance of decency from the American way of life in order to make a tiny minority of Aetheists happy.

– As Homer Simpson would so colorfully out it: “You guys are simply “full of beans”

– Bang
Pam says:

January 30, 2006 at 5:52 pm

Wasn’t Robert Byrd (D-W VA) the Grand Wizard of the KKK?

Why is it that GBA believes ST is discriminating against gays if she holds the belief that they are not to be married? (I have no idea how she feels on the subject, I am going by what GBA said)

Why would any person of intelligence release a study such as the one cited above? In order for one to believe the study, one must believe that all democrats believe the gays should marry and all republicans must believe that gays should not marry. The same would be true for affimatice action and other causes cited in the study. The fact is, as we are seeing in state elections with the issue on their ballots, this is not an issue that can be assigned to political leanings. Michigan had a marriage amendment on the ballot in Nov 04′. The State went to Kerry in the election and 63% of voters voted for the marriage ban….
Baklava says:

January 30, 2006 at 5:59 pm

Source of over 200 links

References for you

Home page for that site
Big Bang Hunter says:

January 30, 2006 at 6:22 pm

– GBA…. are you now trying to argue that it doesn’t matter what the very essense of the book of your religion preaches. If so I think you’re whistling into the wind.

– “Depending who and where you are in this world this holds true.”

– Very true, but unfortunately, also very tutorial, and again totally off point, since it speaks to the vageries of men, not the basic teachings of their religious faiths. I’m disposed to think you’re intentionally being evasive concerning the very agressive, and intolerant, in some cases even genocidal , the Koran edicts to its faithful….

– Bang
GBA says:

January 30, 2006 at 6:56 pm

Baklava,

http://www.answering-islam.org is a great site.

The 164 references to Jihad are very different than the actual translated verse that I have. But I am not a muslim and I don’t speak arabic. So I can be of no value in translating the text myself. But the english translation are very different.

The other site http://www.antijihad.org was way more propaganda that factual in it’s list of links. But it has lots of value as a reference of diversified opinions.

I am not a fan of Islam in general. But I feel it’s essential to understand who you are fighting with and whatfor. Know your enemy.

But I can also quote you some crazy stuff from Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

The point is when dealing anything that bases it’s position in the super-natural and blind faith instead of fact. There will always be room for criticism and ridicule. Even exploitation of text for religious or even political gain.

Please tell me that organized religion has nothing todo with greed, power, hatred and war.

It’s clear that the radical Muslim world uses religion as a weapon. And it’s clear that the same is true of Christians here in the states. So excuse me if I think Kwanzaa is no big deal. Almost nobody celbrates it. This is in stark contrast to Christianity and Islam.
Baklava says:

January 30, 2006 at 7:19 pm

Generally not. Michael Medved has gone on for hours on this topic (do you know who he is?) The slaughter of millions in Soviet Union and China and in earlier periods in history were generally due to resources and freedom. Rivers, lakes, land, the freedom to utilize these resources and earn a living and feed your family… Most fights/wars were due to a war over resources and/or lack thereof and the economic system that enslaved or gave little hope or opportunity. This is why communism and dictatorships and socialism is evil in my mind.

Capitalism is the system where the people choose who gets what resources. With our nation of laws and over abundance of safety nets (and hammocks that dilute the safety net for non-able-bodied people) this country provides a system where the most people are provided for and our poor are better off than the average in Europe.

The only religion that seems to teach killing and has it’s members who are fundamentalists believe people need to convert or die is Islam because of the Koran. I’ve read the bible front to back and taken 4 years of Catholic school and a class in college in World Religions and nothing ever comes close that I know of to the teachings about the “infidel”.

BTW, Our country due to it’s prosperity gives more aid to all the other countries and world’s poor than all of the other countries combined. Without our system that allows for opportunity and success we wouldn’t have the prosperity. We cannot tax our selves into prosperity and the Laffer Curve is real. It helped our economy tremendously when taxes were cut for ALL income tax payers. IT is the reason that tax revenues into the government increased by 14% last year.
GBA says:

January 30, 2006 at 7:31 pm

Baklava,

Now that’s a strong argument. Well done.

I still don’t understand where you get your growth numbers from. I had heard that growth was closer to 4% with inflation being at an all time low of near two percent. This was Friday on NPR in a program about Greenspan and Bernanke.
Baklava says:

January 30, 2006 at 7:40 pm

When an economy is growing at 4% that means companies are profitable and more people are being hired and that is why revenues into the government due to taxation grew at 14+%. When an economy is shrinking due to a recession the revenues into the government fall off more than the economy is shrinking.

How about this to help. If every company in the U.S. makes .1% profit then X revenues go into the government. If companies grow such that they make .2% profit that might be a 1% growth in the economy to do that but it’d be a DOUBLING of X revenues into the government. This is simple to help.

Our economy is large. There are winner companies and loser companies. But the principle remains the same. The recession of 2001 and 2002 which was reflected as early as OCtober 2000 (before Bush was in office) was due to most companies trying to stop spending so much after spending a lot to fix the Y2K problem. The result was recession. To help the economy a reduction in tax rates was instrumental to boosting it and the effect was a boosting of revenues into the government due to the boom in the economy. The 14% increase in revenues last year would NOT have happened if the recession lasted longer.
GBA says:

January 30, 2006 at 7:55 pm

Baklava,

I’ll buy that.
PCD says:

January 31, 2006 at 8:37 am

Just to throw one or two last logs on the fire, Iowa and the upper midwestern states are now seeing the assimilation problem for themselves. We’ve had accidents where van and railroad car loads of illegals were hurt in state. The Democrats are pushing laws to allow illegals to vote, as well as trying to grant them welfare and such that Amercican citizens in the same circumstances can’t get.

I thought someone other than Hull would have said something about the origins of Kwanzaa I posted. I’m disappointed.

Comments are closed.