in the wrong era. Soundly refuting
liberals online since 2000. NOTE: That is NOT
me pictured at left. :)
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Audacity of Truth
"Diplomacy":
"People are saying what in the world is going on with North Carolina, we look like Mississippi." - NC Gov. Bev Perdue (D) on the passage of Amendment One, 5-11-12
Thomas Sowell on the NSA ‘scandal’ controversy
As usual, he is spot on:
Looking back at the history of tragic times often reveals that many — or most — of the people of those times were often preoccupied with things that look trivial, or even pathetic, in view of the catastrophe looming over them. Will later generations looking back at our times see a similar blindness, and even frivolousness, in the face of mortal dangers?
Terrorists and terrorist governments are giving us almost daily evidence of their fanatical hatred and violent sadism, as the clock ticks away toward their gaining possession of nuclear weapons. They not only hold a harmless young woman hostage in Iraq, they parade her in tears on television, just as they have paraded not only the terrorizing, but even the beheading, of others on television.
Moreover, there is a large and gleeful audience in the Arab world for these gross brutalities, just as there was glee and cheering among the Palestinians when the televised destruction of the World Trade center was broadcast in the Middle East.
Yet what are we preoccupied with or outraged about? Whether the American government should intercept the phone calls of these cutthroats to people in the United States.
That question has been sanitized in the mainstream media by asking whether the government should be engaged in “domestic wiretapping,” just as the terrorists themselves have been sanitized into “militants” or “insurgents.”
Read the whole thing. Doesn’t get any better than TS!
Related Toldjah So posts:
- NSA ‘scandal’ fallout: convicted terrorist conspirators wanting cases thrown out
- Intelligence officials: NSA leak has undermined ability to fight terrorism
- On politicizing the Patriot Act and the NSA ‘scandal’
- NYT: NSA scandal is worse than WWII Japanese internment camps
- Link between disposable phone sale surge and NSA leak?
- Whistleblower or leaker?
- Joe Klein: How to Stay Out of Power (and undermine the war in the process)
- Why it was important to keep the cat in the bag
- The Rep. Jane Harman flip flop
- NSA initially acted on its own after 9-11
- Investigations begin into the NSA eavesdropping leak
- “… the only thing outrageous about this policy is the outrage itself”
- Michael Barone on the MSM’s ‘eavesdropping’ coverage
- Brief history of warrantless searches
- Past presidents and the NSA
- Bill Clinton and the NSA
- WSJ: “Thank you for wiretapping”
- The Prez fires back
- Prez essentially says ‘let me do my job’
- The undermining of this war
RSS feed for comments on this post.
“Yet what are we preoccupied with or outraged about? Whether the American government should intercept the phone calls of these cutthroats to people in the United States.”
The irony is in comparing this to the Sowell quote you have on your banner. This is a dishonest presentation of the issue. No-one is discussing whether the government should intercept the phone calls of cutthroats. No one is questioning that.
Indeed, the honesty of those of us who want the government to do its surveillance in a manner that follows the law and respects the innocent is causing much panic among the hypocrites.
The vast majority of liberals and Democrats couldn’t care less about intercepting terrorist phone calls. They really couldn’t care less about the legality of it either. The only reason they “care” at all is that they see it as a hypocritical, cynical, partisan issue that they can elevate and attempt to paint as serious in order to undermine this sitting president and the war effort. Remember, if the war goes well, that reflects well on Bush, and that simply cannot be allowed to happen. This is just one more in a never ending, continuous stream of manufactured “outrages” the lib/Dems have been playing chicken little with for 6 years now in a vain, futile attempt to take down this administration.
Once more, the Democrats and liberals prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are completely incompetent to ever be allowed to run the country without adult supervision. And they wonder why we won’t trust them with the defense of the country…
- Andrew. Pay attention. No one under the age of six believes this whole pile of partisan nonsense has a thing to do with “protecting our liberties”. You’ve been told over and over again that the NSA program is not about “domestic spying”, yet you charge onward, accussing the President of “breaking the law”. No proof. No incidents of actual innocent Americans having their phones monitored. Just hypothetical rhetoric where you start from the three premises that:
1) The NSA program is monitoring innocent Americans. False
2) The congress not the President sets the strategies and operational details of conducting war. False
3) The President is to be suspected of criminal activity at every turn, with no proof or witnesses to any such act. False.
- Yet in spite of that your Congressional leaders press on. This whole pile of partisan dung is just one more attempt for the left to “get Bush”.
- Worse you don’t have a clue as to the true dangers we face in the WOT. You don’t think it exists. You deny the WOT, just as you seem to be able to deny 9/11 and defend the murdering Jahidists that carried out that act of pure terrorism against innocent Americans. If I were a Father of one of the women, men, or children that died at the WTC, or the brave young men and women that have given their lives so you bastard leftists can sit here comfortable and safe, and spew your anti-American filth, if you said these things you’ve posted on here day after day to my face you had better have your insurance up to date. You know theres a line you don’t cross, even in the name of your ideals. But then decency and moral values are not something you’ll find in the Marxist playbook. With that I’m totally through with you. You and your kind are a disgrace to our nation, and worse you waste time in the face of real and present dangers, all in the name of some stupid unworkable Socialistic Utopian ideas that have failed countless times over history. I hope at some point you seperate your political ideas from whatever personal issues have brought you to the point you’re at. Beyond that I have only contempt for your treaterous, solicious, anti-American screeds.
- Bang
andrew, you are the hypocrite. You demand that laws your boy, Clinton, didn’t obey be kowtowed to the nth degree by Bush only so that you can get Bush because you couldn’t do it the legitimate way via the ballot box. Oh, yes, you democrats tried stealing elections, but got caught. It says volumes about you.
“The NSA program is monitoring innocent Americans. False”
How do you know this? I mean the program is secret right? We’ve had reports of thousands of people being monitored and leads followed to nowhere. But those might not be true, because the program is secret.
“The congress not the President sets the strategies and operational details of conducting war. False”
This is the constitutional separation of powers issue we are interested in discussing, not whether to monitor, but under what authority and pursuant to what law.
” You deny the WOT,”
Actually, I think it will go on forever. That’s the opposite of denying it.
“. You demand that laws your boy, Clinton, didn’t obey be kowtowed to the nth degree by Bush only so that you can get Bush because you couldn’t do it the legitimate way via the ballot box.”
When echelon came out I was upset with the clinton admin. I opposed their plans for roving wiretaps and key escrow. Did you ?
Andrew??? Did you read the same article I just finished?? There as not a single sign of panic in that article, and Sister doesn’t comment enough for you to glean panic from her.
Also you do know that irony doesn’t just mean made from iron particles. I see little irony between your comparisons. What I do see is the truth of what the man wrote. I know I have offended your pride in some fashion, but I cannot figure out, even remotely, what your trying to say. Did you click the link and read the whole article?? It seems that Dr. Sowell backs his point up very well. I go back to my original thinking on this matter. Can you be an American, if the whole purpose in becoming a citizen is to harm America in some way? The answer is NO.
I am sorry but your statement is the same leftist bs that we have heard over, and over again. It is not well thought out and is only being used to play on our, Americans in general, feelings. It is the same get Bush garbage that we heard in 2004 during the election. The NSA doesn’t give a squat about you Andrew unless you are getting calls from Al-Queida. Seems pretty simple to me. – Lorica
“The congress not the President sets the strategies and operational details of conducting war. False”
This is the constitutional separation of powers issue we are interested in discussing, not whether to monitor, but under what authority and pursuant to what law.
This idea has been tried numerous times over our history by the party out of power, and been soundly put down every time. The Framers of the constitution were adiment about not “turning the business of war over to legislators and lawyers, who have neither the practical experience, nor training, to in any way be expected, to perform these difficult tasks” – Thomas Jefferson
- So you want to question the Presidents total authority as Commander in Chief to fulfill his constitutional duties, bring it on. You’ll find out very fast how off base and stupid this idea is.
- No. this is exactly what it seems. You couldn’t beat Bush at the ballot box, so your partisan hack politicians try to find some way to extend Congressional powers and “control” him. I don’t think you’ll ever get it that most Americans do not go around mistrusting the President they vote for, anymore than they automatically distrust the Congress, although watching your partisan “get Bush” antics for the past 6 years, maybe we should in the case of the Democrats…
- Bang
oh no guys. I see Andrew’s point now. INNOCENT Americans are being monitored. I believe these INNOCENT Americans should be able to have international calls with Al Qaida during a time of war on a SECURE LINE
“This idea has been tried numerous times over our history by the party out of power, and been soundly put down every time. The Framers of the constitution were adiment about not “turning the business of war over to legislators and lawyers, who have neither the practical experience, nor training, to in any way be expected, to perform these difficult tasks” – Thomas Jefferson”
Thank you for discussing how to monitor, not whether to.
“h no guys. I see Andrew’s point now. INNOCENT Americans are being monitored. I believe these INNOCENT Americans should be able to have international calls with Al Qaida during a time of war on a SECURE LINE”
We would be able to take these sorts of arguments seriously if we did seriously know that only those with direct calls to al-qaeda are being monitored. But we don’t, because the program is secret.
Nothing to see here. Only IRRESPONSIBLE RECKLESS CHARGES (WITH NO EVIDENCE) during a time of war….
Why would you want to continue that irresponsibility Andrew?
Famous Andrew quote, “because the program is secret”
Well I’ll be. You mean the American public should be given our war plans before they occur and while they are occurring on CNN? Or are you denying that Senior biparisan leaders in Congress AND Intelligence Committee memmbers have been briefed (even though they have been briefed). That my friend by definition isn’t secret. People are being briefed. Which of the two do you want Andrew? If you take the first then I’m telling you that I don’t want CNN to tell us the WAR plans while they are going on…
Do you?
“Nothing to see here. Only IRRESPONSIBLE RECKLESS CHARGES (WITH NO EVIDENCE) during a time of war….”
Indeed it is amazing how much panic an honest man can spread.
“Well I’ll be. You mean the American public should be given our war plans before they occur and while they are occurring on CNN?”
Of course not. They can tell us later: we spied on 5000, or 5 people, and 1 ended up wanting to tear down the brooklyn bridge with blowtorches. No problem
“Committee memmbers have been briefed (even though they have been briefed). That my friend by definition isn’t secret. People are being briefed.”
If we can’t know about it. If its illegal and treason to put it into the NYT, then its secret. If by definition one person tells another and that 2d person tells no further, they have a secret together.
“Do you?”
It would help us discuss wether the administration broke the law, whether innocent people are being monitored. Whether I am wrong, and whether you are right.
There ya’ll go trying to get Andrew to do something he is not capable of handling. What liberal have you ever argued with that used common sense and logic to back up their position?
We would be able to take these sorts of arguments seriously if we did seriously know that only those with direct calls to al-qaeda are being monitored. But we don’t, because the program is secret.
So once again it all comes down to the paranoia of the bitter party out of power, who wish to engage in “guilty until proven innocent” toward our duly elected President on the one hand, while suddenly deciding that theres just got to be something sinister about conducting “secret operations in the time of war” sectretly.
- I think the desperation of being out of power has brought the left to the brink of total lose of common sense.
- I don’t know about you and your kind Andrew, but to the majority of Americans your thinly disguised “agenda driven witch hunts”, and seemingly suicidal thinking is just self serving nonsense.
- But then you’ve been told that over and over, and continue to think this brainless approach will somejow resonate with the electorate and translate into victory at the ballot box.
- Go for it….
- Bang
“So once again it all comes down to the paranoia of the bitter party out of power, who wish to engage in “guilty until proven innocent”"
Oh. If I thought he was guilty until innocent i’d say we should put him in jail till they told us what they’re up to. I don’t think that.
“But then you’ve been told that over and over, and continue to think this brainless approach will somejow resonate with the electorate and translate into victory at the ballot box.”
I agree that we should stick to blowjobs.
- Oh that note Andrew, all I can say is: sit back, have a “cigar”, and look forward to who knows how many decades of Conservative leadership… bon Appitite’
- Bang
andrew, you libs run around half-cocked on your own speculation. You have no proof, yet, as in global warming, you assume the worst and demand your outlandish course of action be implemented, just in case. How about a more reasonable course of action, such as ignoring most of you libs and putting the more psychotic ones in “Bellevue”?
“How about a more reasonable course of action, such as ignoring most of you libs and putting the more psychotic ones in “Bellevue”?”
Sounds quite reasonable to put away people we disagree with. Help yourself.
Sowell and the armageddonists have become prisoners of their own device, an illegal war that they thought they could use for their own political advantage. Now, that the war is a failure the right is spinning as hard as it can to blame the war’s failure on the nasty Democrats. That lie will not work either. Peace
- The only failure of any note Steve is in your defeatist mind…
- Bnag
IF, and only IF, the government is engaged in ‘domestic spying’ the government would be targeting messages of individuals within the country. Terrorists, on the other hand, are targeting innocent lives. Thomas Sowell questions the priorities of those who would prevent the interception of messages and risk individual lives.
Note that the some engage in debate regarding offensive cartoons, others engage in violence. Sowell cautions that while some argue the merits of gathering intelligence, an enemy is gathering weapons of mass destruction.
The Constitution vested the power to conduct war in a single executive, not the legislature. The legislature does not have the Constitutional authority to take war powers away from the executive branch. Intelligence gathering in time of war would be illegal IF, and only IF, the Constitution is amended. (It is not enough for a Court to look to the Koran or some other controlling legal authority).
Bang,
Steve has to have a mind to be defeatist.
The Dems really shouldn’t push this issue at all. It’s a loser.Period. You can’t really blame the NSA for trying to catch terrorists. The way the war is being is mismanaged big time and there is nothing that can be done about it until we sh*tcan our loser president but you gotta cut them some slack on this one IMHO.
tommy, the only mismanagement is Ted Kennedy mismanaging his mouth and actions.
Thanks Sis! It’s always a good day when Sowell comes out with something new to read. He’s not really saying anything new, but he is saying it better
He does make a good point about liberals turning a blind eye to all facts. The liberals will continue to drag their feet and obstruct until the terrorists are as strong militarily as we are. At that point they will “get it”, but by then we will have WWIV. They did it in Europe in the 30′s, and they are doing it again. I find it so amazing that they simply will not learn from the past.
These quotes describe liberal views as well today as they did when Neville Chamberlain said them a few years before WWII:
They say conservatives use ‘fear-tactics’, since they are incapable of using the past to understand that there is dire need of fear right now. Neville Chamberlain, like most liberals of the time, finally understood that their way of life was being attacked, but only after it was 5 years too late. WWII could have been resolved with tens of millions of lives saved, but liberals could not see that Hitler was psycho (Churchill did!). Today, liberals can’t see the psychosis of islamofascism. International phone monitoring is more important to them.
Steve, you should change your signature to “Peace-ful surrender”. Surrendering your freedom of speech to the islamofascists is the first step.
The Dems don’t have the brains not to push this issue, it’s obvious they have no brains or self control at all. They are all suffering under such intense cases of Bush Derangement Syndrome that any and all logic and common sense have been completely driven out of their little pointed heads. The more they try and find things to stick, the more they fail, and the more unhinged and desperate they become to push the next issue they can create.
It’s amazing how much panic one honest man can spread among a multitude of hypocrites
Indeed, and that’s exactly what you are: A hypocrite. You claim to want honest debate where stereotypes aren’t used and motives aren’t questioned yet don’t have any problem engaging in stereotypes and questioning the motivations of others yourself.
You’ve made it clear you don’t want to be here. I’m not sure why you bothered returning, considering what you said, but nevertheless my deletion of your comments had nothing to do with the fact that you disagreed (why would you think that, considering the back and forth you took part in here and here?) and everything to do with your obvious desire to no longer grace this blog with your more ‘enlightened’ presence. Just giving you a helping hand. As you said to us: “Good luck in life.” –ST
I disagree with you Severian. If you clear out the hippies, the liberals people are as intelligent and knowledgeable as other Americans. They are just incapable of seeing evil outside America, and seeing good inside it.
I wish I could understand where that comes from. It happens in all western countries where large sections of the population are free, going as far back as ancient Rome and Greece. It seems to be a hallmark of western civilization that a portion of it’s people hate western civilization. Weird huh?
Blogagog, the majority of liberals seem content to amuse themselves to death obsessing over the most trivial and useless of issues. I will never understand why some people seem to equate self-loathing of their own culture and being against their own survival with being “enlightened.” I guess some people need something to make themselves feel special and above everyone else, but you’d hope they’d pick something like accomplishment rather than suicidal self-loathing…
Cute. Now, read and heed. This will be my last response on the matter. –ST
Me neither! Maybe you are on to something with that “need to feel special”. Or perhaps it’s guilt from enjoying a relatively peaceful and happy life while so many people in the world have it so much worse. But in any case, the ’causes’ they champion seem utterly ludicrous to me. Being so close to an all out war with the islamofascists, the most important thing to a liberal is “Don’t spy on terrorists without a warrant!” Truly astounding.
You’re creating a straw man.
Nobody is arguing against eavesdropping on Al Qaeda. We have to do that, and we have to do that as aggressively as possible. I’m a New Yorker who was here on 9/11, and it sickens me to hear people who know nothing about 9/11 try to coopt this issue as if it were theirs alone.
What the BIPARTISAN critics of the eavesdropping scandal are concerned about is the fact that Bush violated the law. And we simply do not know WHO he was spying on. Judging by other recently revealed spying efforts, perhaps it was vegan rights groups, or those evil Quakers.
If it were Al Qaeda, the FISA court would have rubberstamped it faster than you can say formality. That leads many people to suspect it was not anyone connected to Al Qaeda. Why else circumvent this rubber-stamping, top secret court?
But the fact is, we simply don’t know, and nobody other than the NSA knows, because they broke the law and acted without judicial oversight. There’s been a long history of executive abuse of this spying power, which is why we made the FISA court in the first place, and history is repeating itself all over again.
Neat….good thread today. It’s amazing how fast a legitimate debate over the actions of our government turned into a mud-slinging spectacle reminiscent of the 4th grade. I can’t help but feel saddened by the tendency of some to attack others simply for asking legitimate questions. Beyond that, (here is your chance to attack me) if the program is in fact legal as the AG said yesterday, why not, as a few of the senators suggested, have the FISA court take a look at it? It will stay a “secret” and if it’s good then all those boobing about person liberty violations can shut their yaps. If there are problems with its legality, then fix it. I just can’t believe that with all the bright minds in Washington that the only option is “trust us”. It seems to me that if I had the p.r. problems that the Bush Administration does, this would be a perfect solution. No?
- If I were to give the Liberals some friendly advice it would be this. I’ve watched the constant aggressive attacks, debating tactics picked right from the pages of the Marx doctrine, and essentially zero real debate on any issues coming from the leftist people who visit this and other conservative blogs. Heres my advice, although theres absolutely no evidence it will be headed.
- Try a reasoned approach instead of adhominem attacks, stereotyping, and fabricated accusations and lies.
- Actually respond to the oppositions posts instead of veering off topic or topic expansion. If you see theres a point to the other persons comments, accept it gracefully instead of trying vainly to counter it with yet more disembling.
- Stop posing as “Independents” or Conservatives, only to be exposed by the very nature of your positions. theres nothing inherently wrong about being a Liberal, unless of course you don’t really believe the positions you take.
- Lastly, I for one will aggree to work hard to follow those same guidelines and one additional thing to sweeten the pot.
- I will write my state representatives in Congress and work to get all of you Liberals permenent draft deferments, so even if we have to protect the country in the future you won’t be called on. A permenent “get out of draft” card. thet should calm your fevored brows and let you debate without all of the mental pressures and stress of actually having to do anything for your country.
- Bang
“I will write my state representatives in Congress and work to get all of you Liberals permenent draft deferments”.
Or ask Bush and Cheney for theirs. They don’t need ‘em any more.
- Howell. the real issue here, the 800 pound gorrilla that neither side has talked about is that the FISA court itself does not apply in time of war. Got that. The president can do anything he and the other military operations/security functions deem neccessary, within the bounds of the Constitution, to meet his duties to protect the US and its citizens. Congress has no part in Executive operations in terms of conducting a war. Period. The only thing Congress can do is control appropriations. thats it. This whole FISA thing was designed for “non-war domestic” operations. It doesn’t apply.
The President is being nice and not putting you Liberal gadflys in your place. If he wanted to he could declare Marshall law. Theres many things he could do under the war powers of Art. II that would have you Liberals growing ulcers and foaming at the mouth.
- You are trying so hard to plant the seeds of susspician in the minds of the electorate, and they, we, are not buying it. Not only is this “the president isn’t to be trusted” a crock of BS, but worse you’re not even using a good argument. Give it up. Mentioning PR is a joke. The bad PR your leadership is getting from this witch hunt is priceless for the Republicans.
You don’t live in a Socialism. Though you may hate it, you live in a majority rule Representative Republic. As long as you play mental games with your heads you will never “get it”, ot ever get anywhere in fact, with the electorate. But as I said before. If you think this approach is a winning formula, go for it. I suppose if it was all I had I’d do the same, but I like to think if I were in your shoes I’d put the welfare of the Country ahead of partisan politics.
- Bang
thatniceguy wrote “Or ask Bush and Cheney for theirs. They don’t need ‘em any more.”
Bush served his country and was honorably discharged. Cheney is fair game.
And if Cheney is unavailable, you might as Old Yeller Dean. He doesn’t need his either and if you ask nice, he might sneak you on to the lift for free.
- BTW…. If any of you Liberals still think this craziness has any political gold, other than painting your party once again as devoid of common sense to the point of being suicidal, I personally would love to see the whole question of FISA being constitutional under war time conditions put before the SCOTUS. I have a feeling you would not.-
– But if you continue to push it at some point thats probably what will happen, and then you’ll get another trainload of “defeatist”, “weak on the WOT”, and “cut and runners” reps tacked onto those you already have. I don’t know. For people who consider themselves “elites” you certainly have a way of shooting your own feet.
- Bang
“Bush served his country and was honorably discharged…”
True. But Bang talked about getting draft deferrments for “Liberals”. Joining the National Guard at that time, was effectively that for Bush, and of course, you’ve agreed on Cheney.
Just found it too insanely ironic to ignore.
“..you might as Old Yeller Dean”
I hear you, but I’m not defending Dean, just holding up the mirror for Bang.
“…you’ll get another trainload of “defeatist”, “weak on the WOT”, and “cut and runners” reps tacked onto those you already have.”
So, you’re saying that they shouldn’t pursue this serious constitutional/legal issue based on the fear of name-calling?
I agree though that the Dems have a challenge winning over the electorate with even the most basic of facts when faced with the right-wing spin machine.
“Terrorist surveillance” indeed. Those in the know concede that the majority of those tapped were “cleared” by human agents. So, let’s see, we’re only listening to those with ties to Al-Qaeda, but the majority of people talking to Al-Qaeda operatives turned out to be innocent? Yeah, right. Sounds like the net is just a tad bigger than your favorite president wants you to know.
The whole thing is full of holes and unravelling as we speak.
The Dems don’t have to hype it, just frame it in the context of the overall ineptitude of this Administration in its “WOT”. No Bin Laden, No end in sight for Iraq (which by the way posed no imminent threat), no border control, failing grade on Homeland security, on and on.
Oh, but hey, the administration is really good at breaking the law and spying on Americans.
This whole deal should be the last straw, not the only one.
- Thanks thatguy….. but you can plant that mirror where the grass don’t grow….I served my country twice in two campaigns so stuff your condescending comments….
- I’m going to assume you brought up Cheney and Bush because somehow you’re jealous of them and/or afraid you might be called onto serve. Generally when this area is discussed you can pretty well tell the yellow stripers from the patriots by how many paragraphs they have to say, other than hell yes I’ll fight for my country. Anything else belongs in the trash….
- and just to show how out of touch and uninformed the left is, and why its so obviously a witch hunt, they don’t even describe the actual operations being carried on by NSA properly. In other words they’re arguing for the wrong reasons over something that isn’t even happening. Oh yeh. These are the sort of mental giants I want running the show. Right…. Thats the ticket.
- And before you launch into the usual uninformed leftist screed I will tell you I’ve worked in that area. Thats all I’ll say. The left is totally over the cliff on this one, and they’ll find that out the hard way in time. The Admin is giving them all the rope they need to hang themselves. I’m enjoying it…..
- Bang
It’s time to come to agreement people. I’m not saying that Thomas Sowell was the greatest American who ever lived and his statements are almost sacred. But can we agree that, other than Ronald Reagan, Thomas Sowell was the greatest American who ever lived and his statements are almost sacred?
I certainly can.
- I’d agree with the heart of his writing blogagog, if not the accuracy, because even he is not really aware of the true nature of the intercepts. But then after all they are “National defense secrets”. Apparently the left feel that since they’re out of power they suddenly have claims on anything and everything.
- I really laughed watching Gonzales giving his testimony. He had all he could do to keep from smiling, much less feel any “pressure” from the misguided Senators grilling him. The Democrats are looking for the “get Bush” pea under the shell without realizing the shell and the pea might as well be on another planet. That’s why he can say without reservation hes answered each and every question put to him honestly.
- Reagan…. Well what can you say…. Aside from being probably one of our greatest presidents he was also the showcase for just how wrong a party can be in every instance worth discussing. One hour after he was inaugurated the Iranians released the hostages. The leftist bleating started in earnest at the same time, all the way up until He shamed Gorbachev (after having dragged the Russians into a partially faked arms race that tore them apart financially – perhaps along with the Trojan horse one of history’s greatest rope-a-dopes) into tearing down the wall. You could hear the moonbat wailing from Berkeley to Anaheim. Looking back over the years I can’t think of anything the left every got right. The only real hope the Democrats have at this point, is if the moderates wrest back control and shut the left up before the party totally disintegrates…..
thatniceguy wrote “Joining the National Guard at that time, was effectively that for Bush” Wrong again. Bush’s service in the TANG was no cakewalk. The fact that you still think that means you are either a) an incurable nutjob, not interested in rational, informed debate, or b) are unaware of this website and link:
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0185.shtml
Aerospaceweb is hardly a partisan website. They are airplane afficianados. Take the five minutes it will cost you to read the whole thing. It won’t make you a supporter of Bush but it might make you appear less uninformed in the future. But that is really only a concern on right-center blogs, like this one.
Also, you might google “Palace Alert”, just for fun.
Dave
retired Colorado ANG
thatniceguy also wrote “right-wing spin machine”
Maybe so. But even you would agree that both sides spin, wouldn’t you?
Here is what the doncs don’t understand, thank God. Regular citizens see the issue as simply the NSA listening to calls between the Bad Guys That Want To Kill Us and Americans That Evidently Know Al_Queda Terrorists. They aren’t going to have a problem with that, now or in the future. The doncs have to employ the Scare Machine and try to convince the average Joe that he is being monitored when, in fact, that isn’t the case. Your side isn’t fooling enough people to overcome your complete lack of credibility when it comes to killing terrorists in the terrorist’s own backyard, instead of average Joe’s backyard. But good luck with that.
Dave
I totally agree BBH! It is going to take the left decades of textbooks to hush up all of the great things that Reagan did. Sadly, they will probably succeed
I doubt he did it for the glory though. Reagan was a man who truly loved his country. You could tell every time he spoke, and we all know he wasn’t acting… he was not a great actor 
No they never really succeed. They just keep on trying. Which is sort of funny when you think about it. People that like to pride themselves as the “elites” are the real victims of “hive thinking”.
- It just has to be this way, so I’ll keep changing the rules and/or story until it does. No true independent thinker does that or accepts it. So each generation of new Liberals goes through the same process of “rebelious” perfection. Eventually when they are educated enough to realize that everything they hear from someone else has an agenda, and its really not worth the convienience to avoid thinking for yourself, they start to do just that and become Conservatives. *chuckle*
- Bang
Bang said…”I served my country twice in two campaigns so stuff your condescending comments….”
It’s obvious that you served your country from the post you initiated questioning liberal willingness to do so. The mirror I was holding up wasn’t for YOU it was for your leaders, whom I’m fairly certain are NOT liberals. I wonder where you stood when Kerry was being attacked by the Swifties? Hmmm.
And by the way, thank you for your service. I sincerely mean that. It’s just too bad you demean it by unjustly and slanderously accusing liberals of being unwilling to serve. I wonder how many of your fellow servicepeople were democrats? I also wonder why all but one of the 10 Iraq War vets currently running for congress are running as democrats.
I’m sorry mr niceguy. I don’t see where what you are saying matches with Bang’s comments. Your accusation may be due to a reading comprehension inability? OK. That was uncalled for and not funny. But seriously, where did Bang question what you say he questioned?
Bang: “In other words they’re arguing for the wrong reasons over something that isn’t even happening… I will tell you I’ve worked in that area.”
You don’t have to work in the area to contrast FISA with what the president was doing.
That said, are you talking about the technology used to listen in on conversations for keywords/phrases/etc. by computer? Then the presentation of the most relevant conversations for human analysis? Because that’s what I was referencing. And according to experts in the area (you notwithstanding) the way that’s been conducted also contradicts Bush’s assurances regarding the limited nature of his program.
And by the way, how do you explain Bush’s blatant lie in his speech, where he assured us that “when you hear us talking about wiretaps, we’re talking about getting warrants”? (paraphrasing)