Earlier today Sen. Barbara Boxer scolded Condi Rice: Boxer, who was one of Rice’s most persistent critics during a contentious confirmation process last year, also recalled Rice’s warning before the 2003 Iraq invasion that the world could not afford …

You’re not sincerely equating that with what’s going on in Iraq now are you? I mean, you do see a difference, right?

Baklava: When will you get over the fact that the decision has already been made and we went?

That’s a hoot. My original post was admonishing you to do the same. If you look at the topic of this thread (in your title bar), you’ll see that it’s YOU GUYS who are still holding on and desparately trying to prove the WMDs were there. My post was telling you to get over it, b/c it had nothing to do with why we went to Iraq anyway. Ironic huh?

Baklava:“Are you one of those types who want to pull out immediately and let there be a bloodbath or are you one who wants to honor the people of Iraq and continue giving them their country and building that bridge.

When will you grow tired of that ridiculous false choice? That is such regurgitation of Bush admin propaganda crap and you should find it insulting to your intelligence.

Just so you know, Murtha had the best plan I’ve heard to date. Not because he’s a Democrat (in fact, they didn’t even line up behind it), but because he called the situation right and had a sensible military option. I’m sure this admin will adopt some form of it down the road, when it becomes obvious that there’s not much other choice. I just hope it’s sooner than later. I’m tired of hearing about the senseless dying over there.

Baklava: “…Japan and Germany…”

Don’t even bother with that comparison. Different countries, histories, influences, etc. Sheesh, U.S.S.R. vs. Afghanistan is more relevant than that nonsense.

And my original point was that it’s important to understand the real agenda b/c it’s a roadmap to the future and very much relevant to shaping the current debate. But, I guess you missed that with you ridiculous crying routine.

So, let me ask you directly: Are you saying that PNAC’s Pax Americana has nothing to do with our foreign policy, Iraq, etc.?

The month long bombing in 1998 didn’t happen? It did.

THe Democrats didn’t vote for the war in 2002? They did

Thatniceguy disagreed with going to war and is living in the past because that decision has long been gone. He said, “We still would have gone to war.

When will you get over the fact that the decision has already been made and we went? Saddam was removed. What? You want to put him back in power and go back in time? and say sorry? Geesh. HOW ABOUT MOVING FORWARD IN LIFE. Deal with reality. Why not debate on what we do now? Are you one of those types who want to pull out immediately and let there be a bloodbath or are you one who wants to honor the people of Iraq and continue giving them their country and building that bridge. Japan and Germany took 7 years and 10 years. We are only on the 10th year and we’ll have to hear thatniceguys all over continue LIVING IN THE PAST.

But I didn’t want to go mom. But mom…. I didn’t want to go. Moooommm. Why did we have to gooooo.

But the Dems you mention didn’t go to war (and don’t say b/c they didn’t have the guts–that’s tired). Nor had they authored the policies that PNAC authored. If they had, I’d say the same about them. Have you actually read the PNAC papers? The so-called “Bush-doctrine” is nothing but PNAC’s Pax Americana.

Mwalimu:
“Incidently, what about Severian’s point about the WMD that have been found (at least so far)?”

What about them? I didn’t say Iraq had none. I said it didn’t matter either way. We still would have gone to war. That’s according to what I believe is PNAC’s influence on this administration, the obvious cherry-picking, the revelations of many ex-admin officials, Bob Woodward, etc.

Mwalimu: “How many was Saddam allowed to keep? Or to put it another way – how many people does Saddam get to kill before he becomes a problem worth dealing with? How many “acts of genocide” does it take to make a genocide?

If it’s about stopping genocide, then why aren’t we in Darfur?

I will grant you this steve, most well-to-do people will not join the military, that much is a given.

BUT lower and middle class people are what make up the most if not ALL of the military.

Let me school you my small minded liberal…

The U.S. military is not a “poor man’s force.”

The data shows the force is more educated than the population at large.

Servicemembers have high school diplomas or the general equivalency diploma. More servicemembers have some college than the typical 18- to 24-year-olds. “To carry representativeness to the extreme, we would have to have a less-educated force or we would want a lower-aptitude force,” Gilroy said.
The study is part of DoD’s focus to bring the best recruits into the military. The services – who are responsible for manning, equipping and training the force – take this data and apply it to recruiting efforts.

The force is a volunteer force; no one is coerced into serving. The military is one option young people have after high school. Military service offers money for college – money a large segment of the population doesn’t have. For those people, the military is an attractive option.

Many young people who don’t yet know what they want to do see the military as a place to serve and decide what they want to do for the rest of their lives, rather than take a low-paying job or do nothing.

Critics say the U.S. military has too many African-Americans as compared to the population and not enough Hispanics or Asian-Americans. “We don’t recruit for race,” Gilroy said. “We have standards, and if people meet those standards, then should we say they are not allowed in because of race? That would be wrong.”

The statistics show the number of African-American servicemembers is dropping. That concerns Gilroy and his office. The military is a leader in equal opportunity in the United States, he said, adding that few, if any, Fortune 500 companies can match the equal employment opportunity record of the military. The office is studying why young black men and women are not signing up.

The office also is studying the Hispanic population in America. Census records say Hispanics are the largest minority group in the United States. Young Hispanic men and women have a strong tendency to serve in the military, though so far, only the Marine Corps has been “able to break the code” to get significant numbers of recruits, Gilroy said.

On the socioeconomic side, the military is strongly middle class, Gilroy said. More recruits are drawn from the middle class and fewer are coming from poorer and wealthier families. Recruits from poorer families are actually underrepresented in the military, Gilroy said.

Other trends are that the number of recruits from wealthier families is increasing, and the number of recruits from suburban areas has increased. This also tracks that young men and women from the middle class are serving in the military.

Young men and women from urban areas are not volunteering, Gilroy said. In fact, urban areas provide far fewer recruits as a percentage of the total population than small towns and rural areas.

DoD and the services will use these statistics and more to craft their recruiting policies, Gilroy said.

Link

Lets start with Pay:
Military Pay
If you were thinking the military is a “step-up” for most people then you are sadly mistaken. Some people take pay cuts when they join the military, which I find not fair at all. I think if anything our military should be well paid for the jobs and dangers they face.

Here is a pay chart by pay grade:
Pay Grade Chart

You want additional information on the Military, there is a wide assortment of information HERE

Training wise, you have basic training, your AIT (Advanced Individual Trianing – where you learn your MOS or job you trained for), then you have NCO training, Jump school training, Ranger Training, Jungle training (I had this with my unit), Special OPS, ect.

There is alot of training involved that push recruits and soldiers to the limits. It shows them what they are made of and what they can and can’t do.

I am not trying to sound like a recruiting poster, but the discipline I learned and training I received in the US ARMY I found very benefitial in my normal life in how to deal with problems, how to over come and adapt.

*chuckles* and how to catch a few winks on downtime. I can sleep through a major thunderstorm but be woken with just a little bit of light.

Anyways, if you have questions concerning the military and not lies or propaganda from the liberals, myself and others who have gone through the military will answer any question you put forth.

- Steve, you and your commie friends are digging you way right into political oblivion. Ideas like you just posted are intolerant, bigoted, racist, and almost every other form of prejudice possible to have….

Tell me again why the majority of Americans should take you and your ideas at all serious and vote for your party?

- Bang

- The problem with your “in other words” is your interpretation is the exact opposite of what he was trying to convey, and you know it…

- What he ment is you can’t help others if you’re weak yourself. Like you Steve. A weakling who wants others to join him in their cowering fear so he won’t feel so guilty.

- Wonder what the 128 family members I lost in WWII to the Nazi’s would have to say to people like you if their peaceful existance hadn’t been so rudely halted by a lunitic. There couldn’t have been a more peaceful and peace loving group of people than that, and you see what peaceful got them.

- the real problem with seditionists like yourself Steve, is that by not dealing with the realities of this imperfect world you generally get even more people killed.

- Besides its not really peace you want its a deferment so you won’t have to fight for the country you live off of. Why not show some real class for a change and just say that instead of hiding behind a lot of Leftist BS?

- Bang

While it may not agree with your peacable anarchist (oxymoron in itself) theories of leberal left I wish the world was mine so I could….

It does read more into how the Middle East would do things. If they can stone a woman for not wearing a scarf, then all victims should be allowed to stone the man who killed thier relatives, raped thier children, cut off hands and feet, carved out eyes or shot fathers and mothers in front of thier own families.

If he did that to me, I would like nothing more to do the same to him.

You just go about doing your yoga and thinking the world under your control would be such a pristeen place, a utopia, and when you come back down from smoking your bong we will welcome you back to the real world.

Until then there will be bad people, and good people, and victims.

What Saddam did was not a police matter.
Saddam the gang banger? Yeah right.
Death he dealt in, death he should get.

Fitting I think.

At least they may have some sort of cloture afterwards.