in the wrong era. Soundly refuting
liberals online since 2000. NOTE: That is NOT
me pictured at left. :)
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Audacity of Truth
"Diplomacy":
"People are saying what in the world is going on with North Carolina, we look like Mississippi." - NC Gov. Bev Perdue (D) on the passage of Amendment One, 5-11-12
The politics of fear: Hillary goes over the edge
Via Newsday:
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton slammed private-school voucher proposals yesterday, predicting that vouchers would eventually lead to the creation of taxpayer-financed white supremacist academies – or even a government-funded “School of the Jihad.”
[...]
“First family that comes and says ‘I want to send my daughter to St. Peter’s Roman Catholic School’ and you say ‘Great, wonderful school, here’s your voucher,’” Clinton said. “Next parent that comes and says, ‘I want to send my child to the school of the Church of the White Supremacist …’ The parent says, ‘The way that I read Genesis, Cain was marked, therefore I believe in white supremacy. … You gave it to a Catholic parent, you gave it to a Jewish parent, under the Constitution, you can’t discriminate against me.’”
As an adoring, if somewhat puzzled, audience of Bronx activists looked on, Clinton added, “So what if the next parent comes and says, ‘I want to send my child to the School of the Jihad? … I won’t stand for it.”
Sigh.
Michelle Malkin has the video here, and a link roundup of blogger reax.
Read John Hawkins’ post on this, too.
Related Toldjah So posts:
RSS feed for comments on this post.
As long as public money(vouchers), is used to support education, then “the people” or government must have a say in the standards and practices of the institution receiving that money. One of those practices is to NOT teach any specific religious thought or doctrine. Peace
Brian and I have different posts on this subject at Iowa Voice. Brian got 800+ hits from Michelle Malkin readers and I only have a few because I ask are Unions the Modern Saboteurs?
The Teachers’ unions are afraid of competition and losing their captive students. I know education would change for the better if tax dollars alloted for each student were to follow that student whether he/she be homeschooled, private schooled or public schooled.
Vouchers are working in Milwaukee, WI.
For one thing Steve its not PUBLIC money it is money that property owners (Are Forced) pay in county and city taxes that is use to fund Government Indoctrination Centers also know as Public Schools. Once again you miss the point that it is my money that the Government takes from me to fund the monopoly they call public schools. The Government or “The people” should not have any say so as to how or where I choose to sent my children for their education period. You are just showing your Socialist / Communist leaning by saying “The Government should decide” or “The people should decide” this is not a group thing it is up to me as an individual as to what is best for my kids! Why should the Government be aloud to run a monopoly when private industry can not!
Personally I think all public funding should end. Ok I know that isn’t realistic, but we do need to look in how we fund schools. Why should the elderly pay a tax for schools?? Those that use schools should be the ones funding it. Also higher education is completely out of hand in this country. I read recently that Northwestern University is going to start charging 45,000.00 per year for classes. THAT IS OUTRAGEOUS!!! We really need to take a long hard look at the craziness going on in our schools. – Lorica
Ohhh also I didn’t know that Cain was white.
Ahhhh Hillary we love the rhetoric. – Lorica
Lorica, I tend to agree with you but do disagree with you on this issue. But before I had kids I probably agreed with you.
No. Really. It is to America’s benefit that we have high education standards and everyone is educated with the hope of preparing them with the knowledge that is beneficial. I’d add economics 101, and other subjects also. While I know you agree with that I’m going to add that I think that grandma’s and people without kids benefit from a country where everyone around them is educated. Where I part with liberals is that private education costs money but costs less per pupil. Public schools cost too much. It makes sense to me to inject some market forces and have the public system compete and satisfactorily provide the service of teaching.
Let’s walk through an example. If CA spends $8,000 per pupil in public education and a parent believes their child wuold be better served in a private institution that costs $4,000 per year. It would be helpful if the parent sacrificed some but not to the tune of $4,000. The state could give the parent $3,000 towards the school of the PARENT’s choice. That would leave $5,000 in the public system for the NON-EXISTENT child (helping the public school system) and the parent could have a better educated child in a private system. The parent will be paying property taxes for their entire lives whether indirectly (through rent) or directly but everyone is helped by a better educated set of people around them.
Baklava and Lorica, John Stossel wrote and article and it also aired on ABC’s 20/20 call Stupid in America. If you get a chance please read John’s article it will hopefully show how deplorable the education system is in this country.
I love John. Thanks for the reading.
I liked this quote, “We’ve doubled per pupil spending, adjusting for inflation, over the last 30 years,
I once asked a liberal who was at a protest in dowtown Sacramento and wearing a shirt saying, “If you think education is expensive Try ignorance”… I asked that person, “Do you know what percentage of the CA budget is spent on education?”. The liberal (was ignorant – lord I apologize for that one) and didn’t know the answer. It was over 51% at the time. That means that the single item was more than all other budget items combined.
Speaking of a school of the Jihad, there is an Islamic “Camp” set up on Federal land here in Iowa. Mike Gallagher came to Iowa City to protest the granting of the lease by the Corps of Engineers when they would not lease similar land to the Boy Scouts.
Maybe when Hillary takes her meds, she can apologize.
What I like about John Stossel’s article is the fact that America stands for freedom of choice! But America doesn’t have much of a choice in education (Government monopoly) one of the most important things we can do for our kids and our country. Countries like Poland and Belgium have school choice and their kids are ahead of ours and it’s because of school choice the money follows the kids. Schools have to perform otherwise they won’t stay in business our main problem in this country is the Teachers Union! They will fight against school choice because they do not have to perform it’s a monopoly and service goes down the toilet. Just look at any Government service!
And don’t forget that Home Schooling parents are subjected to official harrassment in this country. Why? Because the independence they are showing is a threat to the Education Establishment.
The giveaway on that is that the issue of money is not raised. The parents pay their taxes, yet home-school their own children. Officials find this dangerous!
Communities used to decide for themselves how much to tax, because they paid the teachers and kept up the schools themselves. The Feds were not a part of the equation. They shouldn’t be now. There is no Constitutional basis for Federal intrusion into education. And no, steve, P’romote the General Welfare’ doesn’t allow it either!
Reality
Lorica wrote:
My older daughter is trying to get into MIT, and the cost is $44,000 a year. (That includes dorms.)
I vote that my tax dollars NOT go the the Defense Department, if we are all going to have a choice about where are tax dollars go. I’m all for taxing that’s why our roads are paved and the garbage gets picked up. Peace
Larry Elder on this subject !
steve wrote “I’m all for taxing that’s why our roads are paved and the garbage gets picked up.”
Hey, where steve lives the garbage is picked up by public employees. Cool! I have to pay $45 every three months. What a ripoff!
steve, are you LYING about this? Peas and carrots
Having had personal experience with public and private education, I applaud the above comments in their factual stances, but for the two typical perceptions of voters like steve. Though the rest of the posts bear repeating, I’ll assume most of us get it. As Jim has eloquently pointed out, the origin of these tax dollars extorted from land owners, speaks to the heart of an even bigger problem and improper precedence. PCD’s gold statement, just stomped on the main nerve of the entire teacher culture that has been created in this disgusting battle for education! Without going into any details regarding the extensive list of shortcomings in our Public “teaching system”, some of the systems employees own inabilities and others stemming from a flaccid system, the time for overhauling or replacing this vehicle was many years ago.
We still don’t have or need paved roads or garbage service, where I’m from. Nobody whines about it either. We landowners can’t afford to, what with buying sports stadiums and paying inane runoff fees and pointless permit fees and ……
The ultra high cost of these private universities is lunacy. Returning to school after many years I attend a state college with VERY high standards.
If I were an employer, I would look askance at anyone with an Ivy League education. After all, there would be a high probability of a political indoctrination.
I cannot see how Hillary is wrong about this voucher program going terribly wrong.
I know folks are concerned about the quality of education but education is also the responsibilty of parents. And I don’t hear any here taking one iota of responsibility. If we allow one sect of school voucher especially those those hate groups that hide behind whatever doctrine that they call their religion we must allow all of them.
I don’t have any problems with a parent paying for their childs educations. My parents sacrificed to send all of us(6 kids) to the best schools that we could get into and there were some that we didn’t get into. They also spent lots of time making sure we made our grades by helping tutor us. Most parents are vaguely involved in their childrens education. And consider it the schools sole or majority responsibilty to educate the students. This attitude is a total cop-out.
My parents are not the norm in this country. So I have a big problem with vouchers with using my tax dollars for hate based education.
The only thing these vouchers will accomplish is dragging down the quality of private education to the dismal levels of public education and enabling hate based, religious and sectarian proponents get a stronghold in our society.
So quit crying about how expensive school is and crack the books, work unbelievably hard and earn a scholarship. Not everyone is meant for education. The world needs ditchdiggers too you know.
It’s amazing how people who call themselves conservative are all of a sudden crying out for welfare money for school. Work harder, get a second or third job, quit financing or leasing new cars, live in house you can actually afford to buy without taking a 20-30 year mortgage and stop living on credit instead of paying cash. In short live within your means. Do whatever it takes. My folks did and so do I. The only future of debt is more debt.
$45,000 for MIT or Northwestern is still a bargain for that level of education. There is nothing wrong with community college either. They both have there place in this world.
Bak while I understand what you are saying, and agree with you, you yourself establish the argument against yourself. I give CA credit for educating children that belong to the country of Mexico, which they should bill Mexico for annually. With that being said, look at your figures and look at how little benefit the people of CA get for those dollars. Has funding for schools ever gone down?? I would suspect the answer is No. Yet the rate of population is declining. The Baby Boomers children peaked in the late 70′s early 80′s. I graduated from Davenport West High School in 1981 along with 968 other students. The year ahead of me graduated with 981 students in the senior class, the largest senior class in the 50 year history of the school. My younger brother graduated in 1983 with only 955 seniors. We all know that population figures are going down. So why do we need more money in education?? If there are a third less students the education system should only need 75 percent of the cash they once used. Accounting for incidentals and increase in expenses and income, inflation, yada yada yada. I want to know why, with more money and few students, education in this country is in the sorry state it is in. It is time to compete for those tax dollars Bak. It is time for those that receive no direct benefit from these taxes to be free of them, including home schoolers. Schools and Teachers should perform for the funding that receive. That is the greatness of private education, they don’t take their funding for granted. – Lorica
Ohhh and Steve you do receive a direct benefit from the military, it is called not being forced into a facist form of government. The US military has been a force for peace for almost the last 100 years. Peace, thru strength, not fantasy thinking. – Me again
GBA I just love the ability you have to judge and not know. I am a 42 year old male, and am not married and have no children due to some of the things you mentioned. Some of us conservatives are smarter than the norm, but thanks for painting us all with that broad brush of judging. Good Luck in this life. – Lorica
Lorica,
Who is judging? I am stating a fact of how many parents operate with regard to their childrens education.
What’s wrong with hard work and studying in earnest?
What is wrong with fiscal responsibilty?
Personally I don’t understand what your age, family status has anything to do with the giving welfare vouchers for education.
I never implied or inferred anything concerning the intelligence of conservatives. That would be our pal Steve.
I was just pointing out that we have more than our fair share of hypocritical self righteous religious zealots in this country and I don’t see the need to use tax money to further hate based education. Do you?
Davenport, Iowa? Iowa being ranked number one in the US for public education. The Iowa public education system rivals many of the best private schools in the country.
I think your telling Noah about the flood.
GBA said – “I don’t see the need to use tax money to further hate based education. Do you?”
- Lets see. Would force feeding children the idea that “this is a material secular world that was a supreme accident, and there is no higher power” be something you might consider as hate based education?
- Me, I’d call that a pretty good indication of anti-religious bigotry, wouldn’t you?
- Bang
Bang,
I am Orthodox Catholic.Do you know waht that means. And I generally consider my religion to be a private and personal matter not fodder or fuel for political gain.
Stop kidding yourself.
That was a good way too NOT answer my question as usual. I didn’t question your religiousity. I didn’t make any mention of you or your beliefs whatsoever. I asked a simple question. why not just give your opinion? Do you or do you not think thats a form of bigotry?
- Bang
What business does religion…any religion have to do with good government?
Are implying that we should live in a theocracy?
Should religious entities be allowed to impose their beliefs and moral ideology on entire communities?
Do you want your religion to dominate society?
I don’t see how justice can be served unless you keep the church…whatever church out of the business of government.
I can’t speak for everyone but I’ll take democracy over theocracy anyday of the week.
I am against and will always be against religious supremecy with regard to government.
But to each his own.
- Ok. Thats a good “non-personal” position. But. What does the type of education your children are exposed to have to do with religion in government. When did the public school system stop being about education and start being about politics? Theocracy?. Thats silly. I’m not implying anything of the sort. I asked a simple question, and I’m still waiting for a straight yea or nay answer.
- Bang
Said GBA The only thing these vouchers will accomplish is dragging down the quality of private education to the dismal levels of public education and enabling hate based, religious and sectarian proponents get a stronghold in our society. So we are in agreement that public education is in the toilet…I am with you there..but could one not read what you wrote to also say that you really aren’t for mixing your kind of people with those kind of people? I ask that, because it would follow exactly along the lines of what Hillary said..it’s okay to have a WASP school, or an all Jewish School, but God forbid we allow the bigots
Now let’s break down what is actually wrong with that premise for which you stand behind…The private schools will remain private and not be under goverment control. Parent’s will be given a voucher to offset the price of the education that they deem to be appropriate for their child. As it stands in the public schools…the price per student is going up but that is to off-set the money needed for the teachers/unions.
The answer is no.
And this is where we differ.
I remember reading somewhere that the vast majority of Americans are of the Christian persuasion. Something like 80%.
But I don’t equate that majority as a ticket to integrating government with theology.
I see the business of religious education as a personal responsibilty and that is why we have Sunday School. I see the business of religion to be the exclusive property and domain of the church. It’s a sort of “leave it to the professionals” attitude.
The reverse is bigotry in my eyes.
Religious imposition cannot promote justice. It’s impossible.
Pam,
I see what you are saying. But it’s not exactly waht I was getting at.
Which was that this type of action with regard to public welfare vouchers for education has a tremendous propensity for abuse and missuse. It also does leave open the door for financing hate based education at the expense to all taxpayers. That’s it. If we give to one we must give to all. There is just no way around that. Without violating someones Constitutional rights. Even hate groups have the same rights as you and I. So I don’t even want to consider the good knowing that I must also accept the evil.
“Religious imposition cannot promote justice. It’s impossible.”
- Exactly. Now heres the reason for my question, and why I think you’re wrong thats its not just another form of predjudice.
- Science is a wonderful tool, providing us with many of the benefits we enjoy in this world. To the extent that people understand thats all it is, just another tool. When science steps in and tries to promote an idea that runs counter to the majority of people beliefs, it goes astray. I won’t go into all the specifics, but believe me when I say at the very core of science, its just as much a case of “faith” as any other enterprise you can think of. We do a pretty good job with our tools. But. For everything we can answer there are 1000 even more impoortant things we can’t. Honest scientists will admit that. I know. I’m a scientist.
Sooooooo. what I’d say is creationism should not be taught in schools AND darwinism, which no matter how hard they howl is still just a theory, should ALSO not be taught in schools unless the person chooses that as a part of his career in the nature sciences.
- Or. Teach ALL the points of view. One or the other. As soon as you promote a particular view of things, you’re “preaching”, just as surely as if you were teaching Catholocisim, or Judeism, or Mulsim, or any of the faiths.
- You can teach science perfectly well with out getting into the origins of things. When people insist on doing that, I have to believe they have an “agenda”, and THAT is where politics get into the picture.
- Bang
But we do already support hate groups with public funds GBA, so that arguement doesn’t wash. Everytime the KKK or another White Supremist group rallies, our tax money pays to protect their free speech with a police force. If that is the type of education that a parent wants their kid to have, than so be it. At least it will be isolated to that school. It is a strawman arguement. Both of us know this has nothing to do with hate groups..this has everything to do with breaking the back of the education unions..that is the only reason that Hillary would oppose such a thing..a major donor to her campaign is pulling her strings. Note how she offered no alternative to this..just stay with the status quo..so what if our school systems are failing the majority..
…and Pam, you’re absolutely right. The Unions are scared silly that the majority of people would mass exit from the public mess and they’d lose their financial base, along their political clout, and the game would be up on the whole circus.
- Bang
Pam,
Allocations to protect free speech of hate groups or any other group will never approach the amount of money spent on public education. And that spending is unelective and mandated by the Constitution.
This issue is elective spending and a moderately new concept.
Why do folks break out with the “Strawman” thing. I would rather hear a strong articulate argument than meaningless colloquialism.
I have no problem with educators personally. I think we should pay qualified teachers top dollar and top benefits. I have no problems with the Teachers Unions. I support the unions. Unions built this country. I love labor, and I encourage everyone to work hard and strive toward self determination.
That does not mean you are wrong about Hillarys’ motives.
It’s a personal position.
Bang,
Congruent!
It’s better to not teach either unless it’s elective. Incidently there is a new cirriculum in several public schools that teaches the impact of the Bible and Christianity on history, the arts and the sciences. And from what I understand having not reviewed it personally the publisher has gone to great lengths to keep it within the parameters of the Constitution.
I have no problem this. It’s not some sneaky way to introduce creationism into public school. But instead an honest look at a text that has had a profound effect on the modern history of the world.
And that spending is unelective and mandated by the Constitution. Please point it out to me in the constitution.
Also, I beg to differ on who built this country…This country was built by many people from all walks of life..some union members and some not..They unions have done many things, but they did not build this country single handidly.
Why do folks break out with the “Strawman” thing. I would rather hear a strong articulate argument than meaningless colloquialism. when faced with a strawman arguement, I usually point it out..if you had a strong articulate arguement, the term would not have been thrown out there..
Pam,
Are you an enemy of organized labor?
Do understand why people organize?
Do you relaize that unions are on the way down?
Organized labor had its place in history, I am not so sure it still does anymore. There has been alot of problems with the Unions, especially here in Michigan which will not budge, even when the members want something, they refuse, and now those members are out of a job. Unions are becoming part of history, not sure if it is still needed or not, personally, I don’t think so.
Same goes for Affirmative Action. There was once a time when this was needed greatly, but now, I am not so sure anymore if it is needed as much as it was back then. If it isn’t more of a hinderance than a help to those that say they need it.
An enemy? Are you a Freshman in debate 101?
Am I the enemy?
That is rich! Do I understand why they organize? No I don’t, I have many theories, but no I still can’t figure out why a person in 2006 would “organize”. I live in Michigan and I am seeing what is happening to the “organized” shops…they are closing..funny but the “un-organized” shops are booming! 
I do so love to hear the union members cry about the executives wage packages…last time I looked, the best place to work in a union was at the top running the union..those packages are out of this world…and they never seem to be in fear of losing their jobs or their pensions!
Pam asked making me smile, “but no I still can’t figure out why a person in 2006 would “organize”.”
More than half of those who are organized now are in government. Like here in CA. To be a state worker you have to give to the union about $50 or so per month. State workers have had MORE in union due increases than pay raises!!
The funny thing is government employees have ALWAYS (even before unions) received mediocre pay and good benefits. Now after so many union dues they still get mediocre pay and good benefits.
Talking to union members though they say/think:
1) They wouldn’t have as much in pay or benefits without the unions.
2) Their pay/benefits would be reduced if the evil Republicans had their way.
Isn’t that fantastic! Only in America! Propoganda wins the day! And Democrats gain a way of getting their mesage out !!!!
And while I work for the state of CA as a contractor would I ever work as an employee? NO! Because my union dues would just be siphoned off to the DNC to continue that propoganda. Too bad for the state…. And even better for me!
Bak- That is something that I just can’t figure out. You laid out a very basic explanation and yet there are thousands that just don’t get it! IMO, it is noting more than a pyramid scheme in many cases. Another thing I don’t understand is why the union is not responsible for a % of a failed pension plan..why is it the responsibility of the government? Look at the billions sitting in Union coffers!
- Unions, as with any Socialistic grouping, only has value as long as it has a viable goal. As soon as a Union “matures” it becomes a yoke around the adherents necks, and stifles all manner of personal acheivement or advancement. Thats the reason Socialistic/Communistic/Marxism based systems fail totally at some point. the end game for all Socialism is absolute tyranny.
- Bang
- Or to put it more succinctly:
“Every refuge has its price…..”
- Bnag
From the Chicago Tribune:
All day, Judy Rowe sits in a room at a large, old Delphi Corp. auto parts plant here, reading, sewing or staring into space.
For this she earns $31.80 an hour.
There are 70 people in this room, all employed by Michigan-based Delphi and protected by the United Auto Workers union. They clock in at 6 a.m. and clock out at 2:30 p.m.
But there is nothing for them to do.
“I think I’m slipping into a depression,” said Rowe, who has been languishing for six years in this strange and very unique form of unionized employment limbo known as the jobs bank.
If there was work to do, they would be on the manufacturing lines. But there isn’t. And they can’t be laid off because their union contracts include this unique provision.
The jobs bank is a bullpen of sorts for surplus workers. It was designed two decades ago as a temporary haven that has become a permanent and expensive catch basin for declining auto industry companies.
There are 4,000 workers in the jobs bank at Delphi, which has filed for bankruptcy, and an additional 6,300 in the jobs banks at struggling Ford Motor Co. and General Motors Corp. There are 2,500 more at Chrysler.
At the Delphi East plant in Flint, they get their full salaries for sitting in a large room.
When I went to work for Eastern Airlines (EAL) as a non-contract employee there were 45,000 employed at the largest domestic carrier in the U.S. I thought that I would retire from EAL with a good retirement and flight benefits for life. During the “80′s” it was a tough time for the airlines the cost of fuel (adjusting for inflation) was higher than it is today. With higher fuel costs and deregulation (It never should have been regulated) carriers like EAL, Pan Am, Western, TWA and others had an anchor that was holding them back from being able to change with the times. This anchor were the unions that had a choke hold on the airlines at one point Frank Borman (President of EAL) was asking all the employees for a 20% pay cut to keep the airline going. Everyone accepted the pay cut except the IAM (Mechanics and Baggage handlers) the union president Charlie Bryant said they wanted an 8% pay raise! Frank Borman said everyone will have to take a pay cut or he will sell the airline Charlie Bryant said you are bluffing and wouldn’t back down from the 8% raise. Borman sold the airline to Frank Lorenzo of Texas Air (Continental Airlines) Lorenzo sold off parts of EAL some to his own Airline for pennies on the dollar. Finally the show down between Lorenzo and the IAM the mechanics and the baggage handlers went on strike EAL could have survived the strike except the Pilots Union decided to honor the strike and not cross the line. The Pilots put the nail in the coffin on January 19, 1991 Eastern Airlines grounded all its aircraft and closed its doors. I had to work two weeks past that date as EAL was contracted to do the load planning for two international airlines until they could replace us. It was an eerie and sad sight as I walked through “C Concourse at Atlanta’s Hartsfield Airport all the lights were out not one soul in the concourse except me and all the planes at the gates were silent. I remember watching TV and one of the union idiots shouting “We Won, We Won” I am still asking myself what did they win?
I pose the question Have the Unions Become Modern Saboteurs?
A number of years back at a monthly function called the Crackerbarrel where local Iowa reps and state senators take a few selected questions from the public, State Sentator Mike Conolly pandered to the UAW in saying that John Deere should be forced to pay workers for hearing loas no matter what the cause. Connolly went on to says that he didn’t believe that anyone should have a Billion Dollars. (The chump was a leading campaigner for the Billionaire Heinz-Kerry ticket in 04.)
The unions are killing theit golden goose. The automakers and airlines aren’t the only victims, just the ones most weakened.
Iowa has lost a lot of union jobs due to union leadership greed and corruption.
PCD, could you believe that it was in the union handbook during Eastern Airlines heyday; That if a baggage handler fell asleep in the cargo bins of the aircraft and found themselves in flight they could open people’s baggage and use the clothing to stay warm! Then when they were flown (at company expense) back to the city they were working at they would still have a job! Unions are a great example of Socialism at its finest and I applauded Reagan for firing all those air traffic controllers when they went out on strike! They were stupid enough to strike when they signed papers stating as government employees they were not allowed to strike. The same thing needs to happen to the teachers union!
People in power maintain that power because most people are so stupid that they vote against their own best interests. Look at all the people voting for the corrupt and greedy Republican Party. Peace