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Audacity of Truth
"Diplomacy":
"People are saying what in the world is going on with North Carolina, we look like Mississippi." - NC Gov. Bev Perdue (D) on the passage of Amendment One, 5-11-12
Buckley’s been a skeptic on Iraq for some time
Conservative icon and NRO Editor William F. Buckley, Jr. created quite a stir last week when he came out and essentially said we’ve lost in Iraq. The popular sentiment seemed to be that he, as a staunch conservative, was a strong supporter of the Iraq war who had resigned himself to the belief that we’d lost there.
Ramesh Ponnuru at NRO reminds everyone that Buckley has been a skeptic of the Iraq war for quite some time:
William F. Buckley Jr. has been skeptical about the Iraq venture for some time. Two years ago he said that if he had known before the war that Saddam Hussein had no WMD, he would have opposed the war. The mosque bombing appears to have been the final straw for him. He now says that it is beyond doubt that “the American objective in Iraq has failed.” It is time for an “acknowledgment of defeat.”
This is a refinement and extension of Bill’s position in response to new circumstances. It’s not a case in which a full-throated supporter of the war turned on it and came out for an immediate withdrawal. He wasn’t a full-throated supporter of the war, and he hasn’t (yet?) come out for immediate withdrawal. Still, his pronouncement strikes me as important (even allowing for the bias that comes from working in the House of Buckley).
I myself think that Bill’s conclusion is premature. It could very well be vindicated by events, although obviously I hope it won’t be.
In other words, the lefties who are trying to spin this as being the same as Howard Dean’s position on the Iraq war are incorrect. Howard Dean was never a supporter of the Iraq war from the word go. Buckley’s position has gradually changed over time. It wasn’t a case of going directly from staunch support to believing we lost.
Others blogging about this: Captain Ed, Mark Noonan at Blogs For Bush, Flopping Aces, Decision ’08 (preachin’ to the lefty “Bush supporters are cultists” whiners – heh), UNCoRRELATED, Below The Beltway
Related Toldjah So post:
RSS feed for comments on this post.
“In other words, the lefties who are trying to spin this as being the same as Howard Dean’s position on the Iraq war are incorrect. ”
Also a skeptic for a long time.
You have to admit that when Bill Buckley openly defects from the cause and declares the mission a failure, it puts the war hawks and “true believers” in bit of an awkward position.
I don’t know what Howard Dean has to do with this other than providing a bit of deflection. I’m not aware of the “leftie spin” you refer to. Most lib/Dems are quite happy to let Buckley’s statement stand on its own merits. No spin required.
andrew: “Also a skeptic for a long time. ”
ST: No. Howard Dean has never been an Iraq war supporter.
RT: “I don’t know what Howard Dean has to do with this other than providing a bit of deflection. I’m not aware of the “leftie spin” you refer to.”
ST: LINK
Linking to Greenwald’s site to prove there is a “leftie spin” about Dean vis-a-vis Buckley’s accurate assessment, does not prove your point. Greenwald is not a leftie. I’ve read his blog since its inception, and a good number of his views could not be characterized as left. (He has made it very clear he thinks those Danish cartoons should be broadcast far and wide, and that there is a big problem with Muslim extremists chilling speech by, you know, killing people. He also wrote a post condemning fashionable, European anti-Americanism.)
Opposing Bush does not ipso facto render one a leftie. Indeed, I’m libertarian and I oppose Bush because (among other things) he is a populist, and populism is not conservative in the ways I like conservatism.
“Linking to Greenwald’s site to prove there is a “leftie spin” about Dean vis-a-vis Buckley’s accurate assessment, does not prove your point. Greenwald is not a leftie. I’ve read his blog since its inception, and a good number of his views could not be characterized as left.”
LOL. Surrrre he’s not!
“ST: No. Howard Dean has never been an Iraq war supporter.”
Right. He’s always been a skeptic. A skeptic for a long time.
I think its fantastic that when 1 group mentions that WFB is against the war, this is dismissed by pointing that he has been against the war for a while. That logic doesn’t quite work.
My contention all along…
People can’t get over that the decision was made. It was made people. We are going on three years past that decision. We can’t just implant Saddam back in power and leave. We need to be RESPONSIBLE and do right as we did post WW2 for Japan and Germany.
Q1: What would make you people who are against the war happy?
Q2: What should we do now that we are in a war you don’t want to be in from today onward?
I’d like to know.
andrew: “Right. He’s always been a skeptic. A skeptic for a long time.
I think its fantastic that when 1 group mentions that WFB is against the war, this is dismissed by pointing that he has been against the war for a while. That logic doesn’t quite work. ”
ST: You know what, andrew? I truly do now believe that you really can’t possibly be as naive and ill-informed as you let on here at the board: it’s deliberate. Howard Dean has NEVER SUPPORTED THE IRAQ WAR – DIDN’T THINK WE EVER NEEDED TO BE THERE. WFB DID support the Iraq war initially but was a skeptic of it shortly thereafter, when it became clearer that the WMD we thought would be there were not.
Got it? Don’t badmouth my logic when you’ve got a high mountain to climb when it comes to ever making sense!
Andrew wrote, “That logic doesn’t quite work.
What logic would work for you…. That he supported it (not fact) until this latest mosque bombing and now he’s convinved it’s the wrong war at the wrong time?
Sorry reporting facts is what’s the right thing to do and the legacy media seems to be not all over it.
“. Howard Dean has NEVER SUPPORTED THE IRAQ WAR – DIDN’T THINK WE EVER NEEDED TO BE THERE. WFB DID support the Iraq war initially but was a skeptic of it shortly thereafter, when it became clearer that the WMD we thought would be there were not.”
Both have been skeptical of the war for a long time. Dean was first to reach that opinion. I don’t see whats the big deal that people are realizing he was right.
I don’t see how it helps the holdouts on the war to point out that WFB has for awhile now seen that this war was wrong.
The term ‘deliberately obtuse’ comes to mind here. I advise you to straighten up, andrew, or maybe another mini-break might be in order for you.
Andrew wrote, “I don’t see how it helps the holdouts on the war to point out that WFB has for awhile now seen that this war was wrong.
I don’t see how it helps to for 3 years continue to be against a war in spite of the fact that the decision was made 3 years ago. Move on!
You can’t move time backwards.
If I am not mistaken, Dean came out as severely against the war during the elections, mainly cause he needed an edge.
Not that it did him any good mind you.
YEEEEEAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHH!!!
When you make a very big mistake, especially one that causes death, it is best to review, in depth, how the mistake happened so that it will never happen again. Two types of people supported this war: those that should have known better and the rest of you. WFB, should have known better and will now pay a price for his “error”. bush is in the same catagory. The news media should have known better and have tried to repent so they will get a bye. Except for FOX News. Regular citizens were lied to and manipulated as was the military so they are innocences. Peace
“The term ‘deliberately obtuse’ comes to mind here.”
Oh I get what you’re saying. WFB used to be for the war. Now he has come around to Dean’s position on it. WFB is a conservative: his mind moves slow to the correct position. He was opposed to the Civil rights movement. Just like the Iraq war it took him a while.
“I don’t see how it helps to for 3 years continue to be against a war in spite of the fact that the decision was made 3 years ago.”
Because we’re still making decisions about this war.
We are talking 3 years ago still Andrew? It isn’t “now” he has come around to Dean’s position. Sheesh.
Get over it already. You just disagreed with the decision that was made 3 years ago.
Yes. We are still making decsison. Not to cut and run. We are making that decision daily.
Good thing also. And the increase in troops this year was made by the generals (highlighting that Bush has said that it is up to the generals they get what they want).
The pentagon (unknown to liberals) plans the war and carryies it out (unknown to liberals) and Bush has left it up to the experts to continue making the right decisions.
You just don’t like them.
“Get over it already. You just disagreed with the decision that was made 3 years ago.”
Um, that decision is still here. With us.
“The pentagon (unknown to liberals) plans the war and carryies it out (unknown to liberals) and Bush has left it up to the experts to continue making the right decisions.”
So we can’t blame Bush for how things have turned out? ok. I won’t
Um. That decison was made. We have removed the government and now can’t leave it. Just like we didn’t leave Japan and Germany after removing their government.
So you can’t blame Bush for how things have turned out?
No. You can’t. He didn’t plan the war. Liberals who don’t know this insist that he planned and carried out the war. It only shows liberals lack of knowledge. The pentagon has hundreds of plans that are ready for whoever is president for a number of countries. Bush had repeatedly after chosing an option chosen allowed the generals in the field (not others) to choose what they need/want.
Mr.Buckley is simply a man with an opinion. He puts his pants on one leg at a time, like everyone else. He is free to change his mind for whatever reason he sees fit and says so. It’s America, that sort of thing is common.
His past efforts are why his opinion has as much respect as it does. It doesn’t guarantee that whatever he thinks or his words spoken are facts, true or the right thing to do. We will disagree on to proceed as a normal function in the decision making process. My opinion on Mr. Buckley is more inline with Severian’s 2/24/06 11:51 post. I have no problem cutting him loose, so to speak. If you have some kind of metaphorical gangrene attached to your body like a Sheehan for example, open the gate and let her do a little free range (until and if she has a salvageable mind).
The WOT will not end in Iraq or soon. When the timing is right to move on from Iraq and no sooner, had damn well better be the answer, when referencing the scale back in Iraq . The WMD moved by Russian forces into Syria, apparently don’t count as WMD’s in Mr. Buckleys mind, or did I miss something there.
“Um. That decison was made. We have removed the government and now can’t leave it.”
Of course not. We broke it, we’re responsible for fixing it.
“No. You can’t. He didn’t plan the war.”
Yup. No responsibility for it.
Just to clarify Baklava…are you maintaining that due to the fact the war department (or whomever) “planned and carried out” the war and not President Bush himself, it is the war dept and not the President who should shoulder the blame for any mistakes…or more percisely, for the position in which we now find ourselves?
oops..”precisely”
He has said words of responsibility for making the decision.
But you… you will rag on that decision for the next 3 years???
What’s the purpose? It’s like ragging on the decision to remove Germany or Japan’s government from power. We made it and you should back the reconstruction because it’s IN OUR BEST INTERESTS
“But you… you will rag on that decision for the next 3 years??? ”
‘rag’? We’re still in a war. He’s still saying he was right. The war is something now, not something from years ago.
“We made it and you should back the reconstruction because it’s IN OUR BEST INTERESTS”
It sure is in our interests to get out of this mess.
“He’s still saying he’s right”
That my friend is how immature you are. You want to control him and make him say he was wrong and what good would that do? What president would do that no matter how many Andrew’s of the world insist. Grow up.
“It sure is in our interests to get out of this mess”
Now you are thinking of now. I see you growing up already…
In order to get out we need to do what we did with Japan and Germany and stick to it with the least amount of you folks giving aid and comfort to the enemy….
“That my friend is how immature you are. You want to control him and make him say he was wrong and what good would that do?”
So long as he argues he’s right, its awright to argue he’s wrong. Its today we still discuss the war.
” In order to get out we need to do what we did with Japan and Germany and stick to it with the least amount of you folks giving aid and comfort to the enemy….”
Oh I’m giving aid and comfort? Great. Come and give me my death penalty for treason.
It’s awright?
No. It’s not really. You are hurting the effort.
It’s today we discuss reconstruction and how much better off the Iraqi’s are.
Q: Oh I’m giving aid and comfort?
A: Yes.
Comment: Come and give me my death penalty for treason.
Reply: No. I’d rather have you grow up and stop being so detrimental to the U.S.’s interestes. But you want to act in Andrew’s interests…
Citizen’s Band wrote, “Just to clarify Baklava…are you maintaining that due to the fact the war department (or whomever) “planned and carried out” the war and not President Bush himself, it is the war dept and not the President who should shoulder the blame for any mistakes
First, it’s the pentagon or “Defense Department” not “War Department” as not very funnily called it.
Second, Mistakes? You can Monday morning quarterback any military action. We lost more soldiers in a month’s period in Vietnam than this war in Iraq. We lost more soldiers in certain week’s periods in WW2. While you want to act all smart being a monday morning quarterback, rest assured, it doesn’t make you look smart at all. It just makes you look like you disagreed with going to war. That decision my friend was 3 years ago. That’s being “stuck on ——”. You fill in the blank. You like being stuck? Or you want to fast forward to what we do now?
Heck you can summarize this whole thing.
Majority of Democrats, especially far left liberals are still bemoaning why we went in, and the only “plan” they have is to pull out and leave. Immediately.
Majority of Republicans tend to be concentrating on what the troops need, how to bring both sides together in IRaq, helping form the Government there, talking to the troops and getting progress on how things are going so they can plan the slow withdrawl of troops from Iraq as the Iraqi Military becomes more and more dominant and can handle things on thier own.
We still get those who bemoan why we went in but they fail to realize what is done is done, we are there NOW and we damn well better realize that fact real quick.
Quit looking to the past and look to what can be done NOW and in the FUTURE. I am fine if and when this is all over with you want to have all the investigations you want, but that should be done AFTER we are out and not while we are still in there.
An immediate withdrawl is not a plan, and most Americans know this.
You want to have a plan, here are some clues on what should be done:
* Don’t say you support the troops if you don’t support the mission they are on. The troops aren’t stupid, they know this is rhetoric.
* Send care packages, send Calling Cards, send a thank you note to a veteran who is in the hospital. Do NOT send a fake card thanking a wounded veteran for killing women and children. That is plain ignorant and disgusting.
* TALK to the troops. You want to know what is going on? Talk to the troops, they have first hand knowledge which is even better than the garbage of negativity we get fed from the media.
* Want to support the troops? See one getting food? Step up and pay for the soldiers food. Show him/her that you care. Believe me, it makes a helluva difference to a soldier to see he has support at home and he is not forgotten.
* Make sure soldiers have what they need. They have enough armor, in fact they have too much in which they have been stripping it off because it bogs them down with too much weight. Find out if they need anything else and if they are not getting it….get your congressman involved.
You want them home? So do I.
They are my brothers and sisters that are over there and I want them home whole and healthy.
But I, like them, know that this needs to be finished. We cannot abandon the Iraqis just when they are starting to take thier first steps. We are there to support them till they can handle being a deomcracy on thier own. They are willing to fight for it. Believe me, they are.
What the hell? I just asked for a clarification and with all of your rhetoric bantering you still didn’t answer my question.
I challenge you to search the archives and find so much as one word I have spoken about the war in Iraq. You have no idea what my views are relative to that subject. Fine, poke fun at my inferior intelligence relative to terminology if it gets you off. Even, if you’re so inclined, think up some more elloquent acronym’s to show how clever you are.
But at the end of the day Baklava, all that these things prove is that you’re an insecure bully that is incapable of participating in an open dialog without brow-beating anyone and everyone you inaccurately preceive as thinking differently from yourself.
The worst thing about it is…that you obviously have some talent for the written word and because of this there will always be those that assume you know what you are talking about. But Baklava, anyone can spend “countless hours” in the library ammassing knowledge..facts, figures, even impressive vocabulary…but having knowledge doesn’t make you wise.
Wisdom Baklava, is knowledge and intelligence based on experience and goverened by prudence two things which you obviously failed to gain in your “countless hours” of research.
As for everyone else, whether you agree or disagree with the reasons we entered Iraq, how the campaign is being run, or what we should do there tomorrow…what good comes from trying to decide ‘when’ Buckley changed his mind about anything? Or whether Howard Dean ever supported the war in the first place? Talk about monday morning quarterbacking!
How about some real solutions? What are your ideas?
See that’s the issue with our current climate. It’s much safer (with poeple like Baklava lurking about) to bash someone else’s ideas than voice your own. I would challenge everyone to make an actual attempt to offer real solutions. Be original, think outside of the box. At the very least you’ll be entertaining to the rest of us and at best, you might actually find the answer to a real problem. You decide.
“Reply: No. I’d rather have you grow up and stop being so detrimental to the U.S.’s interestes. But you want to act in Andrew’s interests…”
I think its in our interests to fix this mess and to recognize what caused it: wrong decisions.
Sannity, nice post re the troops.
It hit the bullseye….Put up or Shut Up!
I don’t know why you would applaud such a juvenile post. Except for the portion about sending supplies and encouragement for the troops, that was drivel. The majority of Republicans seem to be concerned with getting themselves re-elected to Congress is what he should say. The best decision for these troops, especialy the over 25,000 casualities would have been not to have been sent to a war that may prove to only hurt America’s interests. And Democrats stood on the right side of that decision, but obviously from your logic the Republicans didn’t care about the troops.
Really Derrick, please provide proof.
The majority of DEMOCRATS are scrambling looking for drift wood amongst thier party. They have run out of ideas and only thing left is retreat, or say “we aren’t Bush”.
Which is what they tried with Kerry.
Kerry was stone fro mthe start, but during that time the mojaority of Democrats and Democrat voters went with him not because of anything special about him, not because he actually had some kind of message or plan, but because “He wasn’t Bush.”
Essentially the drivel is those that walk around saying they support the troops when in fact they speaketh with forked tongues.
If you support the troops, you would support thier mission. The troops believe in thier mission, they are there doing a job and busting hump to do it while we have wankers back at home saying through one side of thier face “we support the troops” then the other side of the face trashing everything they are doing, their efforts, calling it a waste of time, illegal, they are losing, ect.
Yeah that is real support alright.
I have been overseas, I know how hard it is to spend alot of time away from friends and family. I know that knowing you have support back at home for what you do, that your brothers and sisters at home are looking out for you, haven’t forgotten you, means alot.
As an American Soldier, I can tell you this, it is hard not to go up to the nearest idiot who spews forth liberal crapping points and tell him to shut his pie hole.
Everyone has a breaking point, and mine is the soldiers. I could give a crap less about most politicians, and even less of liberal pukes who should have the brains to realize what is at stake and what we are fighting for.
Americas interest would be to iradicate terrorism. Americas interest would be to have Democracy in the middle east, to show Iraq how it will be when under its own control how living without a dictator can be. It will show its neighbors that it is possible.
American intserest is getting rid of a madman, that even the UN knew little about.
Read, educate you self.
Saddam’s WMDs
Saddam had WMDs
Saddam tapes are being translated and we are finding out ALOT more, and even with what has been translated so far is VERY disturbing and that the UN was completely clueless as usual.
Where is the big splash from our ever adhored media types?
ABC? NBC? CNN? CBS? BBC? FOX?
Hello?
Going to love seeing Liberals eat crow.
It’s whats for dinner.
But then again, maybe another week of the VP shooting accident can be played out as something new and we can just let information like this slide…it is after all not very important.
ST sorry for the hard tone in this but it needs to be said.
In essence CB is right on the money.
PUT UP OR SHUTUP.
Leave the mealy mouthed whining pathetic diatribes for another day, get your panties out of a knot and get behind the troops. Quit being two faced little backstabbing wankers and SUPPORT SOMETHING BESIDES DEFEATISM.
As Baklava has said, we are there, quit living in the past and figure out the present and future. You can examine the past all you want when the troops are out of harms way, otherwise your just stuck on stupid by thinking your remarks, the liberal medias remarks, the senators that boloviate hot rushes Ozone depleting gas attacks on the ears of fellow Americans are not depleting the moral of our troops and not giving the terrorists a boost in thier moral seeing how much America is split, how indecisive, and how much America is acting like a paper tiger.
/rant off
- The left is getting desperate because they’re running out of time, and Zawahari isn’t promulgating the much hoped for “civil war” fast enough, what with elections coming up here in the fall. After spending the past three+ years trying to undercut Bushes efforts in WOT at every turn, and managing to get hung with the “cut and run whimps” label, they need things like the phoney port issue and some sort of massive internal upheaval in Iraq to try to get to the right of Bush, or they know they’re in trouble.
- In the mean time when you see al Qaeda resort to using fanatics/ex-bathists to destroy their own ancient religious holy sites, you get a pretty good idea of how desperate they’ve grown also. If this doesn’t work, and so far its not had the desired effect, theres not a lot of options left.
- Bang
I still think this may have been a Syria/Iran job.
They have everything ot gain with a Iraq in civil war.
It’s hard ot believe a hundred year old fued between shites and sunnis suddenly remerges….not without some misdirection and help that is.
- 700 years… right after Mohammud died… but you’re right…
- Bang
CB wrote, “What the hell? I just asked for a clarification and with all of your rhetoric bantering you still didn’t answer my question
I’d have to accept the premise of your question. I didn’t accept it and that’s why I talked about your tendency to Monday morning quarterback. Perfect wars don’t exist. You can always monday morning quarterback. Doesn’t it make you look smart!
CB wrote, “How about some real solutions? What are your ideas?
Get behind the Iraqi people’s independence and the U.S.’s effort to give them their country. Make us look like a unified nation. Your continued Monday morning quarterbacking is the opposite of a solution. It’s harping on yesterday’s “what mistake did we make” questions. We are not in a position of power to change any of that. The military is. They are learning daily. THe generals are not stupid.
CB wrote, “See that’s the issue with our current climate. It’s much safer (with poeple like Baklava lurking about) to bash someone else’s ideas
I’m sorry. What was your idea? As far as bashing, yes, you can say I bashed the question. Smacked it down. The premise was faulty and without perspective. But that bashing was a REACTION to the original bashing. Call the basher bashed if you will.
And really… I’m not intending to bash. I’m simply pointing out that I wish for us to unify and get Iraq independent as quick as possible, have some perspective, and move on in the WOT. Are you up for that? Or do you want to continue playing MMQ?
After reading Sanity’s posts (I’m sanitized), I must say we didn’t come to the same conclusions for solutions for no reason. Sure we may think alike but it truly is what we think we should do as a country. And not for Republicans or Bush. For the BEST INTERESTS of OUR COUNTRY.
Tommy, your post of 8:01 is the EXAMPLE of the wrong way to move forward. It is the exact opposite of Sanity and I’s solution for the future. What do you think your post accomplished? Military folks do have access to the Internet, newspapers, cable news. Not only do I think it’ll work. But it better work or our world will be hurtin’. To have to pull out of Iraq and leave a power vacuum for the neighboring countries and terrorists to take over would be the last thing you Tommy should want to see (unless you like seeing America defeated).
Tommy, Cut and Run is not the answer. It didn’t work for Neville Chamberlain and it won’t work for donkeycrats now.
It’s not the fact that we invaded Iraq that I’m against Bak. It was the how. When we threw Saddam out of Kuwait we had 4x the amount of troops and the support of the international community. So what the heck do the Neo-cons running this country into the ground do? They invade Iraq which is 10 times geographically larger with a force which 375,000 troops fewer with little international support. Then people wonder why there is a power vacuum! We stuck in Iraq period. The other major undereported thing about Iraq is how could possibly trust almost any Iraqi government to run a serious air force. Who would you put in charge of such an organization? Moqutda-Al-Sadr? nuff said……. and wake up this is turning into a fiasco.
The US actually did want to finsih this off back when we threw Saddam out of Kuwait, but we did the Global test thing of Kerrys, and listened to the UN and them saying, no farther.
Personally I believe we should have gone the rest of the way. The Iraqis felt like we abandoned them during that time. we promised we would help them and then we turn around and go home. Those that stood up were murdered and jailed or never seen again. That is what they got for the US listening to the UN.
If you listen to the media, yes, Iraq is on fire, every day is murder and mayhem.
Again, talk to the troops. They aren’t re-enlisting in record numbers to go back for no reason. If your life is always in danger or you will be killed, no amount of money being offered will ever offset that risk. They go back because they beleive in what they are doing.
If they believe in it, don’t you think you should give he troops a chance? Listen to what they have to say, believe in them?
Sanity,
Man..I was going to stay ouy of this one but after reading your diatribe. I felt that I had to point a couple of things out.
First both of the sources you cited as proof that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction were ridiculous.
One source was someones personal weblog not that different than this blog.
The other was an opinion/editorial from an obscure investment online magazine.
Neither source had any basis in fact. Nor any reference to any real facts.
Are you saying that a case war can be made from a weblog?
Are you saying a case for war can be made from an op/ed column?
I am no peace activist. And I believe and have always believed that Iraq was and still is no threat to American security. We went there to steal the oil. Oil is power. Stolen oil allows oil companies to post record profits at the expense of you and I.
It has been almost three years. And we have rebuilt almost nothing. We bomb indiscriminately and then offer to buy our victims “wheelchairs” as a gesture of good will. What makes you think that Abu al Zarqawi even exist? Where the hell are all of these Islamic websites that the Pentagon is always sourcing? I have been looking for years for these websites. We are sacrificing Americans for what in the end will be the biggest heist on human history.
We went there promising to free them of a sadist who used torture, rape and murder to centralize his power. Instead we tortured, raped and murdered to centralize our power.
We could have went Jacksonian on their butts. But it’s not nearly as profitable for Mr. Bushs’ and Mr. Cheneys’ buddies. We could have let the Iraqis have control of their own oil. We did not have to steal it. I am not contending that John Kerry would have done anything differently. He’s a Bonesman. Just like GW. Bush, WJ. Clinton and GHW. Bush. Same a$$holes, different party. What we should be doing is trying to get these scumbag Elis out of our government. They are the epitome of corruption. All of them.
This is not an honorable war.
I don’t care where the troops are. I support them. But part of supporting them is to not let them die for profit. They swore to defend us, took an oath. And no where in that oath was it mentioned that they would defend our corporate interest.
So what if Mr. Buckleys’ position on Iraq has evolved based on fact and reason? It has recently become very clear that the Pentagon has been paying some media oulets to run stories that it provides them with for over 4 years. Rumsfeld said it himself.
GBA is that your camel toe showing or a lampshade on your head? Hadn’t you heard, OP/ED columns qualify as truths, at least in the minds of the nits at NYT. You spout your inane opinion about going into IRAQ just for the oil profits as if your deranged concepts have anything to do with facts and then proceed to lay into Sanity for not having facts. Your mundane drivel betrays sanity and all those there that believe in their honorable intentions.
Whine on about the time we spent there and rebuilt almost nothing. Go ahead and slam virtually everyone of our people over there bustin’ there ass for dolts like you to sit over here and bitch some more you disgusting [edited - ST] idiot! “This is not an honorable war.” So genius, what does an honorable war look like? You’ve gone way too far with that last blast! Then you have the audacity to lie about “I don’t care where the troops are. I support them.” This may have been one of the lowest backstabbing piles of unadulterated crap that you’ve ever generated.
Bashing Sanity about facts and exposing us all to your factually challenged,disrespectful opinions, is one of the worst things I ever read from you. You don’t normally show such disdain for the Americans over there keeping the lid on this. Are you out of your mind, disrespecting our people with not so much as a by your leave? You owe them an enormous apology you shameless denigrate!
“So what if Mr. Buckleys’ position on Iraq has evolved based on fact and reason?”
- Buckly could argue the pants off of Doris Day. Doesn’t make him right. Just good at verbal debate. Most of us who grew up listening to his form of old school apartheid and poorly desguised rascist nattering, admired his talking style, and always considered him a high brow conservative version of Gore Vidal, except somewhat less annoying.
- You can generally take what he says with a grain of salt, knowing hes still pissed they didn’t suspend all politiking the day he retired. *chuckle*
- Bang
How will we know that we are dragging our feet in getting out of Iraq: Something in Iraq will explode. Like the golden dome mosque. The only thing that we control in Iraq, at this point, is our own safe withdrawl. And time for that is running out. Peace
- Oh and GBA. If you’ve been sitting in your ivory tower blissfully unaware that theres a second front in the WOT going on, a battle royal for the high ground in “perceptions” through the willing mendacity of the Liberal MSM press/TV, welcome to the real world and international hard ball politics.
- Always amazing that people that want to pontificate on things, come unarmed with even the most basic understandings.
- Bang
Here, let me introduce you to some fine folks:
The real news in Iraq
Meet:
Rep. Murtha is causing casualties
Celebrating with Iraqi Policemen
Read the rest here
Meet Lieutenant K
I about died laughing at this one:
Friendly Fire – With Friends like these…
And here is someone who GETS IT!
Read the rest here
This person gets it. He understands.
It should not matter what political affiliation you are, you should be PRO-VICTORY!
Stars and Stripes
Oh those Evil Republicans will DRAFT you, but..but…but….
Look who is renewing the call for a DRAFT for the 3rd time:
Stars and Stripes
Where is the media reports on this?
A 3rd time!
Hollywood wants to make a movie about Iraq called “Over There”. The Soldiers who have seen it say it complete bull**** and hollywood has no clue.
“Thank God that’s over,” said a master sergeant as the credits rolled.
Soldiers say ‘Over There’ is ‘bogus’
Soldiers Diary
Stars and Stripes
Media Slander
Today Show Suprise
Why do I have to read British newspapers to learn about the heroic actions of our troops?
Ack! Sorry got carried away lol.
“Freedom is the natural condition of the human race, in which the Almighty intended men to live. Those who fight the purpose of the Almighty will not succeed. They always have been, they always will be, beaten.” – Abraham Lincoln (Feb 23, 1861)
Tommy wrote, “They invade Iraq which is 10 times geographically larger with a force which 375,000 troops fewer with little international support. Then people wonder why there is a power vacuum!”
So you didn’t like the invasion even though it went better than most predicted? Wow. And there were more countries helping than in Kuwait. Sure we had to shoulder the bulk of the operations but we were successful. Since the invasion the generals have told the president what they wanted and the president has continued to give the generals how many troops they’ve wanted. Now Tommy comes along and thinks it should be more or less (we don’t know ’cause Tommy’s all over the board on numbers of troops) – great MMQ’ing.
Tommy said, “nuff said……. and wake up this is turning into a fiasco.
Is that what you want? I hope not. You wonder why people call you a defeatist. It’s your irresponsible words during a time of war.
And then GBA with is irresponsibility said, “Instead we tortured, raped and murdered to centralize our power.
I dare you to find a soldier in Iraq and tell him your name and address and tell him that. In fact, tell a bunch of soldiers that. Ergh. I want to call you names. You want to generalize what our Army was prosecuting before the media got a hold of it? You are the worst kind of irresponsible person who will probably never apologize for your words and the harm they do to our country and interests.
And then GBA lied (yes lied – you lied) by saying, “We could have let the Iraqis have control of their own oil. We did not have to steal it.
Good god. We stole Iraqi oil huh. I wish. I wish we had them pay us for freeing them by stealing their oil. Man the irresponsibility. You are definitely against this nation. You spout propoganda in a time of war. This isn’t about Bush GBA. This is about your reckless irresponsibility that hurts this country.
Bak