You’re making an analogy between local police and U.S. troops in Iraq? I’m sorry, I don’t understand the parallelism there. Big Bang Hunter said that U.S. troops in Iraq are fighting terrorism there so it doesn’t come here. How does that analogize to local police? Local police protect the residents of a city or town or neighborhood from criminal activity in that same city or town or neighborhood. We don’t put police departments in Philadelphia so New Yorkers don’t have to fight crime in New York City.

Your argument doesn’t make sense. What’s the point you’re trying to make?

Defeatism is as defeatism does. Don’t get in that car today!

Again, what the hell does this have to do with fighting terrorists in Iraq so we don’t have to fight them in America?

What do you think of your local police? Oh that’s right. You live in a “good” neighborhood? No need to worry about it.

Defeatism is as defeatism does. Don’t get in that car today !

If that’s true, it’s only more proof that Bush lied to us. Because he told us before the invasion that the war was necessary to reduce the threat of terrorism. He didn’t tell us that Al Qaeda was going to have more recruits than they knew what to do with after the invasion. He didn’t tell us that dozens of other terrorist organizations would spring up after the invasion that didn’t exist before it.

The only difference is where the WOT is being fought. Maybe you’d rather fight the Jihadists in the streets of America. You’re ideas are idiotic.

But Bush did not tell us the purpose of the Iraq invasion was to fight terror in Iraq instead of at home. He told us the purpose of the Iraq invasion was to STOP terrorism.

Another thing: Didn’t you guys say a few times already that Iraqis were not living in terror? That they could go freely about their business with no or little fear? But here you seem to be implying that fighting insurgents on the streets of American cities would be a BAD thing. If it’s bad, then how can you say life in Iraq is good for Iraqis now?If fighting jihadists here would be a bad thing, a terrible thing, a highly undesirable thing to be avoided at all costs; then isn’t fighting them in Iraq bad, terrible, and highly undesirable for Iraqis, too? Why do you want to subject Iraqis to something you would not want to experience yourself?

I also have to say I’m surprised that you would support using American men and women as flypaper. That’s rather insulting to professional men and women trained to defeat dangerous enemies, not serve as human shields so the bullets don’t reach us at home.

Outlaw cars now! No Blood for Oil!

I know one thing. 40,000 Americans are killed in auto accidents every year. I now know that even though Bush came into office that this is Bush’s fault. His lack of planning and arrogance has brought this country misery. And who would want to get behind the wheel and drive in this country? I don’t want to. We are oppressed. We went from 60,000 deaths per year only to be replaced with 40,000 deaths per year and it’s ALL the Bush administrations faults. Not the Syrian/Iranian Terrorist (I mean drunk driver and or driver on the cell phone). This administration declared preemptive war on the driver in this country. There was no need for that. We now have the right to revolt and take up arms and say the meanest falsest allegations because of our oppression.

Gather round folks we will take back this country to the days when we had more deaths per year. The Bush Administration decisions has shown that Bush doesn’t “care” about us. He doesn’t “care” about anything but oil for our vehicles.

- Americas presense in Iraq has no bearing on the number of Jihadists. al Qaeda recruits new mentally deficient people to blow themselves up in the name of the cause every day, and would whether we were there or not. The only difference is where the WOT is being fought. Maybe you’d rather fight the Jihadists in the streets of America. You’re ideas are idiotic.

- Bang

Yes, I read the first one, about the Polish troops finding the rusted sarin gas shells that dated back at least 15 years to the first Persian Gulf War or even earlier.

I decided that, if that was your idea of “proof” that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction at the time of this current invasion, it was a waste of my time to read the rest of the links.

All I was saying was that Sadamn did have links to other terrorist organizations outside of AQ.

No, you said he had links to Hamas through his donations of money to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers. You did not mention any other terrorist organizations. Saddam is gone, and Hamas is now running the Palestinian government.

You do know there are other terrorist organizations outside of AQ don’t you Kathy???

Obviously, I do. I’ve been saying throughout this “discussion” that the U.S. invasion caused an explosion in terrorist activity. There are a lot more terrorist organizations and groups now than there were before March 2003, definitely.

- “All lies all the time”, should be the moto of the “new” Democrats. They’ve become the “Heavens gate” cult for the 21st century, but then it shows at the ballot box.

Each time the public record exposes yet another one of their “Big Lies”, they retreat to some other screed, avoiding the truth like a gsggle of frenetic, babbling lemmings, all plunging over the cliff together.

- Embracing a world view of government Nanny statism, avoidance of any and all forms of personal responsibility, believing only in a sort of perverted amoral, anti-religious “Theism”. A hedonistic existance, with no hope or faith in the future, bleak and leading to inevitable dispare.

- Something like that can ruin your whole mellenium.

- Bang

Kathy has demonstrated numerous times in this thread her racist tendencies, just as all liberals eventually do. You’re better off to ignore her, it’s best not to associate with nihilistic, racist, anti-American leftists.

NO Kathy, I PROVIDED YOU 10 links above backing up my claims and the Bush administration, but you want to stay in your little hate Bush/hate America world and suck your thumb and be insulting to others. Did you read a single one of my links?? You are so wide read, but yet you hang on the same DU/Move.Org diatribe as if it is air giving you life. All I was saying was that Sadamn did have links to other terrorist organizations outside of AQ. You do know there are other terrorist organizations outside of AQ don’t you Kathy??? Your tunnel vision is blinding you. I have defended my thoughts and posts in a variety of manners, only to have you come back with such a childish comment as:

As for Saddam Hussein paying the families of suicide bombers for Hamas: Is that why Bush had to invade Iraq? Because Saddam was giving money to families of Palestinian suicide bombers? Or is it a straw you’re grasping at to justify the war now that all the stated reasons for it have turned out to be false?

I am not even remotely grasping at straws, and I certainly wouldn’t be grasping at straws from the arguments that you have presented. All the stated reasons are false??? Damn that is alot of bodies to be false Kathy!!!! All the stated reasons are not false, except in the DU/Moveon.org world. 500,000 bodies are now false. Some concerned libs you people are. Everything you have presented has been easily knocked down by presented facts. I am done with this discussion. I refuse to debate with children. I felt that earlier, and now I am paying for it with childish comments like the one posted above. Good luck to you in this life Kathy. I hope and pray that you gain some deeper understanding of the events that this world is presently going thru.

Gentleman I suggest you just give Kathy the last word on this dicussion as we have done a wonderful job here defending our thoughts and beliefs. I for one will continue to believe this and support our warriors for the great job they are doing. – Lorica

Kathy please don’t make that sound like a race issue for New Orleans, because it has been proven that it was not race based probelms. Brown and black, well thier were just as many white in that equation, plus foriegn tourists.

I am sick of the media and everyone else throwing around race like it has no meaning. Race used to mean much more than it does now. Unfortunately, so many people jump up and down and scream racism for even the slightest thing, like McKinney, or Al Sharpton, or New Orleans Mayor Nagin.

When you you try and use racism as a bat to batter your opponents or to deflect criticism away from yourself (McKinney), then you cheapen what Racism really is, and when it really does happen not many people will care because so many have screamed it over and over for no good reason.

I will tell you this, America is the Least Racist Country in world from what I hear, which is pretty good considering America’s background and History with Slavery. It also shows in how America came together for the victims of Katrina, opening their homes, their hearts and their pocketbooks. Giving time, money, tears, and even the shirts off their backs to help out.

Now, I do recognize their are elements of racism, that is true in every society, but as a whole, I really do believe we are the least racist.

Aside from that, I also am sick to death of hearing about New Orleans. They were victims of flooding that happened after Katrina came through, Katrina missed New Orleans, but hit other cities and states, wiping them out as if a nuclear bomb went off. That bombs name was Katrina and had phenominal destruction that cut wide and hard into many places.

Where is the words on them?
Where is the spotlight on relief and help to them? Where is the stories about the struggles of the real victims of Katrina and not the victims of flooding?

I am not making light of New Orleans, but I do wish to point out there was much more to Katrina and the story than New Orleans.

Anything that doesn’t slavishly support Bush administration policies is “anti-American” to people like you, Severian. And any news source that doesn’t consider itself to be cheerleaders for the conservative cause is left-wing by your lights.

As it happens, I get my information from a wide variety of sources, both print and online. I read newspapers, online publications, dozens of blogs (including conservative ones, obviously), and books. In fact, I probably get most of my general knowledge about current events and politics from books. I would be willing to bet that I do more reading, from a wider variety of sources, and from more diverse points of view, than you do, or than most of the people who have commented here do. I would lay odds on that. The only source I never look at is television news.

As for my knowedge of the military, I see the actual reports and measurements of mission data and miss distances. I don’t read what a military “propaganda” (in your view) minister says, I’ve designed the weapons, I know full well how accurate they are.

Okay, then I have some questions.

How does the military define “accurate” in the context of civilian casualties? In other words, when the military determines that a weapon is “accurate,” how many noncombatant casualties does it estimate are acceptable to still have the weapon called “accurate”?

What kind of weapons do you design? Do you design cluster bombs or fuel-air explosives? Do you design DU weapons?

Does accuracy correlate with no or very few civilian casualties? What other factors affect how many civilians will be killed in bombing operations? Target selection must be part of it, right? And programming in the correct target coordinates must be part of it too, right? I’m assuming that the most accurate weapon in the world won’t be accurate if the target coordinates are wrong; or if the target itself is wrong.

Here is arguably the most important question I need to have answered: How many civilian casualties have been caused by U.S. weaponry? What is the U.S. military’s estimate of the number of civilian casualties in Iraq; how did they reach that figure; what was their methodology; and where can I read about it?

Ohhh yes, and just because Saddamn didn’t have much to do with AQ doesnt mean he had nothing to do with terrorism. Even PBS finally got it right. Take alook at the 5th question.

Surprise, Surprise. Ties to terrorist. Also let’s not forget that Ol’ Saddamn paid the families of sucide bombers 25,000.00 for Hamas. And that’s not because he was such a humanitarian. Those suicide bombers were attacking Israel and by paying these people he encouraged this action, and thus was a “destablizing” effect on the middle east. Looks like it ain’t all our fault after all guys.

Lorica, my understanding is that Sabah Khodada’s claims in this PBS interview were discredited because there was no evidence to back up what he said. I looked for a second independent source that might confirm Khodada’s claim, but couldn’t find one. Can you provide one?

As for Saddam Hussein paying the families of suicide bombers for Hamas: Is that why Bush had to invade Iraq? Because Saddam was giving money to families of Palestinian suicide bombers? Or is it a straw you’re grasping at to justify the war now that all the stated reasons for it have turned out to be false?

Because here’s the thing: If Saddam was overthrown because he was paying families of Hamas suicide bombers, then it didn’t make any difference, because Hamas won the Palestinian elections. Hamas is in power there now. So you can hardly use Saddam’s payments as a reason for the invasion now.

Poor ol’helpless brown and black people were allowed to die…it’s our job to take care of them because liberals all know they are too weak and stupid to take care of themselves.

I wish you had as much respect for the strength and intelligence of the Iraqi people as you do for the brown and black people trapped by the floodwaters in New Orleans.

Kathy said “brown and black people were allowed to die through criminal inaction in New Orleans and those who survived have been almost completely abandoned”

Notice the inherent racism again? Poor ol’helpless brown and black people were allowed to die…it’s our job to take care of them because liberals all know they are too weak and stupid to take care of themselves. There were plenty of problems, most directly attributable to the local and staate DEMOCRATIC morons in charge, but again, notice the slight on the “brown and black” people. They need us white liberal betters to take care of them, the po’children.

Gag again.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/interviews/khodada.html

Surprise, Surprise. Ties to terrorist. Also let’s not forget that Ol’ Saddamn paid the families of sucide bombers 25,000.00 for Hamas. And that’s not because he was such a humanitarian. Those suicide bombers were attacking Israel and by paying these people he encouraged this action, and thus was a “destablizing” effect on the middle east. Looks like it ain’t all our fault after all guys. – Lorica