Iraq is too big to put the type of man power to do complete border security and the US knows that, that is why the plan has always been to train the Iraqi Army and Police to handle things for themselves, unfortunately for most of the idiot generation out there of everything must be done NOW, NOW, NOW, fail to realize that this training is not something that is done overnight and the amount of Iraqis they are training are staggering.

Iraqis, more and more, are stepping up, seeing that they need to protect thier homeland. It is not Iraqi terrorists blowing up police stations full of Iraqis, or murdering Iraqi women and children. Can you really be that dense to think that?

There is already proof that Iran and Syria have a hand in what is going on in Iraq, that is one reason why their is going to be talks held with Iran specifically on that subject.

Again steve, thier elected government ASKED us to stay after they were elected by thier own Iraqi citizens. They wish us to stay till they are stabilized and thier army and police are trained, in which time our troops can begin to fall back and come home as more and more of the Iraqis take over. This has been the plan all along.

The only nonsense we see seem to come from you and you off-base, most times off-topic, one-liners meant to try and inflame comments and not any real debate.

Thier elected Government wants us to help them then leave, not cut and run.

The murderers are the terrorists coming from Syria and Iran across the borders trying to disrupt the Iraqi newly formed government and terrorize thier citizens.

When you make two opposing statements as if they were one and the same, it creates something of an oxymoron. That is, the statement itself is an oxymoron, while you, sir, are an ox and a moron. Ordering the troops to run away from a fight with thugs and murderers only shows support for the thugs and murderers you deem too powerful for the United States military.

I support the troops. I want the job done so that when the troops come home it is not to defend the homefront from enemies they could have killed overseas.

Up-Armoring Debate Renewed!
Remember the big deal that the dems were making about Up-Armoring our HumVees a while back? The Libs wanted them Up-Armored overnight, while not giving any consideration to the facts. I wrote an article in December of 2004 making the following points in that debate:
1) Humvees were never intended to be armored personnel carriers (we HAVE APCs for that!). They are simple motorized transportation, that not long ago would have been relegated to a jeep – which rarely had even a canvas door on it!

2) Outfitting an “Up-Armored HumVee is not a simple matter of slapping on a couple of sheets of steel plating. The armor kit weighs upward of a couple of TONS. Installing it then requires modivications of the suspension to carry that extra weight, of the braking system (to keep the vehicle from slamming into the one in front of it due to the additional inertia of all that weight in motion), and even of the engine and transmission to enable the newly heavyweight machine to perform in uneven terrain. All this takes time and money.

3) The Administration has moved men and material as quickly as possible to accomplish the up armoring process… but it must be borne in mind that no amount of modification will make our troops and equipment invulnerable. Roadside bombs can and do take out vehicles heavier and better armored than an up-armored HumVee.

Well, forgive the metaphor, but the Up-Armor debate has gotten a retread! And even “under the radar on Iraq” Hillary has mustered up the gumption to take a position on it!

A group called Soldiers for the Truth leaked an unpublished Pentagon study that found that a significant number of Marines killed in Iraq from upper body wounds might have survived with extra body armor, as these wounds struck gaps in armor on the sides under the arms. (Well, CLUE!! And more still would have survived if they were covered head to toe in a foot of concrete!)

Of course the New York Times latched onto the story, and it has spread like wildfire from there. Next thing you know, Hillary is on “Good Morning America” blasting the “incompetent” Bush Administration for it’s “unforgivable” failure to provide more armor. But of course, the facts are not given much consideration.

1) Many lives have been saved by the armor that is in place. Our troops extol the virtues of the EXISTING body armor.

2) There is no shortage of current technology body armor. While it is true that the initial supply at the beginning of Iraqi operations was slow in coming – there is currently such a surplus that excess body armor is being used for training in the states.

3) Troops currently patrol with between 70 and 100 lbs of armor and equipment in desert heat. Many say they would risk patroling WITHOUT the existing armor if they were permitted to.

4) Body Armor which is all-enclosing is not even developed, let alone currently deployable. Factors which must be accounted for in its development include accounting for venting perspiration and heat to prevent heatstroke and dehydration; flexibility, weight, comfort and mobility to allow the wearer to actually function and perform their mission while so outfitted; and costs.

5) As with HumVees, the concept of invulnerability in war is a fairy tale. There WILL be casualties regardless of any protective precautions taken. The benefits of such armor must be weighed against the costs and risks of increased weight, decreased mobility etc. Protection must be balanced against the ability to perform the mission. One cannot wage a war without the risk of casualties.

It would be nice if those who purport to speak for the troops, express concern for the troops, and crusade for the safety of the troops would ever actually speak to the troops and LISTEN to the troops!

I got this from Sister Toldjah this morning.
We all remember Hillary Clinton castigating the administration about this:
 Jan. 10, 2006 — Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton called the Bush administration "incompetent" when it came to …

The Hummer Armor is what happens when uninformed Libs and equally uninformed Media get together with a bloody shirt to mung up an issue. Libs demonstrate a limited capacity to understand warfare.

Look at that Kathy that posted on another thread whining about Iraqi civilian casualties. There are always civilian casualties in war. The thing that the Kathy’s do not accept is that the US is about the only country that doesn’t target civilian populations. We target the military and their installations. Also, Saddam loved to hide his military in civilian neighborhoods turning his own citizens into human shields.

Most of the armor debate is coming from know nothings who think war is some sort of push button video game. They want it clean and antiseptic. These are the same fools who are trying to forget the 3,000 innocent souls who died on 9/11.