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Audacity of Truth
Whiner-in-Chief:
"[W]hether the grumbling is about Republicans on Fox or bloggers in pajamas, there's a word for what the president and his aides are doing. That word is "whining." And nothing [...] does more damage to Obama's credibility or authority than the sense that a popular president is becoming the whiner-in-chief."
- John Nichols, Nation Magazine - 10/12/09
DeLay to resign from the House
The big story of the day is Rep. Tom DeLay’s announcement that he will not seek re-election afterall this fall and will resign from Congress, presumably in May:
WASHINGTON – Succumbing to scandal, former Majority Leader Tom Delay intends to resign from Congress within weeks, closing out a career that blended unflinching conservatism with a bare-knuckled political style.
[...]
Republican officials said Monday night they expect the Texan to quit his seat later this spring. He was first elected in 1984, and conceded he faced a difficult race for re-election.
[...]
DeLay is under indictment in Texas as part of an investigation into the allegedly illegal use of funds for state legislative races.
Separately, the Texan’s ties with lobbyist Jack Abramoff caused him to formally surrender his post as majority leader in January, within days after the lobbyist entered into a plea bargain as part of a federal congressional corruption probe.
More recently, former DeLay aide Tony Rudy said he had conspired with Abramoff and others to corrupt public officials, and he promised to help the broad federal investigation of bribery and lobbying fraud that already has resulted in three convictions.
Neither Rudy, Abramoff nor anyone else connected with the investigation has publicly accused DeLay of breaking the law, but Rudy confessed that he had taken actions while working in the majority leader’s office that were illegal.
DeLay has consistently denied all wrongdoing, and he capped a triumph in a contested GOP primary earlier this year with a vow to win re-election.
In an interview Monday with The Galveston County Daily News in Texas, DeLay said his change of mind was based partly on a poll taken after the March Republican primary that showed him only narrowly ahead of Democrat Nick Lampson.
“Even though I thought I could win, it was a little too risky,” the paper quoted him as saying.
That’s an interesting thing for him to say, because “risky” is exactly his style. My personal opinion is that there’s more to this than meets the eye. Two things have always been important to Tom DeLay 1) the success of the Tom DeLay and even more than that 2) the success of the Republican party as a majority in Washington, DC. With the admission of guilt by former DeLay aide Tony Rudy, I think it’s very possible that somewhere down the line in the not-too-distant-future statements by either Rudy or Abramoff himself are going to implicate DeLay in this scandal. Considering that some of the illegal activity was happening out of DeLay’s own office, I find it hard to believe he couldn’t have at the very least had knowledge of it, and perhaps participated as well. That’s pure speculation at this point, but that’s the best I can come up with because DeLay is not the kind of guy who’d quit a race he thought he could win – unless something big was about to happen to him. Rather than stick around and face the possibility that he was going to go down, he’s stepping aside to give other Republicans a chance to hold on to the seat he’s vacating.
Just my .02.
I know there is a lot of talk out there about how much DeLay did for the Republican party – and he did – but sometimes where there’s smoke, there’s fire and there’s too much smoke swirling around DeLay at this point to ignore or dismiss every allegation against him as overhyping.
Read more commentary on this via: Captain Ed, QandO, Moderate Voice, Betsy Newmark, Texas Rainmaker, Tigerhawk, James Joyner, Rhymes With Right (good link roundup there)
Related Toldjah So posts:
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Me? I don’t mind seeing any ONE person go. The ideas of conservativism need to advance and it doesn’t matter about the career or any ONE politician. Whether he’s guilty or not doesn’t matter to me.
The substance/ideas/solutions are what matters. It’s what matters with surveilling the enemy, with making sure the job gets done in Iraq, with making sure government spending is curtailed (won’t be by liberals – they breed more dependance on government and have called increases CUTS), with making sure tax rates stay low.
If Tom DeLay is found innocent, ST, what then? Just look at his “jury”: Rep. Cynthia McKinney (accused of assualting a police officer), Rep. Jim McDermott (convicted wiretapper), Rep. Alcee Hastings (impeached judge who was removed for perjury and corruption), Sen. Robert Byrd (KKK Grand Wizard), and Sen. Ted Kennedy (murderer) and the MSM. This is justice?
Perhaps we should have waited a bit before letting them toss DeLay under the bus.
He resigned. We waited. We did our due diligence.
Perhaps we have to agree to disagree on this, Baklava. Personally, I think that a dangerous precedent has been established.
A prediction: Get ready for an tsunami of false accusations against Republican officeholders from Democrats and the MSM. Since it worked with DeLay, expect them to make the equation accusation=conviction the guiding principle. It will make what has gone on before look like a picnic.
We may have to but I’ll say this. We’ve already been experiencing a tsunami of false allegations and not just about our leaders but about so-called cuts (that are increases), surveilling the enemy being supposedly against the law, and on and on.
The legacy media is at full capacity in my view. They can’t pump out more falsehoods into the American public’s brains.
I respect you immensely and like what you write. I just think we did our due diligence we did not ask for Delay to step down (or turn against him), he resigned on his own and there is nothing that we could do short of asking him to remove his resignation.
I won’t do that.
Well he’s already indicted on state charges,his assisants are copping pleas with the Justice Dept.,and he figures well he ain’t going win in November anyway so he’ll quit now so they can have a special election now so the G.O.P. can keep the seat. News like this helps a fellow get thru the work day.
“So it’s better for me to step aside and let it be a referendum on ideas, Republican values and what’s important for this district.” — Tom DeLay, April 3, 2006
But, Tom, you’ve defiantly and forthrightly stood up for greed, selfishness, intolerance, and shortsightedness (that is, “Republican values”) and when have Bush Toadies ever abandoned any corrupt Republican politician who remained true to The Cause?
But before you go, Tom, we liberals have a kiss for you. That’s right, conservatives, you’re going to see us kiss him,
we’re going to go on and kiss him
GOODBYE!!!!!!!
NAH NAH NAH NAH
NAH NAH NA-AH NAH
HEY HE-EY
GOODBYE!!!!
NAH NAH NAH NAH
NAH NAH NA-AH NAH
HEY HE-EY
GOODBYE!!!!
NAH NAH NAH NAH
NAH NAH NA-AH NAH
HEY HE-EY
GOODBYE!!!!
Why Tommy?
It’s not about ideas/solutions/policy to you? It’s about gettinghimism?
BTW, Indicted is not a conviction. It may very well turn out that he did something wrong but it doesn’t turn out that you’ve been right on any one thing.
notice the typcial childishness from the so-called “liberals.”
Herman is all about a “referendum on ideas” I see. Take a look in the mirror. See what makes you happy? Is that odd to you? Why wouldn’t advancing ideas make you happy instead?
Bak the G.O.P. doesn’t give a damn about about the American people they sure as heck care about cheap labor,tax breaks for the wealthy,The Military-Industrial complex,Corporate welfare and the Religious Right. The rest of us are here to die for the country,take out their trash and cut their lawns. Oh and well the Donkeys aren’t that much better but they sure as hell ain’t worse than these clowns.
Tommy, I’ve repeated this bit of advice to you a few times. You should be getting it. This is good advice and you should take it. You, Tommy, canNOT say what someone else gives a damn about or not unless they tell you what they “care” about or not. You can only speculate and then your speculation turns out wildly inaccurate if people who are conservative or Republican tell you you are WRONG. At which point you can only say “sorry” I thought that’s what you “cared” about.
You cannot know what is in someone elses head. It is poor debate tactic and you set yourself up for losing everytime.
ADDITIONALLY, Your tactic of diversion doesn’t work with me. You diverted from my question if it’s not about ideas/solutions/policy to you or is it about gettinghimism. Diversion works with others maybe but not me. What is it you care about? Gettinghimism or ideas?
You even go on about the Donkeys as if that is impressive. This isn’t a game where people root for one set of clowns over the other. To me it’s always been about ideas and you FAIL at addressing solutions and ideas almost everytime. You only accuse. Why is that?
Delay was the second most powerful Republican in Congress, and the Democratic smear machine with the MSM brought him down and some help from Delay himself. Whether Delay fell on the sword for the party or not this will embolden the Democrats even more remember they also took out Trent Lott. The Democrats are going to be celebrating its party time on the hill, who will be the next to be brought down? You can bet the Democrats will use anything they can to gain control of the house back even thought they have no cohesive message but neither do the Republicans. We have to look at realities Bush’s second term hasn’t been all that great and the government spending is at record levels and government inaction on illegal immigration plus the increase in the size of government. Let’s not forget gas prices and raising the government’s debt ceiling. The Republicans it seams have lost what they have stood for and this could hand the Democrats the House in the mid-term elections. If the Democrats win back the house (Only 15 seats) it will be the Republicans that will hand it to them because the Dems have no message and are incompetent to say the least.
Well let’s look at some of the things that has happened since 43 has become Pesident. This nation’s defceit in the Pension guarantee fund has increased by 10 billion but it is now waaaaaayy more difficult for your average American to claim bankrupatcy. Our airline and automotive industries are going to need to be bailed out. That will never happen with a G.O.P. Adminstration in charge. The war in Iraq was woefully miscalculated while Bin Laden’s lunatics are becoming better terrorists because of the Iraq conflict. Then they turn around saying that we’ll bring freedom to nation’s that have never known it right? What about that Afghan Christian. Shouldn’t the west let the Afghan people just kill the guy. After all he broke the law. This border isn’t secure,the prts aren’t secure but when the Dems wanted to unionize the TSA 43 balked. My brother works for them so I know this for a fact.
Sorry if the last post got a little messed up United airlines was able to slash it’s pension payments to their retirees under a 43 Admin I seriously doubt that would happen with a Dem in charge. Privitizing Social Security would only take money out of that system so that it would eventually default. Which is exactly what the right-wing in this country wants. They view it as welfare IMHO. The Medicare Bill was so convulted most seniors do not comprend it. Didn’t a G.O.P Congress pass that bill. What needs to happen obviously is to take in more money than you spend. What happened under Reagan and now 43 is that the right spends more than it takes in creating a large defeceit which will force and eventual increase in tax-revenue. Which means higher taxes.Which means the Rove’s of your party get to turn around and call us tax and spend liberals allowing more business friendly legislators to become elected. Which allows corporations to outsource good paying jobs with benefits to China,Mexico,etc,etc. So the rich get richer and rest of us get screwed over.T he private company I work for make almost 10 BILLION dollars last year know how they thanked their management non-union employees? They cancelled all retiree health care benefits for all new management employees reduced their pension egilibility for employees with less than 15years of service and raised their health care premimums. Unless This nation starts electing politicans who actually care about it’s citizens more than it’s corporations i.e. stricted limits on fuel-efficent cars for starters. This country is headed for real trouble. To say nothing about the fact that the war in Iraq is only creating more terrorists in the Islamic world not less. While it’s great that Saddam’s in prison not power it was a mistake to remove him from power to be honest because it is slowly headed towards a civil-war. It’s not there yet but it’s going to happen.
More accusations….
Our airline industry will need to be bailed out? The latest figures show that they are serving more customers than Septemeber 10th, 2001 and with fewer employees.
Consumers have chosen foreign car company brands at a higher percentage every year for over 3 decades and somehow this is a conservative/liberal issue?
And then your brief mention of the Afghan guy has me believing you wouldn’t have removed the Taliban in Afghanistan. You were against that war also? What would you have done? You never say that. You only make half baked incoherent accusations.
The border isn’t secure and hasn’t been for over 3 decades. How is this a Republican issue? The only people who seem to try to address the issue is Republicans with Democrats playing the race card on the issue.
The ports are the same as they have been. This case shows clearly how the legacy media has failed to inform. People didn’t know who operated ports in LA, NY, Philadelphia, etc. This case not only shows the failure of the legacy media but the tendency of liberals and the legacy media to glom and try to use any issue against Republicans when it was clearly the way the business has operated for decades and transactions of this type were handled by a committee.
Your tendency to follow the liberal pattern of laundry lists of incoherent and inaccurate accusations did nothing to advance the debate. It did however highlight how much you don’t know.
Tommy wrote, “Sorry if the last post got a little messed up United airlines was able to slash it’s pension payments to their retirees under a 43 Admin I seriously doubt that would happen with a Dem in charge.” Oh really. But pension payments by private companies and publicly traded companies have been reduced during Democrat presidencies. If the company can’t afford the payout decisions are made and if not illegal what would a president of America be able to do?
Tommy wrote, “Privitizing Social Security would only take money out of that system so that it would eventually default. Which is exactly what the right-wing in this country wants.” Again talking inaccurately about what conservatives want. Do you like being told you are wrong? We want a stronger social security that leaves people a nest egg that they can pass to loved ones, give them a higher percentage payout not a measly one, and keeps the promise to current recipients (thus the 1 trillion transition cost now to get to a better system). Default will happen when the baby boomers reach retirement age and not enough funds come in to pay them.
Anyways. Nothing to see here. Conversations been diverted by another diversion and set of laundry lists.
Forget it Baklava. If you can’t comprend that we have a Adminstration that pretends to care about the plight of you average American working man instead of making laws which helps your average American corporation you’ll never understand where I’m coming from. F*** it bro I’m done wasting my time.
Edited – language. Tommy, you know how I feel about that word. –ST
“pretends to care”?
I don’t get into that.
I care about the ideas/solutions/policies.
The results of solutions that liberals would like would lead to more misery, poverty, death. As I’ve illistrated with previous writings.
I could care less about the personalities of Democrats or Republicans. I only care if they are advancing the right ideals. And I certainly don’t PRETEND to know what they CARE about.
For one thing Tommy why is it the governments responsibility to look after yours or anyone else’s retirement? I don’t believe you will find that in the Constitution anywhere! Here you are criticizing the Republicans for deficit spending and in the same breath saying it’s harder for an individual to file bankruptcy weren’t they deficit spending also? It is not the government’s job to bail out the airline or the automotive industries this is not a socialist country yet. We do not need the government medaling in business, who was the first ones on the scene with help after a hurricane private industry not government you liberals think government is the answer to everything. Your assessment of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan are so woefully wrong it’s not worth going into. The illegal immigration has been going on long before “43″ as you put it, what have the Democrats done about it sure haven’t heard any revelations from the liberals? Oh yes the TSA is doing such a good job some cities/airports are looking to hire private companies to work security and drop TSA. And just like Reagan did to Patco Bush should bust up any union representing government workers period. You are not just tax and spend liberals you are Socialist that will tax the rich because they are evil (From those with the ability to those with a need) and you want the government to powder your bottom at infancy and tuck you into you coffin when you die. You and your kind don’t want to be responsible for your own life just let some else take care of you, you want to be given a job have your medical care taken care of and also your retirement no responsibility. The workers paradise right Tommy where everything is “Fair” and “The Playing Field is Level” everyone is treated the same whether you work hard or do nothing at all. Wow I can see it now!!!
And this is what the conservatisvism versus liberalism debate is all about essentially.
Liberals (to me) are selfish. They think about government as providing for them and “caring” for them. The end result of policies don’t matter … only what the liberal believes is “caring” for them or not.
These liberals in France shut down the Eiffel Tower today and committed more VIOLENCE all because they think the French government doesn’t cCARE about them. Yet the French government has some of the most anti-business and so-called pro-worker rules/laws in place. Conservatives are saying that these rules/laws are the reason for the 23% youth unemployment rate and double digit general unemployment rate.
Conservatives are not pushing for anarchy (no government) or so little regulation that sweat shops and child labor exist and saffety is non-existent, what we are pushing for is for our country’s corporations to remain strong and be able to do well and employ more and pay more and not have to cope with an overreaching big government and nobody can deny that the government hasn’t been passing tens of thousands of pages of business regulations per year. That’s fact.
Instead of working with self-reliance (I’m not referring to the non-able-bodied who need a safety net), liberals are working towards what they can get or receive from others. The top 50% of income earners pay 96% of the income taxes and yet that isn’t progressive enough for liberals I think. Is it Tommy? What should that change to? To 100%? What’s your view on that number?
Tommy, your problem is that you want a Socialist society where the Democrats control everything, including the price of Pot! It isn’t going to happen. Wage and Price controls never work. Didn’t you learn that from Nixon??
- Awwwwww…. Springtime in Paris. Does anyone with a working brain cell out there in Blogland need anymore than the pictures from the “parades” of Socialists going on right now in Paris, beamed into the comfort of your own living room, to show you the wonders of the great Utopia?
- Just sit back and watch all the Liberal ninnies look for ways to “spin” this into something good.
- Of course the fact that the vast majority of the French working people think the rioters are spoiled brats won’t be mentioned. Its not “progressive”, and of course far to beholding to reality for the moonbats.
- On Delay. Hes realized once again hes a lightening rod, and decided resigning will take away one of the lefts chief rallying points. So don’t believe it when they pretend to be elated. Without Delay as a whipping boy, they’ve lost yet another “gotcha” to yammer about, which in turn just amplify’s the Democrats total lack of any party plan.
- A lack of any ideas, coupled with the disagreements within the party factions on most of the current major issues,is the 800 pound gorrilla the Dhimmies will try desperately to downplay. All Bush bashing all the time, and scared to death to tell the American electorate their real agenda and goals. Every time they try that they get kicked to the curb at the ballot box.
- Bang
Delay also needs to worry about Ed Buckham, his ex-chief of staff and Michael Scanlon, his ex-press secretary, who have also pleaded guilty. Delay is a scumbag thief who pretends to believe in God. What he believes in is Power. Ney of Ohio is next. And bush will be got, because “I” don’t listen to anyone anymore I just look at what people have done and continue to do. “I’ll know them by their deeds.” The Republic Party is corrupt to it’s core and the Democratic Party ain’t much better, but it is out of Power. Peace
On the continuing discussion if liberalism or conservativism is the answer…. liberals will continue to cry that conservatives don’t care but the census bureau released the statistics today that per pupil spending is at the all time high of $8,287 (lagging information as of 2 years ago).
The person on Michael Medved’s show says the same report mentions another figure of $9,660 as the true amount spent if taking into account something that I didn’t catch.
While liberals like to accuse and talk as if they KNOW someone doesn’t CARE … it is all BUNK. Look at the facts and figures. Look at the results. We need more individual personal responsibility in this country. It would do wonders if we all took more responsibility for ourselves, our retirement, our health, etc. The safety net should not be diluted by everyone because the non-able-bodied need it.
Don’t waste your time Baklava. You are using facts to combat ignorance and you know that doesn’t work with libs. Tommy is a perfect example. When confronted with facts, he cursed and claims that he gave up (if only that were so). I’ve wasted many hours trying to get libs/dems to see certain things using facts and evidence and know that it is an exercise in futility.
DeLay was for one-party rule. HE said that was his goal.
How does that fit into your concept of democracy?
It surely doesn’t fit mine, or the framers of the Constitution for that matter.
It suits a fascist like DeLiar just fine.
DeLay not only did the right thing, he did the smart thing. He took one for the team! I have even more respect for him now.
I have eternal hope. I actually converted an African American (had to use that term even though he doesn’t) in 1999. Hey. It happens from time to time. I was converted myself in 1991.
That was in the 51st out of 54 year rule by Democrats essentially Solitaire. How did that fit into your concept of democracy. The majority of Governors, state legislatures, Senators and Representatives and from time to time president. That changed in 1994. Now it’s the other way around. It might continue that way because it’s change coincided with people’s ability to see a whole different set of information. It wasn’t spoon fed to us by ABC, CBS, NBC and CNN anymore.
As much as liberals hate talk radio and Fox News or the townhall.com or Blogs like these, I’d say this is democracy and free speech at work here bud. I’m happy to discuss ideas/solutions/policy. But why is it that liberals seem to focus on the personalities like Delay, Rove and Bush. Who cares about them? Shoot Bush is to the left of center (bigger government) on many issues. An all time spending high for health programs, veterans programs, education programs, social programs, etc. DO you think that is to the right of center?
The Left’s real target is anyone who makes more then $150,000, a year. Anyone’s income over that amount should be taxed at the rate of 100%. Nobody on this blog would be effected by that new law, right? The Left is also after warmongers, you know the usual suspects: Zionists, Armageddonists, neo-cons,Big oil,racists,xenophobes and capitalist. Peace
The Left’s real target is anyone making more money than they do, or anyone more ambitious or virtuous that makes them look bad. Witness their disdain for military people, duty, honor, country, how dare they!
Sorry for the delay in responding, Baklava. Here is what I would have liked to have seen happen: Make Democrats and the MSM trot out Tony Rudy and Jack Abramoff as witnesses against DeLay. Let them explain why these two men were “the culture of corruption” yesterday and “unimpeachable witnesses” today. In short, make Democrats and the MSM do what they loath doing – prove what they say.
On the other hand – I am not in DeLay’s shoes. Maybe he was just tired of the smears of Democrats and the MSM. And CZ may be right as well – he may have taken one for the team in this case.
Baklava, you are correct about the false accusations that are already bring spread by the Far Left on a variety of issues. But I predict that what is to come after this will be far worse that what has come before (perhaps I am too much gloom-and-doom). This is just a prediction, of course.
I respect what you say as well, Baklava. Thanks for the ringing defense of freedom you give every day!
- Ahhh, we get to see Steves real problem, and that of the left in general. Jealuosy, pure simple jealousy. Take down anyone who makes more money than them, or is successful, or religious, ect ect. The party of the eternally intolerant, bigoted, and brain dead.
- Bang
No Bak. I don’t think he is a fiscal conservative at all. I never believed Bush to be what he presented himself to be, compassionate or conservative. But that’s not important. What IS important is where our money is going. His party’s spendingg cuts have been primarily to domestic programs that would benefit our own citizens. Those domestic spending cuts, and debt, are what is financing the war. We know where the debt is going to land, on our heads. For all your talking about what the Left wants, maybe you could tell me how this stuff fits into YOUR schema?
Yes, the people ELECTED the Dems for a very long time, Bak. The Dems helped the people in the depression with the New Deal and they haven’t forgotten that. Neither have the Republicans. But things have changed, haven’t they? Re-alignments, magma shifts. Who represents the people now? People like Severian with statements like ” Witness their disdain for military people, duty, honor, country, how dare they!” That’s silly. My dad is a colonel, retired, and I know he loves his country, and he is definitely on the Left. So when do people ever get honest? This DeLay guy, he got your wholehearted support, ok, you were loyal, he let you down… MAYBE.
But really… to set as a goal and gleefully obtain one party rule? How can anyone expect to maintain that kind of power without the tacit acceptance of a certain amount of … subjugation? I mean, what’s the point of even saying such a thing unless that is exactly your intention? Agh. It’s a manipulated distortion of the democracy we all cherish. And look what’s come of it!
I suspect that the same thing will happen this time that happened in the Depression. People in the middle are gonna say, we gave you guys a chance, and it’s fubar. DeLay and his K Street Porject went a long way toward making that situation. The seeds of that scandal and many more are in K Street, and you know that same K Street money will flow to the Dems when they return a majority. Then, what, the same thing all over again? What this country needs is to get the bucks out of the game, somehow. We don’t need to have the parties spending millions on tv ads that drill the same mind numbing soundbite into our brains for 5 months. It might be a very good thing to take the money out of the campaign!
But lunches. Trips to the gym. COme on. I dispair.
oh, I’m not used to typing that word,.. “despair.” Sorry for the mistake, but I think you take my meaning.
“The Left’s real target is anyone who makes more then $150,000, a year…Nobody on this blog would be effected by that new law, right?” Comment by steve @ 4/4/2006 – 7:46 pm
EXCUSE ME? And just who are you to decide where to draw a line, Mr. Steve?
My gay partner and I have adopted ten children of asian and hispanic heritage. Recently my partner just lost his job with a big interior design firm in mid-town manhattan. This is an outrageous comment. I need my extra $10. latte or two in the morning and still be able to make contributions to moveon.org. And what about our summer retreat in the Hamptons? What about my plants? How could could we afford our AuPair?
How dare you…you beast! Your insensitivity makes me so angry I could just snap a twig! You have absolutely NO compassion for urban progressives like us who want to change the world!
Solitaire wrote patently false statements by saying, “His party’s spendingg cuts have been primarily to domestic programs that would benefit our own citizens.
Sorry. But domestic spending programs have not only been cut bu thave risen higher than defense spending ovber the last 5 years. Undeniably true and I can only say that your misinformation is black and white false.
You continued with false information by saying, “The Dems helped the people in the depression with the New Deal”
Look it up. UNEMPLOYMENT remained between 25% – 20% through the Great Depresssion 1929-1940 and unemployment didn’t end with then RAW Deal but did end with WW2. It is also undeniable. Rewriting history is waht the press has been allowed to do for 54 years. This has ended.
You went on with factual misinformation by saying, “This DeLay guy, he got your wholehearted support, ok, you were loyal, he let you down… ”
I’ve been saying the personality doesn’t matter. No politician has ever had my whole hearted support. Conservativism and the ideas have my support. Do you like being told you are wrong?
The left has had and continues to have the power in this country for over 6 decades. This government has grown every year for over 6 decades and I’m taling about social programs. Your infatuation with thinking the right has power and that we have one party rule is absurd when you see that bigger and bigger government has been advancing.
You said one thing right. You said, “What this country needs is to get the bucks out of the game, somehow. That includes:
1) Removing forcefully without people’s say their money from their paycheck as in CA to the tune of $56 (ala my neighbor) per paycheck and sometimes more to siphon off to the DNC
2) Hollywood people and or rich people in general (like Soros) being able to give soft money to the tune of 1 million dollars a pop.
3) Groups such as the NAACP and AARP and Sierra Club being able to spend money on politics and act like they aren’t partisan and be tax exempt
I’m totally in favor of hard money contributions. Conservatives/ Real everyday Americans who are hard working give more towards conservatives and conservatives out raise hard money (which has a $2,000 limit) by far. Democrats just can’t raise but 1/2 of the hard money amounts that Republicans do because their message is NOT appealing to middle America. NOT at all.
You mentioned only the time frame of the Depression, which was, of course, awful for most of that period. Mom talks about it a great deal. Her family was living on the beach in NJ and collecting driftwood to stay warm. She says the New Deal saved them, their family, their friends. Her memory isn’t what it was, but she hasn’t forgotten THAT. She never will. So I guess we can both accuse each other of rewriting history, but neither of us can do either.
The thing is, we agree about Campaign Finance Reform. Hard money, yes, fine as long as the limit isn’t lifted any further. The rest of the money in politics, as far as I’m concerned, is just legalized bribery. Get rid of the 527s, get rid of all PACS. Have a level playing field where ONLY citizens, real live citizens, can contribute political bucks and I would be very happy.
The economy rebounded at the start of WW2. Why has anyone attributed misery being ended with the New Deal as opposed to the newly rebounded economy brought on by the war effort? The New Deal was not relevant to ending misery (mostly) for people in the 50’s and 60’s. It enabled economic freedom for seniors… as they were able to retire and not have to live with family anymore sometimes (if they had other savings as well)
It’s nice to hear that the press worked wonders in pumpin gin misinformation back then also. I know that the Democrats enjoyed a 54 year rule for that reason mostly. So tell me then. Why do you attribute misery ending with the New Deal versus the booming economy due to the war. After War’s end the economy stayed booming and people bought cars had babies, and thus the baby boom. Rewriting history is not an option. I’d like you to explain how you get from point a to b.
I’m glad to see we agree on money in politics. Normal Americans contributing contribut efar more in hard money to Republicans yet there isn’t a working conservative majority yet. Never has been. Not until we can achieve 60 conservatives in the Senate.
With the break on the legacy media monopoly we are inching closer towards that goal. Hopefully we’ll see it in 10 years.
Bak, the worst of the Depression was well over by 1939.
It almost sounds like you are suggesting that we stay on a permanent war footing to maintain a healthy economy?
Bak, you twisted this around pretty good…
“Solitaire wrote patently false statements by saying, “His party’s spendingg cuts have been primarily to domestic programs that would benefit our own citizens.
Sorry. But domestic spending programs have not only been cut bu thave risen higher than defense spending ovber the last 5 years. Undeniably true and I can only say that your misinformation is black and white false. ”
Now, I don’t know what you meant by saying in the same sentence that they have been cut but they have risen higher than defense spending. That sentence makes no sense to me. But I can defend my statement about budget cuts. It’s true.
and this…
and this…
or this…
LINK
You keep saying it, but I don’t think the Democratic party managed to fool the American people all of those 54 years. It would seem that the Dems managed to please the people enough to stay in power that long. But you can say it if you want. I just don’t believe they didn’t know what they were voting for over those 54 years.
And if the Republicans get more “hard-money” when the campaign finance laws are reformed, so be it. For sure, the impact of money on politics will fade, and that can only benefit us all.
oh darn, I’m new at this link thing.
I’ll just cut an paste them in.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3319-2005Feb6.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58762-2004May26.html
http://www.cbpp.org/2-27-04bud-pr.html
http://www.ombwatch.org/article/articleview/2658/1/2?TopicID=1
Sorry.
solitaire wrote, “It almost sounds like you are suggesting that we stay on a permanent war footing to maintain a healthy economy?
No. I am not making that suggestion. But the facts are the facts.
solitaire wrote, “ Now, I don’t know what you meant by saying in the same sentence that they have been cut but they have risen higher than defense spending.
Your mind skipped the NOT in between have and been. You then didn’t insert the NOT into your sentence. Spening hasn’t been cut and in fact has risen more than defense spending.
Your links are proof to why there is a conservative versus liberal fight in this country in the media. There actually hasn’t been cuts though the legacy media talks about it that way. If you look at how much has been spent from year to year it GOES UP. NOT DOWN.
The Washington Post / politicians / journalists call a decrease in the amount of increase a cut but it’s still an increase.
Aint that wild.
You may actually have hope for yourself solitaire if you take this opportunity to learn. I’m serious. I’m not being arrogant.
Here are some links for you:
Research with years worth of actual data
Chart from the above link that shows large increases for everything (no cuts) including Housing, Veterans, Energy, Social programs, Education, etc. Quite the contrast from the Washinton Post articles huh.
While we are at it look at this concerning rich and poor taxes
Also. Notice page 9 of this article
The total dollar amounts are on the last page of that document. Spending has NOT decreased. Period. Decreases in the amount of increase are called cuts.
That’s how the press and Clinton got away with saying Republicans are cutting Medicare by 270 billion for 5 months during 1995. It is factually untrue. A 7% increase each year per year for 7 years is not a cut.
Liberals saying it 100 times doesn’t make it true.
BTW, Can you tell me what the unemplyment rate in the U.S. was in 1939?
Solitaire?
Oh comeon Bak. I just copied and pasted the text from your remark. Here it is again…
“But domestic spending programs have not only been cut bu thave risen higher than defense spending ovber the last 5 years.” Your text hasn’t changed. Still doesn’t make sense. But that doesn’t matter. Really. You wrote an unintelligible sentence, big deal. I just didn’t understand it. Still don’t,
You obviously didn’t read MY links, which clearly dilineated the cuts. You may not like the Washington Post, but there are plenty of other links. Google it and you will find thousands. What sources DO you trust? Your links, like the one to the Heritage Foundation, are opinion articles, not facts dear. I don’t have the time to beat this dead horse.
Unemployment rates are easy.
1929 %3.2 the crash begins late in year.
1930 %8.7
1931 %16
1932 %23.6
1933 %24.9 Roosevelt takes office. 1934 %21.7 the long recovery begins
1935 %20.1
1936 %16.9
1937 %14.3
1938 %19.0 there was a year of recession
1939 %17.2
1939 is generally thought to be the end of the Depression, per se, because the recovery was well on it’s way by 1939.
Regarding the Republican resentment of the New Deal… in 1933, alarmed by Roosevelt’s plan to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor, a group of millionaire businessmen, led by the Du Pont and J.P. Morgan empires, plans to overthrow Roosevelt with a military coup and install a fascist government. The plot is foiled when Butler reports it to Congress.
I think this is where the resentment really begins.
It would seem that the part of the preamble to the Constitution that says our government is to “provide for the general welfare” is thoroughly resented by the GOP these days. The people who went through the worst of the Depression, which was generally accepted as hands-down awful, decided there was a bottom line through which NO CITIZEN should have to fall. The GOP seems intent on eradicating that line. I will never agree to that. It seems born of the most grotesque self interest and extreme greed. Not my bag.
Solitaire wrote, “I just copied and pasted the text from your remark. Here it is again…”
The issue is not what you copied and pasted but what you interpreted (reading comprehension). You wrote, “I don’t know what you meant by saying in the same sentence that they have been [no NOT in here] cut” You can tell me that you copy and pasted 100 times. It still doesn’t change the fact that you think social programs have been cut and you think I wrote they’ve been cut when they HAVE NOT.
Solitaire wrote false accusation (consistent with is pattern) by saying, “ You obviously didn’t read MY links, which clearly dilineated the cuts”
I did read your links. I’ve read those links and others like it for over 3 decades. It’s why I was liberal and then when I had the courage to do research and visited the library 3 times a week for a year in 1991 I converted to conservativism. You are messing with someone who is very well read on the topic. There has been NO cuts. Maybe to a little program here and there but the money has always increased EVERY year to the general large Department/Agency. Every year social, health, veterans, education programs in general get LARGE increases. More than inflation. The increases in spending have been more than the increases in defense spending over the last decade. That is fact. Your accusation that I didn’t read is false. You can keep up the pattern or try due diligence and honesty. Did you read the links I gave? What do you think about the substance of the information presented? Don’t discount it just because you think of it as opinion (which by the way the Washington Post articles were). Look at the sources of the NUMBERS that were given. They give you the sources of hte information. Do you think the substance is BUNK? Let’s take a leap down logic lane. If over the last decade the Federal Budget has gone from 1 trillion in spending to 2 trillion in spending where do you attribute all of the increases in spending went? Defense? No. That’s only about 100 Billion dollar increase over the last decade. So. What about the 900 Billion per year in addition spending? Pork projects? No. Where solitaire. Where are the actual cuts and to which Department? No federal Department has had ANY CUTS in any one year. Period. Have the courage. Do the due diligence. Stop with the negligence and false allegations. The Washington Post will write what they write and so will 1,000 other writers on the web. But they cannot and will not tell you from year to year what the total budget dollars for each federal department has been like the Heritage Foundation does.
Solitaire wrote, “I don’t have the time to beat this dead horse.” Then quit with the false allegations at least until you do find time to do the due diligence and stop being negligent.
You did a great job with the unemployment rates. My memory was 18% at 1939 and my memory was close. Thanks for posting for all to see that the Depression was NOT over by 1939 which BTW the U.S. was well into the war by that year but just hadn’t declared it. You can see that WW2 WAS the event that ended the Great Depression. Maybe only you can’t. Or relatives who were brain washed by the legacy media.
Solitaire wrote, ““provide for the general welfare” is thoroughly resented by the GOP these days”
What is supposed to be a safety net has turned into a hammock and the safety net that is needed by those who are elderly and non-able-bodied is diluted by people who are able-bodied. What do you think of that? Do you like that fact? Why would you want to dilute the safety net for those who need it?
Personal responsibility is what conservatives talk about. We aren’t talking about dismantling safety nets. This country has come a long way. The government gets larger every year and you act like it’s not. The government has gone well beyond what it should be doing and you act like the “GOP” is against anything and everything social program wise. The Republicans have been in power since 1994 and have grown ALL social spending and you continue on with the legacy media and act like the GOP is cutting and not caring about the general welfare. What you do is propoganda and spew false allegations. Both parties are to the left of center on this topic. Both are growing government and you lefties are not recognizing reality and not willing to do the due diligence to not be negligent. How do you feel about that pattern?
Solitaire wrote, “The GOP seems intent on eradicating that line. ”
What gives you that indication in your own words? Not a link.. Not someone elses analysis. We’ll go from there.
solitaire wrote, “Not my bag.” No. But what is your bag seems to be believing the worst about the 51% of Americans who are conservative and vote that way. What is your bag is writing false allegations. What is your bag is being negligent/lazy.
It’s ok. It isn’t just you. I work in the state of CA and get emails like this:
The email goes on. But the writer writes falsehoods. If I were to respond and point them out (as WIC’s budget has increased every year and increases again), I’d be fired probably.
This is the kind of stuff that makes it to the Washingto Post articles but never do they tell you the total dollar amount spent from year to year.
Then people all over the Internet (referring to your search on Google comment) write more and more. So it’s all true I guess. The total dollar amount has been going up every year for 3 decades yet what they write is true somehow. It’s magic. It’s voodoo cuts. It’s the GOP making things up with the numbers. It’s Heritage’s opinion. It’s the GOP not caring. It’s the GOP against that line that you referred to. It’s the evil mean corporations and interests for the rich and against the poor just pulling numbers out of hat.
The funny thing is you ar telling ME that I don’t care about people. But I’m telling you I do. I care about people who are non-able-bodied and elderly and want those who are able-bodied to learn how to fish as opposed to just receiving fish. That is love and caring. Dispensing myths and propoganda is not.
You keep talking about totals going up. But that can be very deceiving, as you know.
Our population numbers have been growing.
The number of people collecting social security, for instance, has grown as baby boomers are retiring. So you can cut the SS benefits, and still the “total” numbers will go up. You are only interested in the totals? That doesn’t tell the whole story. I’m so tired of the “falsehoods” stuff. It’s not like you explain your numbers either, but you make grandiose statements like this one… patently false.
” What is supposed to be a safety net has turned into a hammock and the safety net that is needed by those who are elderly and non-able-bodied is diluted by people who are able-bodied “.
That may have been true at one time but Congress reformed the welfare programs. They’ve been cut to the bone! It’s no longer true that we have a welfare roll full of loafers. I’m sure you can find some cheaters, there are cheaters everywhere, even in church, but the programs are targeted to those truely in need.
You declare the 51% that voted for Bush as having conservative values, but I think not. I think he courted a lot of the people in the middle with fear. When the Dems are back in, and I guess they will be seeing the way things are going, do I get to declare that everyone who voted for a Dem is a die hard Liberal? Maybe they will just be disaffected Americans. Maybe many will be Americans in the middle that have had enough of BushCo.
The total increases have gone up more than inflation and population increases combined. Period. No cuts no matter how you spin it.
solitaire asked, “You are only interested in the totals? No. I’m interested in the truth. The Democrats for 5 months straight in 1995 claimed the Republicans were cutting Medicare 270 Billion dollars and it wasn’t the truth. It was going up 7% per year for 7 years and that is more than 49% compounded. It was more than the new recipients and inflation combined. The legacy media and Democrats can try to spin their way out of a lie but the American people deserve better than the name calling and accusations about what Republcians or conservatives “care” about. Insults as to what we “care” or don’t “care” about does not advance the debate and is grossly negligent.
solitaire wrote, “I’m so tired of the “falsehoods” stuff.” Then stop writing falsehoods. Stop talking about what you perceive we care about when you obviously don’t know. It doesn’t advance the debate of ideas.
solitaire wrote, “ That may have been true at one time but Congress reformed the welfare programs.” This one is a good example. Many Democrats opposed making able-bodied people look for and obtain work. Able-bodied people should not dilute the safety net for non-able-bodied people. ANd that was only ONE program. And it’s darn good that Congress reformed it. That reform was opposed to vehmently by a high majority of Democrats and only came about when Republicans finally won. It was common sense reform that most Americans were HAPPY about and Bill Clinton saw that and knew he had to sign it to the dismay of his fellow Democrats.
solitaire wrote, “I think he courted a lot of the people in the middle with fear.” You mean like the Democrats do saying to the elderly that your social security will be taken away and to the black people saying that Republicans are racists? Or do you think that most people honestly didn’t feel that John Kerry’s law enforcement approach is what we needed in the War on Terror. I hardly agree with you that I voted due to fear that Bush gave me. I’m a centrist conservative (not hard right or anything) and I voted FOR Bush and knew that Kerry did not represent what I wanted in America’s War on Terror nor approach to taxes and spending.
YOur last sentence is what you hope. But, Bush isn’t running again and false allegations is not a plan. The reason why there are low numbers for Republicans and Democrats is exactly the reason that Democrats attack but put forth no agenda of their own. It may very well be that the Democrats win but what is the message that they are winning on? Do you know?
Anything but Bush’s policy is not a plan or an agenda or a set of solutions. It’s easy to attack (as you do with negligence) but it’s harder to put forth an agenda of ideas. Anyone can attack those ideas.