It may not. But we don’t need to see defeatist rhetoric helping it not happen.

I believe a groundswell of Americans WANT the 11 – 12 million illegal immigrants PROCESSED in SOME FASHION so that we know WHO is here. To become legal they need to pay the FINES, and jump through the hurdles and be prosecuted for committing fraud if they had fraudulent papers that got them work and whatnot.

Additionally, laws like the prop 187 that was supposed to deny benefits to illegal immigrants need to be considered. Instead states are offering in-state tuitions to illegal immigrants!!!!!!!!!!

It’s backwards from how it should be.

It’d be like library patrons stealing the books instead of checking them out and then us offering them something to eat while they are there committing the stealing.

I feel like I have invited the neighbors over for a gourmet home cooked dinner and afterwards they start rummaging through the cupboards for stuff to take home…or to the next house…and as they are leaving, rather than thanking us for our hospitality, the call us suckers!

Bak, at the end of the day, there’s nothing more I would like to see happen then kicking those that deserve it out on their arses and slamming the door in their faces. But it’s not going to happen. Period. To believe it so is foolish.

Unfortunately, the ONLY solution that insures action is one that facilitates BOTH the politicians looking good and those hiring them to continue making money.

Right now it costs us. It needs to cost them. If the tax is right, our cost will be reduced and perhaps, it might serve as a deterrent to those who want to come here illegally.

Really, I quite amazed this has not been discussed sooner. It wouldn’t be the first time this type of tax was used… Look at sin taxes, specifically cigarettes. Smokers take a disporportionate amount of entitlments relative to healthcare. So if they’re going to do it they’re going to have to pay a HUGE tax on smokes to offset the burden. It makes sense..doesn’t it?

Yeah. Let’s do that. They’d have to admit they were here illegally and that they were using forged documents fraudulently and/or volunteer to make less money by being taxed.

I have a neighbor who is latino that would be laughing at you at this moment. He says they don’t want citizenship. They have everything they need/want already. They receive benefits, social services, etc. They don’t want to go through the process of becoming legal (paying the thousands of dollars and going through the process)

Unfortunately, we have to get a handle on the situation. You can’t let illegal immigration continue unfettered. It has NOTHING to do with Mexicans or latinos. It has everything to do with making sure hospitals in the south aren’t going to close up anymore, budgets are strained, NATIONAL SECURITY is attended to, crime is reduced, the environment in the area is helped.

CB wrote with negativity, “Stopping these folks from coming across the border isn’t too realistic ”

Well… while you sit there saying it can’t be done, we Americans with the can do spirit will get it done. There are areas that have been fenced already where crime is down, property value has come back up and what not. Are you going to say, “I give up” and let the area continue to be pummelled?

Stopping these folks from coming across the border isn’t too realistic and I agree with Bak, 6000 troops is just a token gesture and as much as govn’t and big business love each other enforcement on that end doesn’t seem likely either. So why not? If the money is right for business relative to compliance why wouldn’t they do it?

I personally would not like to see this happen tho. I do want to have compassion on these people. But there is alot of illegalities in the whole complex issue. Iowa is right now looking at passing amnesty for sex slaves for those woman/children who turn in their handlers. I don’t have a problem with that.

We need to strenghten the border to stop the flood of illegals, and for our security. Once this happens we need to start to deal with those that are here already. Especially the criminal element. – Lorica

Another concern is this talk of betrayal. Jeez, it sounds like a bunch of AlGores. Seems to me Bush has always been soft on this issue and even touched on it during his first term. Perhaps some Texans can relate similar tales from his time as governor. So I don’t feel betrayed, just greatly disappointed that on this issue, he’s not in tune with what I’d like to see. Impeach? Don’t be silly.

To the issue itself, count me among those who believe we can deport them. But we won’t have to deport them all. As one person said, we know which industries are big on hiring illegals. Focus on those. What ever happened to INS raids? Get ‘em goin’ agin! Hit these industries and arrest the illegals. Impound their vehicles and perhaps other property. Heavily fine the offending companies. A painful first offense fine that really sends a message and a far greater penalty for second offense that is harsh enough to deter a third. The huge fines and money from auctioning impounded vehicles and such would finance the operation or the building of the wall or fence. Families can figure out for themselves what to do with the children they purposely had while in our country since that comes with breaking the law. If they have friends who are citizens and they’re willing to baby-sit until the illegals figure out a way to come back legally, fine with me. I have no problem with the kids being born here and having citizenship. Between being dealt with harshly and companies too fearful of punishment, there will be less incentive for illegals to make the effort.

A couple of other things:
*let cops seek proof of citizenship from people detained either through traffic stops or whatever, especially if the detained don’t speak English. If the cops can then find them to be illegal, all the better.
*take away benefits that are given to illegals. The most galling I’ve heard is some state (Kalifornia?) offering in-state tuitions for college eduations. Good gosh!

It’s true, there’s a lot of blame to pass around on this one. Any one who’s voting age gets a piece for not being more insistant with their candidates on this issue. So it may get dicey for a lot of people. That’s a bad reason to do it improperly or half-assed. The only way to truly correct or reverse the situation requires severe measures. Not immoral, just severe, as in “This is the RIGHT way, and that’s how we’ll do it, no matter what!” Then, when we see some real results, we can revisit the debate over how many LEGAL immigrants should be allowed in every year.

- Bang

- Theres this “bunny rabbit” image they want to maintain with the world, of how “civil” and ambivolent we are so every one will looooove us. The Carter desease. So G_d forbid we actually move to secure the borders. That would make us look like such a ugly “Super power” and all. Wheres your guilt man. Get with the program.

- Bang

Who is saying they don’t understand what caused the problem? I think everyone recognized a) inaction by Congress and many administrations b) 1986 amnesty giving others hope to fall in line for the next one c) inaction – yes I mentioned that but I’m mentioning it again.

I’ve been saying the SAME thing. But last night the issue WAS addressed (not significantly enough) but OUR fight ahead is with those who think Bush’s proposals are too extreme. There was just a vote today on the tpic with 18 freaking Republicans not voting or voting against a proposal on illegal immigration. Guess who was among some of these politicians. Snowe, Dewine, Specter, etc. McCain and Lott didn’t vote. We have a battle and my point is we need to focus like a laser beam on who is really to blame. Congress is part of the mix. Administration after administration had to deal with Congress.

Cump wrote, “Baklava, with all due respect, the President has never demonstrated an interest in keeping out illegal migrants.”

I don’t believe your statement is technically accurate. I agree that he isn’t doing ENOUGH. If I were president I’d have the issue talked about every month and keep pounding on the issue for Congress to give me something to sign. Bush hasn’t done enough but your statement is inaccurate (I believe). The border patrol has been increased and spending on border security has increased 66%. That is demonstrating more than an interest. But not enough of one.

Cump wrote, “Your thought that, somehow, increased enforcement will deter anyone is simply wishful thinking.”

I tell liberals all the time that you don’t know what my thoughts are. Well… now I’m tellin you. You don’t know and you are inaccurate. Try to be accurate. I don’t think and have never stated that I think that increased enforcement will deter many people. I’m for the minutemen. I’m for the fence/wall. I’m for making illegal immigration a felony. I’m for our states not having to dish out any more money in social programs, etc. CA is burdened to the tune of more than 8 -10 billion dollars. Not to mention rising house prices. Even if illegal immigrants take the lowest cost places to rent that takes supply and demand is increased for shelter.

Scott asked, “If the deportation of 11 million people is the plan, I want to hear how that will be accomplished.”

You only have to start. It’s like asking how are we going to get all the millions of cars to have catalytic converters. You start. Except with this problem more than half of the problem would leave on their own accord if they don’t have jobs and aren’t able to get benefits and are considered a felon. You pose the question as most who do as it is a caravan of buses from Maine to Florida. That is a simple minded suggestion. (I’m not calling you simple minded).

Scott said, “I thought assimilation was a conservative goal.”

The goals is to KNOW who is here for national security concerns and get people operating within the law. There is CURRENTLY NO incentive for assimilation. My nieghbor who is latino has talked to others. His point is clear. They don’t want to be citizens. They want to reap the benefits of being here, send money back home, have an easier life. There are some (for clarity) who want citizenship. But we allow more legal immigrants than all other countries combined and they simply need to follow the law so that we know who is here.

BTW, My issue isn’t deportation. I just wanted to refute what Scott was saying. Because NOBODY is saying that 11 million people have to be deported in a month or year. Nobody. We are simply talking about starting to address the problem. Now let’s get to it.
And for clarity this isn’t a latino issue. Many Islamic militants have come across this border and we DON’T know who is here. We need to process in some fashion everyone who is here. That does NOT mean legalizing them. That should not happen until and unless the borders are secure. As we speak people are coming here because they hear talk of amnesty. This exacerbates the problem.

I gotta agree. After six years of supporting the man through thick and thin, it has come to an issue that I cannot compromise on. I have watched Bush pander to Fox over the last two years and he has seemingly bent over backwards to please the corrupt Mexican leader. I have clung to the belief that there is something bigger and better that he is working towards, but now that he has put his plan on the table, I’ve lost any illusion that he is listening to the American people, and that he will do the ‘right’ thing.

I can’t help feeling that this is a betrayal of American citizens, the same way I feel the Minutemen are being betrayed by their country by having their locations relayed to the Mexican army by our Border Patrol.

Once true border security is in place, then we can worry about the people who are already here. There are many ways to go about solving this part of the problem. Their largest employers are well known (e.g. meat packaging, construction firms). Target them and fine them heavily. Without jobs, they might leave of their own accord. Then we could hit the streets of LA. Round up gang members. Send the illegals home. You can say that America doesn’t want to deport 11 million illegal immigrants. But it is a lie to say we can’t. This is America. We can do whatever we set out to do.

By this time, we might find that we need a larger workpool. If so, increase legal immigration. But not just for businesses to underpay them. Doing that hurts regular americans and the legal immigrants themselves. Without a tight unskilled labor market, unskilled people will stay poor. As a Republican, I’m against our hard-working citizens being poor.

Scott, “who’s to blame” is really not as important as “what can we do” at this point in time. Sure, we both seem to agree that the fault lies with the Democrats in California and Arizona offering free health-care, schools and public services to illegals, as well as lax control on businesses hiring them. But can’t we blame them later, when the issue is on the path to resolution? That is like wasting time finding out who’s fault Katrina was while people are still stranded in 9ft deep water.