Judgment calls no matter how much evidence you have are always opinion. We stated 0 (zero) versus 72 as our evidence on what we are basing our opinion on. Jim stated 8 versus 40 years (leaving out the fact that the last decade has been the most advances in the field and technology thereby equalizing some of the 40 versus 8. Jim repeats it more adamantly and ignores our statements of fact on which we base our opinion and then calls us “liars”. Nice.

Thank you ST for letting us address what opinion versus fact is and the basis for all of our opinions.

We are here through your gracious patience and efforts.

Don’t let the hit you where the good Lord split you on your way out.

Amendment 2 writes into the Missouri Constitution the right to clone humans. Be honest for a change. You haven’t been here and liars are found out quickly here.

Bakky, what I said is not simply an opinion. This is the debating tactic of the ignorant right, to claim that if a fact or basic logical argument is put forth, claim it’s just an opinion. It’s not simply my opinion. Refute it logically or admit that you’re wrong, one or the other. Don’t just claim it’s only one person’s opinion. But that would require logic, something neither you nor Severian are capable of comprehending as you’ve both proven over and over again.

Rather than provide a rationale as to why government should fund a less than promising technology (liberals are always willing to spend other people’s money), or why valid ethical concerns (valid to more than just religious zealots) should be ignored, he instead tries to make this about how mean his opponents in the argument are.

Well, Jim, here’s a free bit of advice for you. Stop sitting there with a runny nose complaining about how the evil Republicans won’t pay for government to wipe it for you, and get off your butt and wipe it yourself. Take some time and money, do some research, and find out which universities are leading the way in ESC research. Give them some money, create a non-profit (only please, don’t take 80% of the till for “administration” as so many “charities” do), setup a dot org web site, push it, get the blogs (if you’re serious and sincere about it, both right and left blogs will support it), collect donations, manage them, find a couple or three researchers and support them, and above all monitor their progress to make sure they aren’t just blowing your money, look for results. In other words, take responsibility for it yourself if you want it done, that’s the beauty of this country, self-starters are respected here, and no one will try and stop you, remember, ESC research is not illegal.

I suspect that Jim prefers the “liberal” way, show you care by spending other people’s money, but wouldn’t raise a finger to do it on his own. You can surprise us Jim, and earn our respect, by doing something other than complaining.

Jim. That is your opinion. There is NO WAY to claim that Sev lied. Sev wrote an opinion. I agree with him and so do people in the field. The condescension and accusation of lying isn’t necessary and doesn’t help the debate.

Jim accused, “You and Severian are both lying through your little teeth and you both know it. ”

No. We are stating an opinion just like you are.

Jim cast aspersions writing, “Severian isn’t bright enough to …”

Is that necessary Jim? I’m thinking you are not very nice.

Jim asserted, “The fact that the majority of people opposing ESC oppose it because of their religiously based opposition to abortion is one that everyone knows,”

That’s what the press (drive-by legacy media) says. Sev and I are two examples of people and there are other people I know who aren’t basing their opposition on religious reasons. But it isn’t a strong argument for you to dismiss religious people either.

Jim wrote, “I haven’t seen anything posted by you or Bakky that indicates any thoughts”

Well….. are you deserving of more? You have repeated your 8 year versus 40 year message. But mostly called people liars and made disparaging remarks.

Jim without looking in the mirror wrote, “Prove me wrong by keeping a civil discourse instead of lying about people who point out your logical fallacies.”

My post was more civil than yours I believe.

Got it, understand, thanks for the glimpse into the mind of the left.

More BS Jim, more useless drivel, more whining about everyone else, no defense of spending tons of government money on a technique that is not yielding promising results, more feeling that only government can do anything, yada yada yada yada…

Go back to your alter of big government, read a few global warming fantasies, you’ll be feeling right as rain in no time.

Severian, if you’re a scientist you are quite probably the worst one getting a paycheck for it in the U.S. But of course given the other lies you post I doubt you are one. You certainly don’t post anything that implies even indirectly any comprehension of basic logic. You BS us with “I notice that you whine and cry, but don’t provide any solid info on the wonderful benefits shown by embryonic stem cells.”. In fact what I did was reasonably point out that you can’t expect results to already exist from a field that we’ve barely begun to research. You, of course, with your staggeringly brilliant scientific mind couldn’t understand that. Since you can’t understand that I think anyone with a brain would realize that you are not in fact a real scientist who comprehends anything about the scientific method or the nature of scientific research. Since you lied about that I am forced to assume that you’re lying about everything else as well. I haven’t seen anything posted by you or Bakky that indicates any thoughts outside the bounds defined by James Dobson, the RNC and Rush Limbaugh so forgive me if I assume that you are in fact not an atheist but are in fact a Bible thumper because you show the same level of intelligence. Don’t like what I said? Tough. Prove me wrong by keeping a civil discourse instead of lying about people who point out your logical fallacies.

Why is it that all the pseudo-science pushers are all in the computer field? You, a guy named Aghast, the modelers who push global warming nonsense packaged as science? I honestly think that computer science teaches too much reliance on mental masturbation and looped code and not enough on reality and practical aspects. Too many models and processes that are divorced from reality.

If we cut through all your BS, we see the traditional leftist rant. Pharmaceutical companies are evil short term profit motive bastards who won’t work on a cure if they can’t sell a drug (I bet you’re one of the types who believes that they have a cure for AIDS but are evilly repressing it so they can sell tons of antiviral meds). Republicans and their supporters are all religious fanatics who stomp on science for fun and because Jesus told them to. It’s governments job to spend billions on things that offer little to no benefit just because money grows on taxpayers, yada yada yada…

For your information, I personally have no moral or ethical problem with embryonic stem cells. I know it must shock you, but there are a lot of Republicans and conservatives like me. I’m an atheist, not a Bible thumper, but I also happen to think that people who do have strong ethical problems shouldn’t just be thrown under the bus. I just happen to know a thing or three about real science, since that’s how I make my living, and don’t think the government is made of money to piss down a hole.

I notice that you whine and cry, but don’t provide any solid info on the wonderful benefits shown by embryonic stem cells. And besides the evil pharmacutical companies, there are plenty of private funded organizations and trusts, liberal as hell, and tons of colleges that can do this research and can fund it without it coming out of my taxes. But then, to people like you, government is the alpha and the omega, you worship government the same way others do God. Embryonic stem cell research is not illegal, get that, NOT ILLEGAL. So, go back to school, finish that biochem or whatever degree and knock youself out. Or would you have to sacrifice that good paying computer job, and you’d rather the government tax the hell out of someone else to pay for it.

Half truths, distortions, misrepresentations, and lies, as we’ve come to expect.