Comments on: The Michael J. Fox ad controversy: one more on a long list of shameless attempts by the left to stifle the debate http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/ Don't dis or dismiss this miss! Sun, 08 Nov 2009 21:37:25 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Big Bang Hunter http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-564555 Big Bang Hunter Sat, 28 Oct 2006 01:35:52 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/#comment-564555 - This is just another one of the many ugly faces of the Secular Proggs, who want total freedom to do anythng they choose with human life, versus people who hold the idea of the sanctity of life. I think this is going to be a very very long and bitter struggle, and I doubt you'll see it resolved in any of our lifetimes. Just imagine the mischief that could be wrought in a setting where people could be raised in groups of 5, actual identical twins, with no way to tell them apart. I think some of the worst on the Left dream of a time when they could plausibly, and finally, avoid any personal responsibility for any act, no matter how grievous. And through all of this, no "feeling" of the rights or care for the human life they would be playing G_d with. It's all about "Me", me, me, and always has been with the Left. - Bang **== - This is just another one of the many ugly faces of the Secular Proggs, who want total freedom to do anythng they choose with human life, versus people who hold the idea of the sanctity of life. I think this is going to be a very very long and bitter struggle, and I doubt you’ll see it resolved in any of our lifetimes. Just imagine the mischief that could be wrought in a setting where people could be raised in groups of 5, actual identical twins, with no way to tell them apart. I think some of the worst on the Left dream of a time when they could plausibly, and finally, avoid any personal responsibility for any act, no matter how grievous. And through all of this, no “feeling” of the rights or care for the human life they would be playing G_d with. It’s all about “Me”, me, me, and always has been with the Left.

- Bang **==

]]> By: Sister Toldjah http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-564330 Sister Toldjah Fri, 27 Oct 2006 22:36:13 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/#comment-564330 yeah, I referenced that piece a couple of days ago in my intial MJF post, I think. The MSM won't feature too many voices like hers in their articles and newscasts about embryonic stem cell research *shock* yeah, I referenced that piece a couple of days ago in my intial MJF post, I think. The MSM won’t feature too many voices like hers in their articles and newscasts about embryonic stem cell research *shock*

]]> By: Drewsmom http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-564317 Drewsmom Fri, 27 Oct 2006 22:15:00 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/#comment-564317 The doctor's words say if all for me ... use adult or cord stem bloood and if you want to do the research on embryotic stem cells do it with private funds ...not my tax dollars cuz I HAVE A RIGHT TO MORALLY DISAGREE WITH THIS.**== The doctor’s words say if all for me … use adult or cord stem bloood and if you want to do the research on embryotic stem cells do it with private funds …not my tax dollars cuz I HAVE A RIGHT TO MORALLY DISAGREE WITH THIS.**==

]]> By: Baklava http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-564265 Baklava Fri, 27 Oct 2006 21:25:59 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/#comment-564265 <a href="http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5977" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><strong>Dr. Mary Davenport's take on the</strong></a> issue: <blockquote>The popular and appealing actor Michael J. Fox has taken to the airwaves in Senate battleground states Missouri, Maryland, and New Jersey with a highly misleading ad urging defeat of Republican Senatorial candidates opposing the use of taxpayer dollars to fund new embryonic stem cell line research. He states, "Stem cell research offers hope to millions of Americans with diseases like diabetes, Alzheimer's and Parkinson's…. But George Bush and Michael Steele would put limits on the most promising stem cell research." Mr. Fox and his ads' sponsors are guilty of conflating embryonic stem cell research, which the GOP candidates and many Americans oppose for destroying a human life in the name of curing other people's diseases, with stem cell research in general, which includes adult stem cell research and umbilical cord blood stem cell research. The only limits in question are on federal funding of new embryonic stem cell lines, requiring the sacrifice of new embryos. Private and state-funded research (California voters are spending six billion dollars borrowing money to fund this) is ongoing. The implicit claim that research based on new embryos is "the most promising" is absurd, completely unsupported by the scientific literature, and an insult to voters, .... </blockquote> She also writes: <blockquote>The plain fact is that embryonic stem cell research is proving to be a bust. There are currently 72 therapies showing human benefits using adult stem cells and <strong>zero </strong>using embryonic stem cells. Scientifically-minded readers can review this medical journal article on the status of adult stem cell research. Adult stem cell therapies are already being advertised and promoted while no such treatments are even remotely in prospect for embryonic stem cell research. The fact is that adult stem cells have already produced remarkable cures, whereas embryonic stem cells have failed. This should come as no great surprise to anyone with a background in high school biology.</blockquote> The doctor writes in conclusion: <blockquote>For <strong>non-adult</strong> stem cell research, a morally <strong>un</strong>questionable alternative source exists: <strong>stem cells drawn from umbilical cord blood</strong>. Already a bank exists in Dubai collecting cord blood stem cells. In short, the claims made in the Michael J. Fox political ads are false and reprehensible, an insult to the voters of Maryland, Missouri and New Jersey, and to all Americans.</blockquote> Dr. Mary Davenport’s take on the issue:

The popular and appealing actor Michael J. Fox has taken to the airwaves in Senate battleground states Missouri, Maryland, and New Jersey with a highly misleading ad urging defeat of Republican Senatorial candidates opposing the use of taxpayer dollars to fund new embryonic stem cell line research. He states,

“Stem cell research offers hope to millions of Americans with diseases like diabetes, Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s…. But George Bush and Michael Steele would put limits on the most promising stem cell research.”

Mr. Fox and his ads’ sponsors are guilty of conflating embryonic stem cell research, which the GOP candidates and many Americans oppose for destroying a human life in the name of curing other people’s diseases, with stem cell research in general, which includes adult stem cell research and umbilical cord blood stem cell research.

The only limits in question are on federal funding of new embryonic stem cell lines, requiring the sacrifice of new embryos. Private and state-funded research (California voters are spending six billion dollars borrowing money to fund this) is ongoing. The implicit claim that research based on new embryos is “the most promising” is absurd, completely unsupported by the scientific literature, and an insult to voters, ….

She also writes:

The plain fact is that embryonic stem cell research is proving to be a bust. There are currently 72 therapies showing human benefits using adult stem cells and zero using embryonic stem cells. Scientifically-minded readers can review this medical journal article on the status of adult stem cell research. Adult stem cell therapies are already being advertised and promoted while no such treatments are even remotely in prospect for embryonic stem cell research.

The fact is that adult stem cells have already produced remarkable cures, whereas embryonic stem cells have failed. This should come as no great surprise to anyone with a background in high school biology.

The doctor writes in conclusion:

For non-adult stem cell research, a morally unquestionable alternative source exists: stem cells drawn from umbilical cord blood. Already a bank exists in Dubai collecting cord blood stem cells.

In short, the claims made in the Michael J. Fox political ads are false and reprehensible, an insult to the voters of Maryland, Missouri and New Jersey, and to all Americans.

]]> By: Baklava http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-564014 Baklava Fri, 27 Oct 2006 18:48:22 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/#comment-564014 Michelle <a href="http://michellemalkin.com/archives/006213.htm" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><strong>exposes Hollywood hatred</strong></a> Don Murphy uses the p word, w word, f word, b word, and s word all in one post about Patricia Heaton and other conservative hollywood types and athletes who made a no on ammendment 2 commercial. Michelle wrote at the end of her post: The name of Murphy's production company, appropriately enough, is Angry Films. Of course, Don Murphy won't be the issue to the drive-by legacy media the way they tried to make Rush the issue. Michelle exposes Hollywood hatred

Don Murphy uses the p word, w word, f word, b word, and s word all in one post about Patricia Heaton and other conservative hollywood types and athletes who made a no on ammendment 2 commercial.

Michelle wrote at the end of her post:
The name of Murphy’s production company, appropriately enough, is Angry Films.

Of course, Don Murphy won’t be the issue to the drive-by legacy media the way they tried to make Rush the issue.

]]> By: Baklava http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-564010 Baklava Fri, 27 Oct 2006 18:41:05 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/#comment-564010 That's the same as the biotech companies who pushed for the 3 billion bond in CA 2 years ago... One great father of our country said something about the people learning that when we can vote for goodies the country is over or something. I hope I didn't mangle that thought too badly. Because no lunch is free. That’s the same as the biotech companies who pushed for the 3 billion bond in CA 2 years ago…

One great father of our country said something about the people learning that when we can vote for goodies the country is over or something. I hope I didn’t mangle that thought too badly.

Because no lunch is free.

]]> By: Big Bang Hunter http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-564009 Big Bang Hunter Fri, 27 Oct 2006 18:38:25 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/#comment-564009 - O'Reilly mentioned an aside last night, when he was doing the M.J (I'm heavily medicated) Fox's political spiel for McCaskill. He said that there's apparently some couple who have invested 25 MILLION in the pro embryo stem cell agenda, where they stand to make a fortune if she get's in and pushes the requisite legislation. That could prove interesting. Veddy interesting....The plot thickens yea verily... - Bang **== - O’Reilly mentioned an aside last night, when he was doing the M.J (I’m heavily medicated) Fox’s political spiel for McCaskill. He said that there’s apparently some couple who have invested 25 MILLION in the pro embryo stem cell agenda, where they stand to make a fortune if she get’s in and pushes the requisite legislation. That could prove interesting. Veddy interesting….The plot thickens yea verily…

- Bang **==

]]> By: Severian http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-563888 Severian Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:53:51 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/#comment-563888 I can see your point Lorica, I'm anything but religious, but medicine made out of people has a creepy, soylent green kind of feeling to it. And how people react to a disaster like getting an incurable disease or condition is in large part dependent on their personality an beliefs. Some will want a cure no matter what has to be done, others will refuse treatment if it goes against their moral beliefs. That doesn't necessarily make one person right and the other wrong, but there are things that fall outside of the gray area and are definitely wrong. But of course, Billy Graham isn't allowed to comment because he's a Christian. One Babylon 5 episode had a really similar theme. They had fought a major war against another race, and had caught a noted war criminal of that race, a person who did horrible medical experiments on captured prisoners. This woman was worse than all the concentration camp doctors combined, but she had an ace in the hole, she had a little drug she had invented that would grant immortality. Because of that, the governments of all the worlds that had fought against her kind decided to let her live if she gave up the formula. The kink was, and this was something she loved, you had to kill one person for every person you gave immortality to. She thought of this as her crowning achievement, believing, rightly so, that most wouldn't care, and that the governments that held her in such contempt would kill millions more than her kind ever did to get the drug, this was her revenge in a way, making everyone else behave worse than she did. In the story, in the end as her ship was departing it was destroyed by someone who thought that this medicine came at too high a price. This is an interesting story, in many ways it's a metaphor for this exact embryonic stem cell debate, and one's opinion on whether it should be allowed or not depends on where on the sliding scale betwee sperm and egg and crying baby people think life begins. I can see your point Lorica, I’m anything but religious, but medicine made out of people has a creepy, soylent green kind of feeling to it. And how people react to a disaster like getting an incurable disease or condition is in large part dependent on their personality an beliefs. Some will want a cure no matter what has to be done, others will refuse treatment if it goes against their moral beliefs. That doesn’t necessarily make one person right and the other wrong, but there are things that fall outside of the gray area and are definitely wrong. But of course, Billy Graham isn’t allowed to comment because he’s a Christian.

One Babylon 5 episode had a really similar theme. They had fought a major war against another race, and had caught a noted war criminal of that race, a person who did horrible medical experiments on captured prisoners. This woman was worse than all the concentration camp doctors combined, but she had an ace in the hole, she had a little drug she had invented that would grant immortality. Because of that, the governments of all the worlds that had fought against her kind decided to let her live if she gave up the formula. The kink was, and this was something she loved, you had to kill one person for every person you gave immortality to. She thought of this as her crowning achievement, believing, rightly so, that most wouldn’t care, and that the governments that held her in such contempt would kill millions more than her kind ever did to get the drug, this was her revenge in a way, making everyone else behave worse than she did. In the story, in the end as her ship was departing it was destroyed by someone who thought that this medicine came at too high a price.

This is an interesting story, in many ways it’s a metaphor for this exact embryonic stem cell debate, and one’s opinion on whether it should be allowed or not depends on where on the sliding scale betwee sperm and egg and crying baby people think life begins.

]]> By: Lorica http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-563848 Lorica Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:37:29 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/#comment-563848 Has anyone asked what Billy Graham thinks of embryonic stem cell usage??? Seems to me that there is alot of focus on Michael J. Fox's opinion that Embryonic Stem Cell usage will help him, but the science thus far does not support that opinion, nor does he support this opinion financially. Which to me is a clarion call that he doesn't believe what he is saying in the ad. I once heard Billy say that he was thankful for all that the Lord has done for him, and that Parkenson's would allow him to see his Lord and Saviour all that much faster. That is an opinion that I can grasp. Once M. J. Fox entered the arena of politics, he opened himself to criticism. This should of been expected by him. He is not beyond criticism because he is suffering. He said himself he is not a victim, so he is capable of defending his statements. There is alot of wrong information in all of this, I worry about where science is taking us. In a strictly spiritual sense I would never want a medication made from an embryo. Just something about it that bothers me greatly. - Lorica Has anyone asked what Billy Graham thinks of embryonic stem cell usage??? Seems to me that there is alot of focus on Michael J. Fox’s opinion that Embryonic Stem Cell usage will help him, but the science thus far does not support that opinion, nor does he support this opinion financially. Which to me is a clarion call that he doesn’t believe what he is saying in the ad. I once heard Billy say that he was thankful for all that the Lord has done for him, and that Parkenson’s would allow him to see his Lord and Saviour all that much faster. That is an opinion that I can grasp.

Once M. J. Fox entered the arena of politics, he opened himself to criticism. This should of been expected by him. He is not beyond criticism because he is suffering. He said himself he is not a victim, so he is capable of defending his statements. There is alot of wrong information in all of this, I worry about where science is taking us. In a strictly spiritual sense I would never want a medication made from an embryo. Just something about it that bothers me greatly. – Lorica

]]> By: ChefJeff http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-563500 ChefJeff Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:19:41 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/#comment-563500 Great analogy sanity!!^:)^^:)^ Great analogy sanity!!^:)^^:)^

]]> By: sanity http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-563199 sanity Fri, 27 Oct 2006 11:00:15 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/#comment-563199 Disclaimer first: I am not calling anyone a terrorists. BUT, that aside, it is amazing how similiar the tactics are... Hezbollah fires from civilian location and if Israel fired back they are reports all over the media that they are killing civilians. The use of human shields (and I equate the Democrats more with this one) that they hide behind while attacking others figuring that no one will attack them back because of who they are using as a human shield. I am sure there are plenty more examples, but the fact remains I see quite a similiarity in tactics. Disclaimer first: I am not calling anyone a terrorists.

BUT, that aside, it is amazing how similiar the tactics are…

Hezbollah fires from civilian location and if Israel fired back they are reports all over the media that they are killing civilians.

The use of human shields (and I equate the Democrats more with this one) that they hide behind while attacking others figuring that no one will attack them back because of who they are using as a human shield.

I am sure there are plenty more examples, but the fact remains I see quite a similiarity in tactics.

]]> By: Drewsmom http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-563111 Drewsmom Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:23:15 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/#comment-563111 Michael Fox has a horrible disease and I hope I nor my family ever has to suffer from it, but the whole argument has been lost with the debate on him and Rush. Great White Rat has it right, the fact that tumors have been detected and they want to PRODUCE the fetal embryos is just another step in cloning. The couple who have a mult-million dollar business in this have alot to gain if this passes, have been left out of the truth here also. Mr. Fox has a right to state his beliefs and we have a RIGHT TO DISAGREE with those beliefs but the left wants to stifle debate on facts, just tell enough to gain sympathy, like there is NO private funding at all for embryonic stem cell research. WHY SHOULD I BE FORCED TO SUPPORT SOMETHING WITH MY HARD EARNED TAX DOLLARS THAT I FIND OFFENSIVE .... but hey, the dems parade out the jersey girls, mama sheehan, Mr. Fox, all to stifle my dissent, who'd have figured? **== Michael Fox has a horrible disease and I hope I nor my family ever has to suffer from it, but the whole argument has been lost with the debate on him and Rush.
Great White Rat has it right, the fact that tumors have been detected and they want to PRODUCE the fetal embryos is just another step in cloning. The couple who have a mult-million dollar business in this have alot to gain if this passes, have been left out of the truth here also.
Mr. Fox has a right to state his beliefs and we have a RIGHT TO DISAGREE with those beliefs but the left wants to stifle debate on facts, just tell enough to gain sympathy, like there is NO private funding at all for embryonic stem cell research.
WHY SHOULD I BE FORCED TO SUPPORT SOMETHING WITH MY HARD EARNED TAX DOLLARS THAT I FIND OFFENSIVE …. but hey, the dems parade out the jersey girls, mama sheehan, Mr. Fox, all to stifle my dissent, who’d have figured?

**==

]]> By: Leaning Straight Up http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-562815 Leaning Straight Up Fri, 27 Oct 2006 07:00:36 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/#comment-562815 <strong>Fox v Heaton in the Stem Cell Debate</strong> My recent blog has generated a lot of heat for my position on Fox using his illness to promote certain democratic candidates.  Also in play however is the anti-stem cell response featuring among other Patricia Heaton.   The ad featured 5... Fox v Heaton in the Stem Cell Debate

My recent blog has generated a lot of heat for my position on Fox using his illness to promote certain democratic candidates.  Also in play however is the anti-stem cell response featuring among other Patricia Heaton.   The ad featured 5…

]]> By: Karl http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-562813 Karl Fri, 27 Oct 2006 06:48:40 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/#comment-562813 Great minds think alike, since I posted <a href="http://leaningstraightup.com/2006/10/26/fox-v-heaton-in-the-stem-cell-debate/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><strong>this</strong></a> today (before I saw yours) Expect a trackback shortly Great minds think alike, since I posted this today (before I saw yours)

Expect a trackback shortly

]]> By: forest hunter http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-562667 forest hunter Fri, 27 Oct 2006 05:19:15 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2006/10/26/the-michael-j-fox-ad-controversy-one-more-on-a-long-list-of-shameless-attempts-by-the-left-to-stifle-the-debate/#comment-562667 As the left continues to expand the meanings of underhanded in diminutive manner, I fail to be surprised at anything they'll say or do anymore. They have travelled so deep inside the belly of the beast, up is down and Alice can never find her way home. Not even Senator flip-flop can track'em with his illustrious tracking skilzzzzz. Popcorn anyone? As the left continues to expand the meanings of underhanded in diminutive manner, I fail to be surprised at anything they’ll say or do anymore. They have travelled so deep inside the belly of the beast, up is down and Alice can never find her way home. Not even Senator flip-flop can track’em with his illustrious tracking skilzzzzz.

Popcorn anyone?

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