Comments on: The immigration debate: The good, the bad, and the ugly – and suggestions http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/ Don't dis or dismiss this miss! Sun, 22 Nov 2009 02:23:12 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: The Random Yak http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/comment-page-1/#comment-711230 The Random Yak Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:15:13 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/#comment-711230 <strong>Another View of News: the Blogger News Roundup</strong> Still looking for a way of handling the news that fits our side of the mountain.  As usual, I’m not keen on writing much about topics others are already handling well enough without me (unless, of course, I’m feeling enough above myself to... Another View of News: the Blogger News Roundup

Still looking for a way of handling the news that fits our side of the mountain.  As usual, I’m not keen on writing much about topics others are already handling well enough without me (unless, of course, I’m feeling enough above myself to…

]]> By: The View From The Cheap Seats http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/comment-page-1/#comment-711199 The View From The Cheap Seats Thu, 14 Jun 2007 06:26:46 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/#comment-711199 <strong>Confessions of an O’Rourke Republican: The Zero-Sum Illusion</strong>   Your money does not cause my poverty. Refusal to believe this is at the bottom of most bad economic thinking. - P. J. O’Rourke I’m picking up the “Confessions of an O’Rourke Republican” series to give a little context ... Confessions of an O’Rourke Republican: The Zero-Sum Illusion

 
Your money does not cause my poverty. Refusal to believe this is at the bottom of most bad economic thinking.
- P. J. O’Rourke
I’m picking up the “Confessions of an O’Rourke Republican” series to give a little context …

]]> By: Brad Marston http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/comment-page-1/#comment-711194 Brad Marston Thu, 14 Jun 2007 03:51:00 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/#comment-711194 I just wanted to let you know that I really enjoyed your post, so much so that I quoted it with a link back to your site and the full post of course. I am kind of new to all the link and trackback thing so I thought I would leave a comment. I will visit again soon. Thank you. I just wanted to let you know that I really enjoyed your post, so much so that I quoted it with a link back to your site and the full post of course. I am kind of new to all the link and trackback thing so I thought I would leave a comment. I will visit again soon. Thank you.

]]> By: hnav http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/comment-page-1/#comment-711101 hnav Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:23:08 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/#comment-711101 thank you for this effort... the entire episode is embarrassing, and many have lost credibility in the process. deeply regretful... thank you for this effort…

the entire episode is embarrassing, and many have lost credibility in the process.

deeply regretful…

]]> By: Judith http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/comment-page-1/#comment-711090 Judith Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:14:52 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/#comment-711090 Must say your passionate verbiage sounds pretty much the same as all the other emotions/words being tossed about. I believe the people of the USA know the immigration system is crippled if not completely broken. Therefore, it makes no sense to most of us to throw more weight on an already tottering system. Enforce the laws, show good intentions of carrying out what you already PUT INTO LAW, then discuss the illegals already here and more LEGAL immigration. This rush is obviously about the 2008 election and the people of the USA are not fools. Must say your passionate verbiage sounds pretty much the same as all the other emotions/words being tossed about. I believe the people of the USA know the immigration system is crippled if not completely broken. Therefore, it makes no sense to most of us to throw more weight on an already tottering system. Enforce the laws, show good intentions of carrying out what you already PUT INTO LAW, then discuss the illegals already here and more LEGAL immigration. This rush is obviously about the 2008 election and the people of the USA are not fools.

]]> By: The Anchoress » Blog Archive » Scanning the ’sphere; from fun to fractures and first lines http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/comment-page-1/#comment-711033 The Anchoress » Blog Archive » Scanning the ’sphere; from fun to fractures and first lines Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:09:27 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/#comment-711033 [...] Dept of I Would Seriously Consider This: if my kids were still school age, because it seems more seriously scholastic, oddly enough. I wouldn’t suggest doing away with public schools because - believe it or not - not all parents may be depended upon to see to their kids edumacation, but the indoctrination techniques of some teachers and dubious field trips might definitely sway me toward home schooling. Dept. of fragments and shards: Lorie Byrd takes a careful look at factionalism and drama queening in the GOP, and makes some salient points while highlighting a few good women. She’s wondering how all that’s working out for you…but I figure it’s too early to tell. We’ll have to see who the inevitable third-party candidate is before we can tell. [...] [...] Dept of I Would Seriously Consider This: if my kids were still school age, because it seems more seriously scholastic, oddly enough. I wouldn’t suggest doing away with public schools because – believe it or not – not all parents may be depended upon to see to their kids edumacation, but the indoctrination techniques of some teachers and dubious field trips might definitely sway me toward home schooling. Dept. of fragments and shards: Lorie Byrd takes a careful look at factionalism and drama queening in the GOP, and makes some salient points while highlighting a few good women. She’s wondering how all that’s working out for you…but I figure it’s too early to tell. We’ll have to see who the inevitable third-party candidate is before we can tell. [...]

]]> By: Chickenhawk Express http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/comment-page-1/#comment-710998 Chickenhawk Express Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:39:42 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/#comment-710998 <strong>About BDS, BBS (Bush Betrayal Syndrome) and IDS (Immigration Derangement Syndrome)</strong> I posted this back on May 23, 2006. Even though it was over a year ago, the words fit the way I feel right now. Talk about history repeating itself... About BDS, BBS (Bush Betrayal Syndrome) and IDS (Immigration Derangement Syndrome)

I posted this back on May 23, 2006. Even though it was over a year ago, the words fit the way I feel right now. Talk about history repeating itself…

]]> By: Leaning Straight Up http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/comment-page-1/#comment-710968 Leaning Straight Up Tue, 12 Jun 2007 04:50:37 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/#comment-710968 <strong>A Straight Up look at Immigration reform, with special guest Sister Toldjah</strong> There are only a couple of issues facing us that polarize people to the extent that immigration reform does.  Both sides are happily tossing around images to validate their points, the left using images of struggling downtrodden people, and the ri... A Straight Up look at Immigration reform, with special guest Sister Toldjah

There are only a couple of issues facing us that polarize people to the extent that immigration reform does.  Both sides are happily tossing around images to validate their points, the left using images of struggling downtrodden people, and the ri…

]]> By: Great White Rat http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/comment-page-1/#comment-710875 Great White Rat Mon, 11 Jun 2007 16:39:13 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/#comment-710875 MD, so much has been made about the "plight" of the illegal immigrants that the MSM and the politicians tend to ignore the effect of bills like this on the legal immigrants. For that reason, it's important that voices like yours and sunsettommy's be heard. It's also the reason I brought that question up in my initial post in this thread. I'm glad you're speaking out, and frankly, I'd have been disappointed had you not done so. Thanks! MD, so much has been made about the “plight” of the illegal immigrants that the MSM and the politicians tend to ignore the effect of bills like this on the legal immigrants. For that reason, it’s important that voices like yours and sunsettommy’s be heard. It’s also the reason I brought that question up in my initial post in this thread.

I’m glad you’re speaking out, and frankly, I’d have been disappointed had you not done so. Thanks!

]]> By: Mwalimu Daudi http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/comment-page-1/#comment-710867 Mwalimu Daudi Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:07:40 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/#comment-710867 Thank you for your kind words Drewsmom. <strong><a href="http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0607/steyn061107.php3" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Mark Steyn, a legal immigrant, has some pertinent thoughts on the immigration bill currently in Congress.</a></strong> Key quote: <blockquote>The bill is fundamentally a fraud. Its "comprehensive solution" to illegal immigration is simply to flip all the illegals overnight into the legal category. Voila! Problem solved! There can be no more illegal immigrants because the Senate has simply abolished the category. Ingenious! For their next bipartisan trick, Congress will reduce the murder rate by recategorizing murderers as jaywalkers.</blockquote> Reminds me of the Cabinet secretary in the Carter administration who got rid of waste, fraud and abuse in her department. Henceforth, she declared, it would instead be referred to as "mismanagement". Voila! Problem solved! I watched Fox News the other night when both Alan Colmes and Juan Williams hectored Mark Steyn over this issue. Remember when white liberal politicians like Ted Kennedy lectured Clarance Thomas, Colin Powell and Condi Rice on how to be black? Why is it so strange to Colmes and Williams that not all legal immigrants are on board with this bill? I have no doubt about the good faith of ST and other solid citizens who either support this bill or support efforts to reach a compromise. However, I also have no doubt about the bad faith of politicians and journalists who are pushing this bill. They want this bill for strictly political reasons (more Democrat-leaning Hispanic voters, more cheap labor for big business, a desire not to appear "racist", a desire to appear to be "doing something", etc.), and are willing to cut corners to get it. I am not going to pull a John Murtha/Mother Sheehan and suggest that legal immigrants have some kind of absolute moral authority on this issue. I am not perfect, and ultimately I could very well be wrong about this bill. However, I do not want to be silent and have my silence mistaken for consent. Thank you for your kind words Drewsmom.

Mark Steyn, a legal immigrant, has some pertinent thoughts on the immigration bill currently in Congress.

Key quote:

The bill is fundamentally a fraud. Its “comprehensive solution” to illegal immigration is simply to flip all the illegals overnight into the legal category. Voila! Problem solved! There can be no more illegal immigrants because the Senate has simply abolished the category. Ingenious! For their next bipartisan trick, Congress will reduce the murder rate by recategorizing murderers as jaywalkers.

Reminds me of the Cabinet secretary in the Carter administration who got rid of waste, fraud and abuse in her department. Henceforth, she declared, it would instead be referred to as “mismanagement”. Voila! Problem solved!

I watched Fox News the other night when both Alan Colmes and Juan Williams hectored Mark Steyn over this issue. Remember when white liberal politicians like Ted Kennedy lectured Clarance Thomas, Colin Powell and Condi Rice on how to be black? Why is it so strange to Colmes and Williams that not all legal immigrants are on board with this bill?

I have no doubt about the good faith of ST and other solid citizens who either support this bill or support efforts to reach a compromise. However, I also have no doubt about the bad faith of politicians and journalists who are pushing this bill. They want this bill for strictly political reasons (more Democrat-leaning Hispanic voters, more cheap labor for big business, a desire not to appear “racist”, a desire to appear to be “doing something”, etc.), and are willing to cut corners to get it.

I am not going to pull a John Murtha/Mother Sheehan and suggest that legal immigrants have some kind of absolute moral authority on this issue. I am not perfect, and ultimately I could very well be wrong about this bill. However, I do not want to be silent and have my silence mistaken for consent.

]]> By: stilichio http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/comment-page-1/#comment-710843 stilichio Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:59:16 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/#comment-710843 1. No fine whatsoever is required to get a PZV. The PZV gives you legal status in the US - the most desirable perk that the bill hands out. The fines to recieve a ZV or citizenship are merely a red herring for those who fail to read the bill properly. The moment the President signs the bill, all illegals become legal. 2. Even fully working illegals will always be a net drain on the US, as they mostly belong to the group of low-skill and uneducated - groups that will always receive more from the public than they put in. 3. Big business. Republicans indeed received a wake-up call as to the fact that big-business lobbyism sometimes does not have the best interests of the US at heart. I see this more as a valuable side effect, rather than some horrible breach of etiquette. 4. The example of Reagan illustrates perfectly why the Bill should not be trusted. Here is what Reagan wrote in his personal diary: <blockquote>"Thursday, October 16 Al Simpson came by to see if he had my support. After 5 yrs. of trying (during which I've been on his side) the House finally passed his immigration bill. They have one or two amendments we could do without but even if the Sen. In conf. cannot get them out, I'll sign. It's high time we regained control of our borders and this bill will do this."</blockquote> It didn't really turn out that way, no? And now many of the same people who fooled Reagan on immigration are trying to fool us again. Letting them succeed would be a tragedy. 1. No fine whatsoever is required to get a PZV. The PZV gives you legal status in the US – the most desirable perk that the bill hands out.

The fines to recieve a ZV or citizenship are merely a red herring for those who fail to read the bill properly. The moment the President signs the bill, all illegals become legal.

2. Even fully working illegals will always be a net drain on the US, as they mostly belong to the group of low-skill and uneducated – groups that will always receive more from the public than they put in.

3. Big business. Republicans indeed received a wake-up call as to the fact that big-business lobbyism sometimes does not have the best interests of the US at heart. I see this more as a valuable side effect, rather than some horrible breach of etiquette.

4. The example of Reagan illustrates perfectly why the Bill should not be trusted. Here is what Reagan wrote in his personal diary:

“Thursday, October 16
Al Simpson came by to see if he had my support. After 5 yrs. of trying (during which I’ve been on his side) the House finally passed his immigration bill. They have one or two amendments we could do without but even if the Sen. In conf. cannot get them out, I’ll sign. It’s high time we regained control of our borders and this bill will do this.”

It didn’t really turn out that way, no? And now many of the same people who fooled Reagan on immigration are trying to fool us again. Letting them succeed would be a tragedy.

]]> By: sunsettommy http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/comment-page-1/#comment-710822 sunsettommy Mon, 11 Jun 2007 05:32:10 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/#comment-710822 <a href="http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell052207.php3" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><strong>LINK</strong></a> The Amnesty Fraud By Thomas Sowell <a href="http://www.JewishWorldReview.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><strong>LINK</strong></a> | Nothing is more common than political "solutions" to immediate problems which create much bigger problems down the road. The current immigration bill in the Senate is a classic example. LINK

The Amnesty Fraud

By Thomas Sowell

LINK | Nothing is more common than political “solutions” to immediate problems which create much bigger problems down the road. The current immigration bill in the Senate is a classic example.

]]> By: The Strata-Sphere » Blog Archive » What The GOP Wrought On Immigration, Part I http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/comment-page-1/#comment-710764 The Strata-Sphere » Blog Archive » What The GOP Wrought On Immigration, Part I Sun, 10 Jun 2007 13:54:10 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/#comment-710764 [...] Update: Sister Toldjah stills has the patience to try and reason with the far right and lays out a long and detailed post on immigation which I can say is indentical to my thinking on this matter. Good luck Sister! I applaud your patience and determination. [...] [...] Update: Sister Toldjah stills has the patience to try and reason with the far right and lays out a long and detailed post on immigation which I can say is indentical to my thinking on this matter. Good luck Sister! I applaud your patience and determination. [...]

]]> By: Drewsmom http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/comment-page-1/#comment-710757 Drewsmom Sun, 10 Jun 2007 10:16:43 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/#comment-710757 MD, what you and your wife have had to go thru is just sickning, pure and simple and not FAIR to say the least and her family should be allowed cuz yall did it LEGALLY!!!!!!!!! Terrye, I need to know more about Fred Thompson, please refer me to things I can read about his votes, ect. when he was in the Senate cuz I rally wanna back someone in the Republican party but so far ------Thanks, and MD, keep the faith, it will get better for you, I promise. We rational people will not let this thing slide, we will keep protesting this issue till our mouths fall off and our blogging fingers grow weak with the Arthur that is already trying to set up in my fingers from the years I have been doing this. **== MD, what you and your wife have had to go thru is just sickning, pure and simple and not FAIR to say the least and her family should be allowed cuz yall did it LEGALLY!!!!!!!!!
Terrye, I need to know more about Fred Thompson, please refer me to things I can read about his votes, ect. when he was in the Senate cuz I rally wanna back someone in the Republican party but so far ——Thanks, and MD, keep the faith, it will get better for you, I promise. We rational people will not let this thing slide, we will keep protesting this issue till our mouths fall off and our blogging fingers grow weak with the Arthur that is already trying to set up in my fingers from the years I have been doing this. **==

]]> By: Little Miss Chatterbox http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/comment-page-1/#comment-710751 Little Miss Chatterbox Sun, 10 Jun 2007 05:20:07 +0000 http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2007/06/08/the-immigration-debate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-and-suggestions/#comment-710751 (*) Wow, wow, wow!!!!! I skimmed this yesterday but took the time to read this today. I can't tell you how good this post is and how much I agree with it. You couldn't have said it ANY better!!! "To accuse the President of ‘betrayal' on this issue when his position should have been well-known from the getgo is baffling to me." The above quote was right on and I'm baffled as well. I also, can't stand Tom Tancredo. This is so good I may have to post excerpts from it. Well said and thanks for the link. (*) Wow, wow, wow!!!!! I skimmed this yesterday but took the time to read this today. I can’t tell you how good this post is and how much I agree with it. You couldn’t have said it ANY better!!!

“To accuse the President of ‘betrayal’ on this issue when his position should have been well-known from the getgo is baffling to me.”

The above quote was right on and I’m baffled as well. I also, can’t stand Tom Tancredo.

This is so good I may have to post excerpts from it. Well said and thanks for the link.

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