But thanks again for showing us how liberals like to project their “values” or lack of them on everyone.

you need to step off on that line of attack because it won’t get you anywhere.

It will, however, get the rest of the regulars here furious and in no mood to listen to you. Ever.

Umm, yeah ok. Let’s just get rid of that thing called due process. Besides its not like we haven’t exonerated AT LEAST 21 people in the last ten years. If you really are a cop – doubt it – you would think that thing you swore to uphold mattered.

joebob, I can personally vouch for the fact that NC really is a cop, and in fact he also went to Iraq to train people in the Iraqi police force, so you need to step off on that line of attack because it won’t get you anywhere.

Since you have already figured out so much about me because of one post (wink, wink) I’m surprised you didn’t know that.

If you really are a cop – doubt it – you would think that thing you swore to uphold mattered.

Um, yeah, joe bob, I was a cop for 12 years. Perhaps it was my oath to the citizens of my city, like the ones who were raped, molested, abused, at the hands of those you so vigorously defend. I merely pointed out the fact that the reason it is so expensive is because they live on death row for decades at a time and you decided to attack me on a personal level. How mature.

Since I am certainly not ashamed of my profession and you are such a highly enlightened and intelligent liberal, perhaps you could share with us what you do for a living?

Umm, yeah ok. Let’s just get rid of that thing called due process. Besides its not like we haven’t exonerated AT LEAST 21 people in the last ten years. If you really are a cop – doubt it – you would think that thing you swore to uphold mattered.

Let’s just line em up and shoot em BEFORE they go to trial. Then you and your cop buddies wouldn’t need that pesky thing called due process at all. Besides, I bet you already know who is guilty down there in NC, right (wink wink).

Why is it for a good lib to discuss something, someone is automatically lying?? I mean how stupid is a person, who doesn’t realize that in todays technologically advanced society, a capital punishment case can’t be fast tracked all the way to the Supreme court in 2 years?? Also, in all capital punishment cases, there is always a Federal review of the original jury trial, and all the evidence presented. Just more dumb blah blah blah from the most ignorant. – Lorica

Umm, yeah ok. Let’s just get rid of that thing called due process. Besides its not like we haven’t exonerated AT LEAST 21 people in the last ten years. If you really are a cop – doubt it – you would think that thing you swore to uphold mattered.

Let’s just line em up and shoot em BEFORE they go to trial. Then you and your cop buddies wouldn’t need that pesky thing called due process at all. Besides, I bet you already know who is guilty down there in NC, right (wink wink).

It must be a right wing conspiracy against you Angryflower!!!

Hey, I’m back! Where are you?? Obviously you’re a coward since you aren’t here right now.

I don’t have all day, I actually have to work for a living. I know that flies in the face your idea of “lefties” though.

I have looked in vain for an argument from on the topic itself.

Why bother being here at all if all you offer is drivel?

In terms of the subject matter, all I have to say is that as great a deterrent the death penalty is or may be in saving many lives, and as great a sense of justice can be achieved by it, I don’t personally feel I have God’s permission to take a life.

Do you?

Comment by Angryflower @ 6/12/2007 – 3:58 pm

The killers never ask for Gods permission.

They could be a supporter of Satan.

Don’t forget that.

By the way is your flower a prickly pear?

As soon as that shoulder is better expect AF to spew some more useless, illogical, off the point drivel.

Executions need to be more rapid, and much more public, if they are to have the maximum deterrent effect. That, and bring back corporal punishment for other minor crimes. People who aren’t afraid of 3 squares and a cot in jail for things would definitely think twice if the penalty was 10 or 20 lashes at the public pillory.

“Cruel and unusual” means you don’t execute someone for stealing a loaf of bread to feed his starving family, not that punishment shouldn’t be cruel, that’s what punishment is. It just shouldn’t be unusually cruel for the crime. Remember that the English Navy still practiced keel hauling in the time frame that the Constitution was written, and the French were still beheading people, in order to get a feel for the proper use of the term “cruel and unusual” in the context of the times.

I don’t personally feel I have God’s permission to take a life.

You should read God’s word sometime Flower. It clearly says that you are to take a rebelious child to be judged by the city elders, and if they find the child to be rebelious, you take the child outside of the city and stone them. Jesus said that if a person harms a child, they should have a mill stone tied around their neck and dropped into the deepest part of the ocean. I guess we do have God’s permission.

Just incase you don’t believe me.

Mark 9:42 NIV
42″And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck.

Deuteronomy 21 NIV
A Rebellious Son
18 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard.” 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.

I know, what you are going to say next, that you don’t believe in that kind of God, my only argument to that would be, then what do you believe in??

You see, the whole reason judges wear black is to tell you that their authority to judge was handed to them by God. And they are the final arbitor of judgement. The death penalty isn’t about us killing criminals, it is about a last alternative to a person who just will not be rehabilitated. I am glad folk like you are around to sympathize with the Ted Bundy’s of this world, infact Ted use to play on women like you to get his victims. Flower do you know how many victims Ted murdered?? Ted Bundy begged to be put to death, and he waived every appeal, except the Federal review of his jury trial, as you cannot waive that one. A murderer chooses his path usually. If they know the ultimate punishment, they make the choice. It is foolishness to have this law on the books and never use it. It only encourages evil people.

Ohhh and as far as your little fantasy about me murdering people please grow up. It is the constant droning about the same thing day in and day out that really detracts from your argument. It is pointless and stupid. It would be like me saying you are a child molester because you don’t want to see them punished to the full extent of the law. Why would you want to molest children Flower?? – Lorica

The fact that the site is anti-death penalty is irrelevant in any case

It’s relevant when you initially claimed to be quoting pure FBI stats, not stats reconfigured to reach a desired conclusion.

Next comes a Flying Pig moment, as a liberal complains about high taxes and excessive government spending:

I object to the death penalty, first and foremost, because it is exceedingly expensive and I don’t like to pay extra taxes to subsidize what amounts to ritual theater

Nor do I. So how about if we reduce the cost by putting limits on the appeals process? That’s the main reason for the expense. In cases where there is absolutely no doubt of guilt, and the sentence has been passed, move to administer the penalty within a sensible time. The left loves to use the “high cost” argument – as they intentionally drive up the cost with frivolous appeals in the hope they can find a sympathetic left-wing judge to throw the entire case out and put the criminal back on the street. So that kind of rhetoric is disingenuous, and I’m being kind when I say that.

But Jim says the criminals are only partially responsible, mind you:

You don’t have to deny that individuals are responsible for their crimes to notice how many of the monstrous or merely pathetic characters in our death rows were grossly abused and neglected as children.

Rubbish, Jim. I know people who were abused and neglected as children who are solid citizens with no criminal record. The choice of committing a capital crime is an individual one. Society doesn’t make anyone cut the throat of an 80-year old lady after stealing her last $5.

In fact, says Jim, we’re all to blame just for locking up the miscreants:

The fact that we incarcerate more of our citizens than any industrial country surely suggests that we are doing something very wrong,

Clearly, one thing we’re not doing wrong, then, is catching the criminals. Kudos to our law enforcement services. Now, if we wanted to be like Jim’s preferred societies in Europe, we could simply decline to catch the criminals and the crime rates would drop immediately. A few years ago I had a laptop and luggage stolen while waiting for a train in Belgium. The police told me they would do nothing, and I shouldn’t have brought the items with me if I were not prepared to have them stolen. So of course they have less crime and a lower prison population. To them, thieves were just people making a living! Jim, is this really the ideal you’re advocating? I’d much rather have a country where the laws are taken seriously.

The problem is that the repeat offenders to not fear returning to prison, which brings us right back to the deterrence question. Without going to extremes, we should make prison time a more unpleasant experience.

there are other effective deterrents that cost significantly less than the death penalty

The reason it is so expensive is because of the 15-20 YEARS that most death penalty residents spend on death row. If they were not allowed to drag out their cases for almost two decades, we wouldn’t have to support them with tax payer money. 2 years tops and you’re gone. Watch and see how much of a deterrent it is.