however I beleive Limbuah & Hannity reach more people everyday than Daily Kos ever will, and are equally important in pushing fringe issues.

Conservative talk radio succeeds because it’s the only media outlet not dominated by the left wing, as Sev pointed out. For every “fringe issue” you can claim Limbaugh pushes, I’ll give you three where the leftist media overkill was evident.

But again, the topic was CONTROL, not popularity or ratings. George Soros takes out the money clip and your so-called political “leaders” line up to take his money and his orders. There’s no equivalent on the conservative side.

Again, I’d like to see people like yourself break the hold of the extremists on your party. It’ll be better for the country in the long run.

…however I beleive Limbuah & Hannity reach more people everyday than Daily Kos ever will, and are equally important in pushing fringe issues.

However many people they reach, they pale in comparison to the number that NBC, CBS, ABC, MSNBC, CNN and the like reach, with their manipulated and distorted news coverage and opinion pieces masquerading as news. Add in NYT and PBS and NPR and you get the picture.

Despite their differences, I believe the pollitical parties use these goups the same way: to spread powerful emotional arguments (based on little fact) that Democrats & Republicans don’t want to say themselves. Most politicans make basic centrist statements, while allowing “non-poplitical agents” to do their dirty work.

I don’t think Moveon really controls the democrats, but they are a growing (& most active/most heavily publicized) member of the democratic party. And yes, that is a problem for democrats.

Look at limbaugh (whose followers are dittoheads?), look at Savage who literally requires that you don’t understand history to listen to his show.

Just as soon as Limbaugh or Savage (who is a real nutcase that most conservatives don’t even like) open up a PAC or 527 and start funneling millions to Republican candidates, you can talk about them in this context. Until then it’s not relevant to conflate entertainers with PACs like MoveOn and such.

I wouldn’t actually say that Bush was evil at all.

As opposed to this remark from earlier?

Bush is nowhere near evil enough to be Hitler.

I’m glad to see you’re backing off the earlier characterization.

Look at limbaugh (whose followers are dittoheads?), look at Savage who literally requires that you don’t understand history to listen to his show.

Apples and oranges. Savage is a fringe character who routinely finishes first in polls of conservatives of their least favorite person on the right. More to the point, neither Limbaugh nor Savage are actively engaged in financing a takeover of the GOP. No one from any conservative group has made a comment to the effect that “we bought it, it’s ours, and we’re taking it back”. You’ll recall that’s been MoveOn’s boast with regard to the Dems.

And you’ll find that the right accepts much more diversity of opinion than the hard left. No commentator – not even Rush – dictates what candidates are allow to say or where they may appear like Kos and George Soros do for your side.

There’s a huge difference between popularity and control. Rush is popular among Republicans, but MoveOn and the associated leftist loons control the Democrats.

I do hope those of you to the left of center can find the backbone to restore some sense to your party. America needs a competitive two-party system.

Hugo Chavez, on the other hand, is vile, I may not go as far as “evil”, which is title I save for things on the order of genocide, but he’s definately a very bad man. He’s also doing exactly what he intends. Hitler was an order of a magnitude worse, dillusional, but fullfilling exactly what he planned all along.

The point remains, however, that your adherents share a common trait, unquestioning, almost religious fervor and approval and support…

Why haven’t you “sane liberals” done anything to recapture the Democratic party from the completely deranged MoveOn/Kos/Soros left-wingers who now own it?

I don’t know. The Daily Kos is already gone. Once you’ve leaned to far in any direction, you fall out of the sky. The democratic party doesn’t listen to individuals anymore either. they’re too concerned with money I should argue in Daily Kos more, but they’re more set up as a feedback room than a conversation house.

Still, this zombie-like/nut-roots affect has been in the republican party as long as the dem party. Look at limbaugh (whose followers are dittoheads?), look at Savage who literally requires that you don’t understand history to listen to his show.

This is the direction of all politics, shrill of voice and low on reason. Have you rebelled against republicans who have raised the shrillness of their voice? Why or why not?

Initially I was attacked by somone because some libs think Bush = Hitler. Now I’m being attacked by someone who claims that the DNC = “Thriumph of the Will”

No…try re-reading the thread. Here’s the sequence –
- I noted that while the left denigrates Bush as Hitler, the strongest condemnation you can find for Hugo Chavez is that he’s a “tool”. Most people with average intelligence or better would conclude that “tool” is a less vilifying term than “Hitler”.

- Your response was that Bush is dumber than Hitler, if not quite as evil. Which led us down the path of how smart der Fuhrer was, with you arguing in favor of his genius. See how the thread got there?

What’s interesting is how you have steadfastly ignored one other more pertinent question, a question I’ve already posed twice on this thread.

You claim to be a “sane liberal”. Leaving aside the question of whether that’s really an oxymoron, why haven’t you “sane liberals” done anything to recapture the Democratic party from the completely deranged MoveOn/Kos/Soros left-wingers who now own it?

But, typically, you fail to understand the “nuance” involved. The typical liberal mind is so nuanced it’s rigid.

As far as the topic at hand goes, it was about Lee Bolinger’s comments to another evil man who is not a genius either. It is a sad commentary on this country that people would critize this man for being truthful and “Speaking Truth to Power”. It clearly shows how today’s left are being led by ignorance of the history of evil men. – Lorica

A note though: How do you tell the difference between pollitical rallies if you can’t read the signs? Last I checked, a moveon.org rally looks just like an anti-abortion rally, a terry schiavo rally, the “orange revolution”…. or just like a gathering at the RNC. Rallys are rallys. They are all propoganda by definition. It’s a bit much equating “triumph of the will” (& all of the emotional baggage of a third reich march) to an ordinary pollitical rally…

Interesting though: Initially I was attacked by somone because some libs think Bush = Hitler. Now I’m being attacked by someone who claims that the DNC = “Thriumph of the Will”. Hmmm…. Irony is sweet.

Ingsoc forever eh?

I am by no means an expert on tanks, so I’ll refer to someone who is
(The answer to this question actually depends on the time period. German tanks were at their best in Normandy, not as good before that. but i digress..)

The American built Sherman was a tank that could do many jobs…. From 1941 to early 1944 the Sherman was a good tank on the battle field and could be repaired easily. The Sherman had several problems. Frist it was too tall which made it an easy target. Also it armor was too thin to stop the large German tank and antitank guns…Shermans would swarm enemy tanks with much larger numbers… At times it took 10 Sherman to kill one Panther or Tiger tank.

As far as Russia

There were still small numbers of the new T-34 when the invasion began, and the rapid German advancement so deep into Russia… forced the Russian industry, … to an unprecedented operation of literally moving its entire remaining military industry factories over 1000 miles further East… to avoid losing it to the advancing Germans.

In those newly built factories, Russia’s military industry restored and far exceeded its pre-war mass production capacity. The furious motivation… to stop the terribly cruel German invaders… and the desperate draconic measures of the Russian regime itself… gave the wartime Russian military industry the high efficiency that Communism never reached [again].

The immense production rate of the T-34 was further boosted by the fact that massive American and British material support enabled the Russian war industry to focus all its effort on the production of a small number of main weapon systems…

So again, without immense western support (& German cruelty), Russia might have caved as well. I think we got off the point somewhere. I think it was something about Iran?

So I haven’t read Mein Kampf yet, it’s on my list of “Memoirs by Crazy Dictators”. Still, you can’t deny that a “totally crazy guy” dramatically shifted the state of the world that affects us today… The Berlin Wall, Israel, the Cold War… Look, I don’t like Hitler.. I’m just trying to point out that sometimes 1 crazy guy can steal control of a nation and deeply impact history forever.

Hitler was a genius, but he was also crazy. I see all of his successes as failures through that kalidoscope. Especially through propaganda, Hitler was a genius. He took a country that was broke, beaten beshelved and he transformed it into the strongest army on earth in 10 years(USA was in a draw-down isolationist phase).

Hitler was no genius, how hard is it to convince a broken and beaten people that their only hope is nationalism. Hitler had many good people around him that made him look genius, but even the quickest glance at Mein Kamph proves that he was crazy, not a genius. Also, no one’s military was all that stellar in the days leading up to WWII. Europe had pretty much had it with the hundreds of years of wars that had gone on in the past and after WWI was looking for decades of peace so everyone was really behind on the times when it came to military equipment. Even Hitler’s military wasn’t all that. Panzers were ok, but England had better tanks and so did Russia. Infact one of the greatest medium battle tanks of WWII was the German’s Panther, and it was a copy of the Soviet’s T34. Hitler sneaked attacked France and England in Egypt, and sneaked attacked Russia. Yes it was stupid for these countries to expect some formal declaration of war, but the truth is if it were not for the sneak attacks Hitler might have gotten the ground he did have.

As far as the Russians go, if they hadn’t entered into treaties with Hitler, Germany might not had the gains he had there too. Treaties give a country a false sense of assurance. – Lorica