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37 Responses to "Liberal reax to Hobby Lobby defiance shows disturbing “Govt is God” mindset"

Elaine says:

December 29, 2012 at 2:48 pm

“EVEN THOUGH THOSE EMPLOYEES HAVE THE OPTION OF FINDING ANOTHER JOB if they don’t agree with the decision”

Employees don’t even have to look for another job, they can just choose to buy their own contraceptives or morning after pills. Hobby Lobby would be violating their employees freedom of religion/speech IF they said employees were forbidden to use contraceptive. Not the position they are taking at all.

Side note: Sotomayor granted rights of Muslim inmate to have Ramadan meals served in jail. Double standard?
Dana says:

December 29, 2012 at 3:08 pm

From what I’ve read, Hobby Lobby isn’t objecting to the contraception part of the ObaminableCare mandate, simply the abortifacient part.

And Hobby Lobby could get off more cheaply by simply dropping employee health care coverage altogether, and paying the $2,000 per employee tax penalty, rather than the around $10,000 per employee it costs companies to provide health insurance.
ObaminableCare and the liberal urge to control « THE FIRST STREET JOURNAL. says:

December 29, 2012 at 4:22 pm

[…] Sister Toldjah, commenting on the reaction of our friends on the left to this, wrote: […]
Joy says:

December 29, 2012 at 4:24 pm

While I do not belong to a Church, I absolutely reject this HHS mandate. It is clearly a violation of our First Amendment. We cannot let our Government get away with this violation or we will allow a precedent to be established. We must fight all violations of our Constitution if we are to preserve the rights and freedoms it provides us.

Again, I don’t belong to a Church, but if Hobby Lobby drops its healthcare coverage and pays the $2,000 employee tax penalty, isn’t it still violating its religious beliefs since it will be paying the Government to cover these ?
SteveP says:

December 29, 2012 at 5:08 pm

If we are ever to restore our precious republic and regain our freedom widespread acts of defiance like this are essential. We owe it to our forefathers as well as to our posterity. I hope they shut down the business rather than comply.
We must show these thugs that they are not, and never will be, our rulers.
Liberalism is more than a mental disorder. It’s a religious cult with government as its god. They call it a “civil religion”. I call it evil.
Drew the Infidel says:

December 29, 2012 at 5:33 pm

Think Progress states Hobby Lobby “may well pay more to avoid covering contraception than they would simply providing access”. The insinuation here is their moral stance can be bought off. It is a scary proposition that well less than 1% of the US population centered in DC orders the other 300 million of us around in relation to how to conduct our lives concerning our light bulbs, commodes, and now our health care and religious practices.
Hillary Clinton Found and Weekend Links! says:

December 29, 2012 at 6:31 pm

[…] at Sister Toldjah is blogging about “Liberal reax to Hobby Lobby defiance shows disturbing “Govt is God” […]
LD Jackson says:

December 29, 2012 at 8:49 pm

Under no circumstances should Hobby Lobby be forced to pay for Plan B, or any other type of abortion coverage. It violates their religious freedom, which is clearly unconstitutional. I think it is a real possibility that Hobby Lobby will shut its doors over this mandate and I wouldn’t blame them if they did.

I am continually amazed at how the liberals who are so in favor of Obamacare and its mandates simply do not get the concept of religious freedom. Unless, of course, it suits their own purposes.
OldTexan says:

December 29, 2012 at 8:54 pm

I have known the owners of Hobby Lobby for over 40 years and I worked with them for 12 years back in the 70’s and early 80’s. The faith of the Green family has never wavered, no even once. David Green the CEO was raised in a preacher’s family and he has worked hard and smart all of his life and put his money and his time into Christian activities. This stand might cost them the company and it might put 13,000 people out of good paying decent jobs but the Green family can no support abortion and they are not the only people who think life begins when a living sperm cell in planted in an egg.

I am very saddened that two morning after pills are seen by the government as so essential to the benefit of the insured they would rather see them, the employees, out of work than have them do without pills they could purchase on their own if that is their wish. The Green family members feel strongly that it is against God’s will that they take this stand and having know the Older members approx. 70 years old and the younger ones in their 40’s and 50’s from the time they were small children I can say that, for them, this is not a hard decision to make rather, it is the only one they can make. There are three generations of family members working together and they will always put the Lord first and live with the results.

This Christian persecution and derision has been coming for a long time and the Green family appears to be a Canary in the mine shaft so hang of folks, I am afraid there is a lot more to come as our government by the elite tries to take care of us plain folk.
Sorta Blogless Sunday Pinup » Pirate's Cove says:

December 30, 2012 at 9:58 am

[…] Sister Toldjah highlights the lefty reaction to the Hobby Lobby decision […]
Tex says:

December 30, 2012 at 1:17 pm

Every day I become even more astonished at the increasingly rabid persecution being directed by Liberals toward Christians. It is nearly approaching the fanatical persecution practiced by the NAZI’s toward Jews in the early 1930s at the beginning of their rise to power.

I don’t consider myself to be a Christian although I do have my own beliefs in God which may differ than that accepted more widely by true Christians. However, I have great respect for traditional Christians and believe they have the right to practice their beliefs without fear of persecution. My own daughter is a traditional Christian and I’m proud of her for that.

It’s a very sad day indeed in the nation’s history that a good family, such as the Green family, who run a good business that treats their employees well and provides many needed jobs in this country, is vilified and punished for practicing their faith.
Zachriel says:

December 30, 2012 at 2:02 pm

No law can withstand someone saying it’s their religion. It’s against their religion to pay taxes. It’s against their religion to drive slow. It’s against their religion to serve blacks at their store. It’s against their religion to provide comprehensive health care that includes contraception. As long as the law is neutral and generally applicable, then it’s Constitutional (see Employment Division v. Smith).
Polly says:

December 30, 2012 at 4:47 pm

Justice Sotomayor. An oxymoron if there ever was one.
Drew the Infidel says:

December 30, 2012 at 8:04 pm

@Zachariel–You’re groping, again.
Carlos says:

December 30, 2012 at 9:24 pm

@Zachriel: Since when did “contraception” become “abortifacient?”

I am fascinated by the straw man argument people like you are using, and even more so that seemingly logical people are getting sucked in by it.
Steve Skubinna says:

December 31, 2012 at 4:57 am

It’s their own fault for being Christians. They want respect and deference for their religious views, then they convert to Islam. Otherwise, into the camps with them.

Heck, they go Muslim and make enough noise about people they don’t like, this administration’s likely to arrest their critics.
Zachriel says:

December 31, 2012 at 7:17 am

Drew the Infidel: You’re groping, again.

We cited Antonin Scalia’s majority opinion in Employment Division v. Smith. Religious objections have been raised against compulsory military service, payment of taxes, minimum wage, health and safety, child neglect, animal cruelty, vaccination, drug, environmental protection, provision for equality of opportunity for the races, and even traffic laws.

Simply claiming religious objections, as was argued above, is not sufficient to avoid the impact of a law.
Zachriel says:

December 31, 2012 at 7:17 am

Scalia explains:

”‘Can a man excuse his practices to the contrary because of his religious belief? To permit this would be to make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself.’

“Subsequent decisions have consistently held that the right of free exercise does not relieve an individual of the obligation to comply with a ‘valid and neutral law of general applicability on the ground that the law proscribes (or prescribes) conduct that his religion prescribes (or proscribes).’“
Zachriel says:

December 31, 2012 at 9:27 am

Moderation queue please.
Great White Rat says:

December 31, 2012 at 1:19 pm

Conscientious Objecter status based on religious grounds has been accepted for decades in the military. It seems to me that extending this exemption to providing abortifacients is an entirely reasonable extension.

Or is Zach going to whine and call for moderation of this thread because yet another person dares disagree with him?
Zachriel says:

December 31, 2012 at 3:22 pm

Great White Rat: Conscientious Objecter status based on religious grounds has been accepted for decades in the military. It seems to me that extending this exemption to providing abortifacients is an entirely reasonable extension.

Yes, it could be written into the law. In any case, only contraceptives are covered.
Zachriel says:

December 31, 2012 at 3:23 pm

OFF-TOPIC

Great White Rat: call for moderation of this thread

Huh? Our comment was a note to the moderator to check the queue where one of our comments had apparently become stuck.
OldTexan says:

December 31, 2012 at 4:25 pm

Zachriel, this is a rather simple situation. To the family that owns Hobby Lobby the morning pill causes an abortion to a fertilized egg. The family will not participate in what they believe an act against God’s will. They are not alone in this stand they are taking on this issue and the consequences of the government not recognizing their stance will probably result in the loss of a very viable business and 13,000 jobs.

Those are real consequences, not an abstract theory and it is not as if they are saying employees cannot avail themselves to this drug on their own or the they are against contraceptives. Now I tend to wonder why the government has drawn a line in the sand forcing people to provide abortions or lose their business and that makes no sense to me.

Also why are you upset that they are willing to take a stand and live with the consequences of their actions which they will. I wonder what causes consternation when other people practice their religion. Does it bother you for Jewish people to keep kosher and observe Saturday as the Sabbath?

If you have no horse in this race then leave us Christians alone as we cope with changes in our society and if you wish to engage in battle with us then come on out and make your case.

This family is dear to me and I worked with this company years ago when there were only five employees in the entire company. I spent 12 years with them and I know that they are committed brave Christians who will stay the race and go the distance no matter what the cost. Perhaps those who want to see them buckle under should rent a large stadium and round up some lions and entertain the masses of people since we seem to be playing out the final days of Rome.

Strong Christian faith can be intimidating when push comes to shove and this is one of those times. In my opinion the three generation family that owns Hobby Lobby will move through this ordeal with prayer and song and acceptance that the Lord is in charge and not mortal men. Yep it sounds kind of nuts but that’s the way this will play out.
Zachriel says:

December 31, 2012 at 8:35 pm

OldTexan: To the family that owns Hobby Lobby the morning pill causes an abortion to a fertilized egg.

Emergency contraceptives are designed to inhibit the release of eggs.

OldTexan: Now I tend to wonder why the government has drawn a line in the sand forcing people to provide abortions or lose their business and that makes no sense to me.

Because many people believe that medical insurance should cover contraception for those who desire it.

OldTexan: Also why are you upset that they are willing to take a stand and live with the consequences of their actions which they will. I wonder what causes consternation when other people practice their religion.

They’re not being required to use contraceptives. That’s a decision best left to people and their doctors. Any comprehensive health plan should cover contraception.
Zachriel says:

December 31, 2012 at 8:46 pm

Current science indicates that emergency contraception is ineffective after ovulation.

Novikova et al., Effectiveness of levonorgestrel emergency contraception given before or after ovulation–a pilot study, Contraception 2007.

Noé et al, Contraceptive efficacy of emergency contraception with levonorgestrel given before or after ovulation, Contraception 2011.
ST says:

December 31, 2012 at 8:54 pm

Zachriel, I have a day job and a life outside of this blog. I don’t spend every waking moment of my life waiting for comments to moderate the moment they come in. Have a little patience.
OldTexan says:

December 31, 2012 at 9:11 pm

The Hobby Lobby plan does cover contraceptives and they have not problem with that. The whole problem is with the two morning after pills which, as I understand it cause the lining of the uterus to slough off preventing a fertilized egg from attaching. Some, and I reiterate, some people see this as an abortion. Some pharmacists will not fill prescriptions for this drug and ask other pharmacists to do that. i don’t have to say whether this is abortion or not however there are some religious groups who have the opinion that this is in fact and abortion.

And that is the rub, this has to do with the practice of religion and following their religious conscious. This a back against the wall situation that will start to play out and neither you nor I have to agree about the facts since this is a faith thing which comes down to a personal decision of the family.
Zachriel says:

January 1, 2013 at 9:30 am

ST: Have a little patience.

Your moderation has been more than fair and responsive. Just thought you may have missed it, as the delay was longer than usual. Thank you for the opportunity to comment.
Zachriel says:

January 1, 2013 at 9:54 am

OldTexan: This a back against the wall situation that will start to play out and neither you nor I have to agree about the facts since this is a faith thing which comes down to a personal decision of the family.

The facts are the facts. Does emergency contraception cause the loss of a fertilized egg? According to the latest research, emergency contraception is ineffective after ovulation. That means it doesn’t cause the loss of a fertilized egg.

If emergency contraception caused the loss of a fertilized egg, then some might consider that immoral. Others consider all contraception to be immoral. The law should try to accommodate sincere religious objections, but laws can’t be beholden to any and all religious objections, as explained above.

”Can a man excuse his practices to the contrary because of his religious belief? To permit this would be to make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself.”

The American people have twice elected a president who supports comprehensive and universal health care. In the U.S. system, for historical reasons, most people have their insurance through their employers. Normally, it would be up to the individual to decide whether to avail themselves of the contraceptive benefit. The suggested alternative is to leave it up to the employer to decide on behalf of all their employees.

So we have a legitimate secular purpose on the one hand, and some who object on religious grounds. Compromise seems the reasonable course, but that’s not always possible with religious beliefs.
Carlos says:

January 1, 2013 at 11:59 am

“Compromise seems the reasonable course, but that’s not always possible with religious beliefs.”

And, after four years of having the Smartest-Man-in-the-World as president, it’s not always (or, in his case, ever) possible with ideological absolutes.
Tom the Redhunter says:

January 1, 2013 at 3:34 pm

Zachriel – er, no. No one who opposes contraception wants to make it illegal for everyone. Obama, on the other hand, insists on imposing his morals (such as they are) on everyone else.

Let’s be blunt; Obama deliberately picked a fight with the Catholic church so that he could show everyone who was boss. He did it to demonstrate raw power and to smack down anyone who dares to object.

And if he behaves in this way now, just wait for what’s to come! Now he won’t have to worry about reelection, and will do what he pleases. And the liberals thought W “shredded the Constitution!”

It’s pretty well insane that contraception is even covered in the first place (outside of a few narrow pure medical reasons), much less that it’s a mandate, but we live in an insane world where a spoiled brat from Georgetown can whine about the cost of birth control before the Congress, and she’s actually not laughed out of town.
Zachriel says:

January 1, 2013 at 4:16 pm

Tom the Redhunter: No one who opposes contraception wants to make it illegal for everyone.

That is much too broad a statement. Though a minority, some people would clearly make contraceptives illegal if they could.
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/01/03/396516/santorum-states-should-have-the-right-to-outlaw-birth-control/

Tom the Redhunter: Obama, on the other hand, insists on imposing his morals (such as they are) on everyone else.

No one has to use contraception, though nearly all women in the U.S. have used contraception at one time or another.

Tom the Redhunter: And if he behaves in this way now, just wait for what’s to come! Now he won’t have to worry about reelection, and will do what he pleases.

Obama will leave office when his term expires.

Tom the Redhunter: It’s pretty well insane that contraception is even covered in the first place …

Private insurance generally covers contraception. That’s because it’s important to health, and because it’s something most people want.
Carlos says:

January 2, 2013 at 2:24 am

“Private insurance generally covers contraception. That’s because it’s important to health, and because it’s something most people want.”

Actually, no, Zachriel. Insurance companies cover the cost of contraceptives because it’s a whole bunch cheaper than covering the cost of births. That’s also the reason many insurance policies cover abortion, too. If they weren’t making or saving a dime they wouldn’t touch either with a ten-foot pole, and would be fighting the “mandate” (more of a proclamation than a “mandate”) tooth and tong.

And if you truly believe they altruistically offer contraceptives “because it’s important to health,” then I feel sorry for you, like I’d feel sorry for a dog with three legs – you’re missing something.
Great White Rat says:

January 2, 2013 at 1:38 pm

Well, well…..it seems that Domino’s Pizza won an injunction against enforcing the contraception mandate.

The Federal District Court judge’s ruling states “Plaintiff has shown that abiding by the mandate will substantially burden his exercise of religion”. So the score is now 1-1.

Looks like this will have to go to a higher court before Zach and the rest of the totalitarians can exult over stomping their jackboots on free exercise of religion.
Zachriel says:

January 4, 2013 at 7:21 am

Apparently, the owner is against all contraception. What if he were against using drugs to treat disease?
Great White Rat says:

January 4, 2013 at 11:45 am

What if Zach ever had a relevant, defensible point to make?
ST says:

January 4, 2013 at 12:04 pm

“What if Zach ever had a relevant, defensible point to make?”

Hell would officially freeze over.

Comments are closed.