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56 Responses to "VIDEO: John Edwards appeases a 9-11 WTC building 7 Truther, promises to ‘look into’ what happened"

NC Cop says:

May 9, 2007 at 8:26 pm

Wow, that is impressive John!! After that can you look into what happened to Darth Vader? Personally, I think he was framed!!!
dk2 says:

May 9, 2007 at 9:28 pm

Edwards response was the polite and correct thing to do.

Get it a break, what did you want him to say, get lost?
Buzz off? Go Join the republicans?

Nothing Edwards would have said would have made you happy.
Severian says:

May 9, 2007 at 9:31 pm

Maybe if he’d show some common sense and a backbone and told the guy to go pound sand instead of legitimizing nonsense and paranoia, he’d have earned a modicum of respect. But then, what do you expect, he’s a liberal lawyer, he probably believes this stuff himself.

In other words, he could have acted like a responsible adult instead of pandering to the lunatic fringe.
NC Cop says:

May 9, 2007 at 9:34 pm

In other words, he could have acted like a responsible adult instead of pandering to the lunatic fringe.

Good Lord, Sev! The guy would have no base left if he didn’t pander to the lunatic fringe. Give him a break!
Common Sense Political Thought says:

May 9, 2007 at 9:51 pm

John Edwards wins Blu’s vote!

It seems that former Senator John Edwards (D-NC) has succumbed to the 911 Truthers, and has promised to look into it.
And here I thought he was actually a serious candidate.
Hat tip to Sister Toldjah!

…
Fight4TheRight says:

May 9, 2007 at 10:40 pm

dk2…you said, “Nothing Edwards would have said would have made you happy.”

Actually, if Edwards had said, “Sir, why don’t you go saddle up Rosie O’Donnell and just ride your way back out of here with that nonsense”….well, THAT would have made me happy!
John says:

May 9, 2007 at 10:40 pm

Hmmm, not sure about building 7 guys?
The issue – as with WTC 1 & 2 is that they came down at Free-Fall speeds.
Your highschool physics says (not me) that the gov’t story is a lie.
It is Physically Impossible for objects to fall through each other at free-fall speeds.
That is just a Reality of Life and the Physical Universe we live in.
Go and look up the math for yourself and check out the claim.
If you believe otherwise, then it is in Fact YOU who are living in some sort of fantasy world. PHYSICS says so. And unlike people, organisations and governments, Physiscs doesn’t lie.
Learn some Critical Thinking skills when you recieve information from ANY source (including me – go check what I am saying is correct)
Baklava says:

May 9, 2007 at 10:57 pm

John erroneously repeats assertions that just are not true by saying, “The issue – as with WTC 1 & 2 is that they came down at Free-Fall speeds.”

Wouldn’t you love it to be true !! But the assertion is far from true and John is irresponsible and negligent for repeating the erroneous assertion.

DK2 – If the guy had said, “look into the fact that the moon landing didn’t happen and it was staged”, I expect Edwards to say, “sir – that is laughable – and a false assertion”
Mwalimu Daudi says:

May 9, 2007 at 11:02 pm

John says: Your highschool physics says (not me) that the gov’t story is a lie.

As a long-time high school mathematics and physics teacher (with a masters degree in civil engineering), I can assure you that the claims put forth by the so-called Truthers are lies – pure and simple.

There is not one single tiny shred of credible scientific and engineering evidence of Truthers’ claims. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. End of debate.

Physics does not lie. But Truthers do. So go ahead and smear critics of Truthers if it helps you feel better about yourself – it won’t change the physics of the matter.
Baklava says:

May 9, 2007 at 11:06 pm

science concerning WT7

One can just say Popular Mechanics are in on it OR ONE CAN ADDRESS THE SCIENCE CONTAINED in the article.

Which tactic will you take irresponsible negligent leftists?
Great White Rat says:

May 9, 2007 at 11:16 pm

For John and the other conspiracy theorists, I have just two words: Popular Mechanics. So far, no one from the nut fringe has been able to put a dent in their rather exemplary research into the collapses.

In a similar vein, H&C had one of these crackpots on tonight. This one was so far gone that even Colmes wasn’t buying it. His final bit of lunacy was claiming there’s one than one bin Laden…a troupe of actors, I believe he said. One seriously disturbed individual. I’m sure someone’s got a video feed on the web somewhere already.

But here’s the worrisome part: these kooks are actually the mainstream of the Democrat party. Remember, only 2 in 5 Dems believes AQ took out the WTC, according to a recent poll.
Great White Rat says:

May 10, 2007 at 12:23 am

That didn’t take long. Hot Air already has the video of this loon, and I did hear it right: he thinks a troupe of CIA actors are stand-ins for bin Laden.

Michael Moore probably already has him lined up for a starring role in his next film….
Rovin says:

May 10, 2007 at 6:36 am

Seriously, we can only hope that eventually they keep the promise of aborting their young and they will eventually obfuscate themselves from the gene pool—— if that is prophetic enough.

We should also congratulate Edwards for alienating another percentage of his dwindling base, what ever that was.

Our government DID NOT murder 3000 people on 9/11. And any person that makes this claim puts themselves into a category that goes beyond lunacy. But they will blather on and poison other minds with mythology and fairy tales to fit their agenda. Follow the yellow brick road, if you care to. I’m sure emerald city is just around the corner. And when ya get there, you might wanna ask the wizard for what the scarecrow asked for.
Drewsmom says:

May 10, 2007 at 6:43 am

Mr. $400 haircut I identify with the poor people in our country could have simply DEFENDED his country and told the moonbat that the government he wants to head up
Drewsmom says:

May 10, 2007 at 6:46 am

sorry finger messed up, the country he wants to head up WOULD NOT DO THAT TO INNOCENT PEOPLE AND DOES NOT ATTACK ITSELF.
What a lowlife, pandering, rich arrogant a-hole the break girl is. He is low in the dem polls, wonder why?
Severian says:

May 10, 2007 at 8:23 am

Seriously, we can only hope that eventually they keep the promise of aborting their young and they will eventually obfuscate themselves from the gene pool—— if that is prophetic enough.

Now there’s a kind of self applied eugenics I could support…
John says:

May 10, 2007 at 9:02 am

WTC 7 came down in 6.7 secs (or close to it)
Both WTC 1&2 came down in about 9 secs.
These are times taken directly from the NIST repport itself.
These times, if you do the calculation, are what time it would take a bar of metal to hit the ground in Free-Fall.
It is impossible for a building, or any other physical objects, to go down at Free-Fall speeds.
DO The Math.
Especially those who claim tyo have some dsort of expertise – highschool teacher – you should be embarassed. As you said, physics doesnt lie.
Its why they gov’t story has to be one.

Popular Mechanics is a Hearst Publication – anyone hear even have a clue what that means?? I’ll let you research yourself.
In thier 1st article they discuss the golfer Payne and the time it took for fighters to reach his plane.
If you check what they say, and what was reported by the mainstream on the day (news archives) You find that Popular Mechanics is living up to its Hearst name and is Deliberately Misrepresenting the time it took for interception. This is but ONE example of thier propaganistic style.
Use some critical thinking skills and check thier other claims. They have in fact been ‘debunked’ several times. Shotty work.

As I said – check the facts from all sources.

SOmeone please show me the Physics where objects can pass through each other at Free-Fall and I will revisite the whole issue.
Untill then You ALL are In Denial – Physics Proves it.
Wake Up.

If you need some help understanding what governements are capable of, start investigating the CIA and thier actions around the world. They include overthrowing democratically ellected leaders and massacres of innocent civilians.

Don’t take my word for any of this — its all verifiable.

p.s. those who resort to ad homien attacks to get across thier points are only showing that they are scared and really don’t know — just Want to believe – but have no actual Facts – just the mainstream propaganda.
Severian says:

May 10, 2007 at 9:12 am

Ah, the true nutroots come out to play. Sell crazy somewhere else, we see enough it it daily in the ramblings of Murtha, Pelosi, and Reid. Sometimes, you run up against things that are just so inane and insane they are the results of a truly disturbed mind, and are not worth taking the time to “rebut” logically, as others, like Popular Mechanics and others, have already done a fine job of it, and the loons still ramble on, oblivious to facts or reality. Idiots like you will never be convinced, short of psychoactive drugs to control your dementia and improve your mental health, so why bother. Some of us, adults mainly, have better things to do.
John says:

May 10, 2007 at 9:34 am

You are just proving my point for me.
I have repeatedly asked this question, made this point on numerous boards & blogs.
The standard reply is as you are doing – attack the messanger and not the message.
Unable to actually refute the Facts and Evidence (free fall and physics) you turn to ad homein attacks – as the mainstream press has done.
I said Popular Mechanics was a Hearst Pulication – know what that is? Educate Yourself.
I also showed a clear example of them purposefully misrepresenting the facts in order to bolster the govt story – FACT.

Anyone have anything intelligent to say on this?
Name calling and put downs just say you have no real arguement – only a belief system.
Leslie says:

May 10, 2007 at 10:40 am

Heavens to Murgatroyd! Lesliepuss says: Calm down, people!

1. What was John Edwards supposed to do? Get into an argument with the moonbat? He handled it just right. The moonbats (most of whom probably have never even been to New York City) are just looking for confrontations, so they can spout their nonsense again. Why give them more pub?

2. Since it has been mentioned by one commenter that the Hearst Corporation owns Popular Mechanics magazine, I would just like to mention–what with the tourist season coming up–that the Corporation has within the past 18 months moved to a brilliant new skyscraper in midtown designed by architect Norman Foster.

http://www.hearst.com/tower/

So when you come to visit (and please do, NYC wants your money!), do please check it out. It’s really something to see

3. I for one wouldn’t be at all surprised if there were a troupe of Bin Laden impersonators. Especially since the original is probably dead anyhow.

OK I’m done. Exit Lesliepuss, stage left!
Robert P. says:

May 10, 2007 at 11:50 am

Let’s face it, Edwards admitted he had no idea what the hell that guy was talking about – he was being polite.

Do you really think if the guy had SAID, “Will you look into whether the Bush administration had something to do with 9/11?” he would have said that?

We forget that not everyone has to listen to these 9/11 quacks every couple of days, some people probably have NO IDEA that this cult exists.
NC Cop says:

May 10, 2007 at 2:00 pm

Anyone have anything intelligent to say on this?

Sure John, how about this? If the government was behind knocking down the twin towers, why or why, would they bother taking down Building 7? Exactly what purpose would it serve? I mean, by your theories, the govt. was responsible for the plane that flew into the WTC, the Pentagon, and the plane that crashed in Penn. If that’s the case, who were the real people who hijacked the planes? Where are the passengers from all the flights? What about the video of Osama and his lieutenants talking about how they planned and carried out the attacks?

If you believe that govt. was behind WTC 7 then you must believe ALL of the above. So please explain those points to me?
John says:

May 10, 2007 at 4:00 pm

I understand your comments, your rational.
Indeed – there is a whole Pandora’s Box of questions that come up.
Who?What?Where?Why?How? then right?
These are valid questions, and answerable.

They don’t however have anything to do with freefall.

Your logic is saying that if I can’t answer these ‘questions’ then the Free Fall is somehow justified?

You are answering my question with more questions – Not dealing with the Physics of Reality as I have mentioned.

The Physics of the Issue does not change, nor is it dependant upon any of those answers.
They are used to distract from the central point – Physics.
After the common ad homein attacks on the messenger this is the 2nd most common “tactic” used by those in denial.

Somehow you think there is a logical connection between those questions and the Speed of Gravity. Somehow those answers change the Physical Laws of the Universe or something?

You address my Physics of Freefall and I will answer any and all other questions you may have.

p.s. You are incorrct with your assumptions about ‘what all I have to believe’. This is just more bad rational that is used to keep yourself in denial… its also just regurgitation of the mainstream – think for yourself… you may actually figure out the answers without haveing to be Told.
forest hunter says:

May 10, 2007 at 5:09 pm

John in order to have the qualifications of being a messenger;

Rule #1- Have an actual message and btw, the sky is not falling.
Rule #2- Stay away from tommy and sharp objects.
Rule #3- Be aware of who your talking to. There a quite a few scientists and engineers who read and post on this site……even a Doctor or two, if you’re ready for those other drugs that Sev mentioned.
John says:

May 10, 2007 at 6:07 pm

Great – maybe they can respond intelligently to my question.

Maybe they can explain it to these people too:

100+ Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials

130+ Professors Question 9/11

100+ 9/11 Survivors and Family Members

70+ Entertainment and Media Professionals

http://patriotsquestion911.com/

I see you are still not dealing with the original question. Physicis of FreeFall.
Thats why there has been 130+ professors who have Gone Public – although the mainstream media is isn’t discussing any of That.

Still Waiting on the Physics of FeeFall.
Anyone?
Sister Toldjah says:

May 10, 2007 at 6:24 pm

John, you are about one post away from getting banned. So either get real, or get lost.
Severian says:

May 10, 2007 at 6:42 pm

Are you a physicist John? If not, what right do you have to comment? That’s the left’s mantra, the ultimate authority card…
Severian says:

May 10, 2007 at 6:45 pm

OTOH Sister, you’ve finally got a commenter that makes tommy look rational.
John says:

May 10, 2007 at 7:09 pm

Wow.
Almost banned uh? For my opinion.

Lets see.
All I have brought up is the Physics of the situation and some other 400+ professionslas that happen to have gone Public agreeing.

All you have offered in response is name calling and now threats.

OK. Think this kinda speaks for itself.

A
Vegas Art Guy says:

May 10, 2007 at 7:12 pm

OK that was the laugh I needed. How exactly would the government be able to handle an explosion like that and not have anyone notice? Do you know how complex an operation it is to have a building get demo’d safely? All the drilling and weakening of supports, the carefully placed explosives? All the wires that need to get run? Go watch the discovery channel for a bit John. And fire does melt steel or did the CIA blow that fuel truck up if the Bay Area just to cover their tracks?
Wake up and smell the John…
John says:

May 10, 2007 at 7:13 pm

As to the physics comment.

You are correct when you say this could be a call to higher authority.

Except that the Physics is highschool math. You don’t need to be a physic major to understand the laws of gravity or that objects cannot fall through each other at freefall speeds – the latter is common sense.
The math is Highschool. BUT I have shown that there are another 400+ professionals with greater minds than myself who have come to the same comclusions.
NC Cop says:

May 10, 2007 at 7:21 pm

You are answering my question with more questions – Not dealing with the Physics of Reality as I have mentioned.

Yes, John, because it is an all or nothing deal. You can’t believe in a ridiculous theory like yours and not believe in the rest of the conspiracy. So, since the many points I have brought up completely debunk the conspiracy theory, it stands to reason that your theory is also useless. That’s called logic.

I acknowledge that nothing anybody says or does will convince you, so why bother? There were several references that were linked to previous posts, but you summarily dismissed them because the did not say what you wanted to hear.

think for yourselfâ€¦ you may actually figure out the answers without haveing to be Told.

That means alot coming from someone who is quoting some “high school” physics argument that he got from a nutcase website.

I would recommend to you that you just think.
Vegas Art Guy says:

May 10, 2007 at 7:27 pm

You still need to have the explosives planted to have a controlled implosion and unless that building was vacant for the weeks leading up to 9/11 there is no way in hell that you could just plant some TNT and poof! Not to mention the permits needed, the necessity of emptying the building of furniture, eletrical systems, HVAC equipment, gas lines and the like. Sorry John, not buying it…
Severian says:

May 10, 2007 at 7:41 pm

I really don’t understand nutcases like you John. There are plenty of real, provable, dangerous and scary things to believe in and fight against, Islamic militants, Iranian nukes, underground nuclear smuggling rings, Democrats raising taxes and stifling the economy and ruining the lives and fortunes of millions, without inventing nutso conspiracy theories to worry about. Why is it that your ilk constantly ignore the real threats and concentrate on fantasy?

Do you even have the remotest understanding of “free fall?” Do you know what gravitational acceleration is in a 1 G field? How do you prove that the tower fell that fast? Do you know about pressure waves propagating downwards in materials at faster speeds than in air? Is there any physics you actually understand, or do you just bleat it out because some other nutso told you so?

I’ve had to try and educate some real idiots in my undergrad days, and I think you take the cake. Even the idiocy that came out of their mouths didn’t come close to this.
forest hunter says:

May 11, 2007 at 6:01 am

I have shown that there are another 400+ professionals with greater minds than myself who have come to the same comclusions.

What you have actually shown is that you’re a waste of bandwidth, IMO. No matter how many comclusions you have in your head, mastering nocturnal emissions is certainly not indicative of even having a grip John, which you clearly lack.

Go blow smoke up someone else’s skirt! The sane peeps here know the difference between truths and truthterds. You’re beginning to make a flipped out whack job, look reasonable. Being demanding and insistent as a spoiled child, might buy you some carbon credits somewhere but that joke and your hissy fit will pass. Hopefully, you have yet to graduate from high school, so maybe you’ll grow up someday and have an independent thought.
John says:

May 11, 2007 at 9:21 am

Serv:
Your logic is backwards at best. You have committed what is referred to as a Fallacy, several of them actually.
I suggest you explore what is known as Critical Thinking.
http://www.austhink.org/critical/index.htm

Your use of Fallacies and backward logic tells me you have had limited to no exposure of this discipline.
For what its worth to you, and I imagine by your attitude not much, both Logic and Critical Thinking were large components in my University education. FYI. I have been Professionally Instructed for a number of years in both.

I have briefly addressed this once â€“ either you are selectively reading what you want, or you just don’t understand.
If you take a water ice cube and place it in an environment above the freezing temperature of water (lets say warm) it will melt. This is a physical reality of the world we live in.
Its obvious to see that your questions w.r.t. 9/11 would have no affect on the melting of the ice.
Same is true for the physical realities of Free-Fall.

The answers, and even the questions themselves, do not affect or in any way change or influence the Laws of Gravity.

Understand that yet?

You are attempting to link them through bad rationalization to make your argument.

While all your questions COULD be said to follow given the implications of freefall, none of them HAVE TO and all of them have a variety of possible outcomes.
This is opposed to Physics and the widely accepted principals we have attributed to the world around us. Example: the speed of gravity. This has been qualified and widely accepted as an acceleration of 9.8m/s/s. http://www.physicsclassroom.com/Class/1DKin/U1L6c.html

IF you go through the NIST report and take the numbers They Provide and plug them in to the equations given in the above link, you see that all 3 buildings fell at free-fall speeds. Do I need to actually do this for you?

Here is another perspective through an explanation of the physics.
http://www.911blimp.net/prf_FreeFallPhysics.shtml

BY your reasoning, if I had taken a metal bar and dropped it off the roof at the same time the building started to collapse, both the bar falling through the air unimpeded and the building naturally falling in on itself would reach the ground at the same time. Does that even make any sense without having to go in to the math?
Head your own advice about Thinking.
John says:

May 11, 2007 at 9:40 am

Forest:
I’ve been nothing but polite.

The evidence I am discussing revolves around physics.
I suggest your opinion is severely clouded by denial. It certainly has no objectivity.

I’m sorry you are uncomfortable with or incapable of discussing issues that you don’t agree with. I suggest this is your issue not mine.

Personally, I enjoy an academic debate, discussion of opinions – and I find them more valuable when they are with people of various opinions.

My intent here is not to attack anyone, I’m just trying to discuss the issues, Factually as possible.
The degree of hostility in here is unbelievable.
Irony for that matter too.
Severian says:

May 11, 2007 at 2:53 pm

John, you still demonstrate dramatic misunderstandings, in that YOU cannot articulate exactly what you mean, but by damn you sure know it’s true! For your information, I am a physicist, with 30 years of physics and practical engineering experience, and your arguments are complete BS, if one can even be so charitable as to call them that. In reality, they are the ravings of a delusional mind on subjects you neither understand nor can explain. Where is your “proof” they fell faster than an object in free fall? Where is your understanding of propagation of shock waves in different materials? Where, actually, is your common sense?

Factually as possible eh, you have no idea of the meaning of the word. You’ve convinced yourself, based on someone else’s ramblings, that everyone in the world is lying to you, without any understanding of basic principles or science, and yet you feel the need to lecture your “betters” (and yes, I’ll say it and mean it) on the truth of science and conspiracies. You are, quite frankly, a nut looking for an excuse to believe the most elaborate, incompetent fairy tales and desperately try to cloak them in a mantle of “science.”

Life and engineering are frequently a lot more complex and interconnected than whatever you call basic “physics” would indicate. Rather than believe the work of rational, educated, and talented people who know and work in these fields, you instead choose to believe the most degenerate fantasies and choose to insult and berate those who know better with whatever excuse for pseudoscience you can dredge up.

Like I said before, sell crazy somewhere else, we see enough of it on a daily basis from Reid and Pelosi.
Severian says:

May 11, 2007 at 2:56 pm

Still waiting for that detailed explanation of the “realities” of “Free Fall” that you think so important you have to capitalize it John. Not a link, you take the time to explain it. If you can’t write it up so that even a poor ol’dumb physicist like me can grok, you don’t understand it, and if you don’t understand it, how in the world do you expect to use it as the foundation of a belief system? You’re exactly like the global warming nutcases, they have no idea of the science involved, but Al Gore told them it’s true, so it just must be! Gullible and stupid are no way to go thru life, get a grip.
Baklava says:

May 11, 2007 at 4:43 pm

John lied by saying, “WTC 7 came down in 6.7 secs (or close to it)
Both WTC 1&2 came down in about 9 secs.
These are times taken directly from the NIST repport itself.”

Wouldn’t you love it to be true. But it isn’t. Sorry.

John negligently asks, “I see you are still not dealing with the original question. Physicis of FreeFall.”

I did in my first post. Your assertions are UNTRUE. Please tell us which paragraph references these times and you will actually then not be negligent because you will find that the assertion is untrue.

Your argument unless you do the DUE DILIGENCE is in free fall.

Human beings who state things without due diligence struggle against confusion.
Vegas Art Guy says:

May 11, 2007 at 10:52 pm

And, you still have not answered my questions about how they brought the buildings down, prepped them without anyone knowing etc…
Sister Toldjah says:

May 11, 2007 at 10:54 pm

LOL, Vegas – didn’t you know the gummint kept explosives nearby just for that reason?
blubonnet says:

May 12, 2007 at 3:17 pm

Lots of laughing among the doubters, but no research.

There are people in the 911CommissionReport, that acknowledge the government cover-up.

There is the ex former CIA director.

There are physicists.

There are numerous former military intelligence officers.

There are engineers.

There are explosive experts.

There is a former NASA hot shot.

There are firement.

There are pilots.

There are numerous former administration officials within both Republican and Democrat presidencies, even one from this administration stating the factual observations.

There are documentries galore you can watch on the web, which are posted over at Dana’s. There is one site which lists statements, and videoed statements of some of the prominent people also on the site, which I can’t post here, because every time I do, it gets dropped into the spam box of each and every blog, I try to drop it into. Dana retrieves it for me, and posts it, not because he is one that fathoms this, but because he is an honorable host. If you are a curious individual (a sign of intelligence) do your own research, there is plenty out there if you are not too afraid to look, but, then, there are those too afraid to be willing to admit that the facts are plentiful on the side of government complicity.

Here are some worthwhile sources within this commentary stream at Dana’s: http://commonsensepoliticalthought.com/?p=1554
blubonnet says:

May 12, 2007 at 3:26 pm

You might want to jot down these numbers. It’ll save you time. Pen handy? Okay, the pertinent links over at Dana’s are on posts:
#3. #6. #7. #8. #42. #47. #49. #50.
Sister Toldjah says:

May 12, 2007 at 3:30 pm

Lots of laughing among the doubters, but no research.

That’s a lie. There are links in several comments in this thread that put to bed the myths about “blowing up WTC7” on 9-11, but people who have so little going on in their lives that they sit around brewing up conspiracy theories are too stupid to believe them and understand them.
blubonnet says:

May 12, 2007 at 3:52 pm

Well, Sister, after you’ve seen a documentary, or two, or the many highly credible individuals’ statements offered up in the Patriots Question 911 site, the link offered over at Dana’s, then your views have credibility. Otherwise they are just opinions.
Lorica says:

May 12, 2007 at 3:52 pm

Blubonet is delusional. Amazing how all these links at Dana’s Blog is stuff that he posted. And stupidly believes that YouTube is somehow a scientific disortation on the physics of colapsing structures. Nope, no one could of possibly changed those videos, or sped them up. As far as all those “witnesses”, I bet none of them had a leftist affilation prior to Gore losing the election in 2000 too. Like Joe “I was sent by the Vice President” Wilson was such a great and unbiased individual. It is the company you all keep, and the heros you all lift up that destroys your arguments now. – Lorica
blubonnet says:

May 12, 2007 at 3:57 pm

Wow, Lorica, you’re all over the map. Is changing the subject your objective?

Are you going to argue with Morgan Reynolds? He was in the Bush administration. That would be Bush 43. GWB. Why don’t you argue with the physicists, Lorica? I think you are too afraid to look. It scares the bejeezus out of you, to think that much.
Severian says:

May 12, 2007 at 6:47 pm

One of the defining characteristics of a psychotic is an inability to discern reality from paranoid delusion…hmmm.

I’ve dealt with lunatics like y’all before, back in the “we didn’t land on the moon!” days. Loved the “You can’t see the stars in the pictures!” Well duh, you sit there and explain to them the difference in brightness, how standard film has a range of 5 stops, what “stops” correspond to in terms of brightness, etc. After all that effort, what do you get? “Yeah, just what I thought, you have no answer, you can’t see the stars in the pictures!”

It’s exactly the same here, the idiotic lies and beliefs of these wackos have debunked time and time and time again. I love the one about how long it “really” takes to intercept an aircraft over the continental US based on an incident over a decade ago where they can’t even discern the difference between 22 minutes and 1 hour and 22 minutes because they can’t tell the difference between Eastern Standard Time and Central Standard Time. What a bunch of maroons! But of course, time zones are all a Bush led government plot!

They feed on their own flawed “research” done by themselves or other idiots with the same mental illness, spinning ever tighter and more convoluted wheels within wheels conspiracy theories, all completely based on nothing and a willful ignorance of the truth of the world and the facts. It’s an alluring fantasy I guess, in that like most psychotic delusions, it carries it’s own answer to reality in that reality is always labeled as part of the conspiracy so you don’t have to believe in it if it contradicts your delusions.
Severian says:

May 12, 2007 at 7:44 pm

Why don’t you argue the “physics” bluebonnet? Not just say “this important person says and you should believe them” which is the same mantra the global warming nutcases trot put with depressing regularity. Not point to another lunatic truther site, if it’s so obvious and blatant, you should be able to easily explain it so that even us dunces can understand. As I said before, if you cannot explain it, in sufficient detail to make it clear, that means no handwaving or such intellectual laziness, then you do not understand it, and if you don’t understand it, why are you basing an entire belief system on it?
NC Cop says:

May 12, 2007 at 8:47 pm

Ok, conspiracy nuts. Try these:

Link

This guy, does not particularly care for the Bush administration so you can’t use the “He’s a Bush lapdog” theory.

Link
Lorica says:

May 13, 2007 at 2:09 am

I am not going to argue the physics because, I am not a scientist. My comment is directed to you Blu. I don’t give a squat who works for the Bush administration, infact I work for the Bush adminstration. It doesn’t matter. What I am saying is quite simple, there are as many people who are saying it was the plane as who are saying it was an inside job. You are going to believe who you want, and I will believe who I want. To force us to watch YouTube videos that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt is silly. Also, Tenet was Clinton’s man, so if you are going to make an accusation, it probably should go toward Clinton. – Lorica
Tom Terrif says:

May 14, 2007 at 12:12 am

Troofers (9/11 truth activists) have been around for years. They’re having as much long term impact on the domestic body politic as “the moon landings were a hoax” crowd has had. The only difference is the internet. When the dim bulbs of the “moon hoax” and the various “ufo” and ‘holocaust was a fake” groups got started there was no internet, there weren’t even any cell phones.

Because of the internet you now have dozens of “9/11 was an inside job” web sites. They are all full of the same half truths, fabrications, misquotes, and outright lies that have been more than adequately debunked over the years by any number of reputable scientists, structural engineers, and forensic crime scene investigators, but the “truthers” don’t ever change. They simply state anyone who disagrees with them is “in on the government conspiracy” and go back to their “straw man” arguments, misinformation, and ad hominem attacks on everyone who disagrees with them. Nothing ever changes in their “prove nothing-accept nothing” world. And they keep bouncing back and forth on each others web sites like Scientologists at Top Cruise personal appearances.

Professional liberal pols like John Edwards are easy to set up by producers of youtube destined “9/11 truth” videos because, truth be told, the entire “troofer moofment” flies under the radar of the professional polling teams working for electoral candidates. Troofers will argue that something like 145% of voters polled agree Bush Almighty either knew of, or orchestrated the 9/11 attacks, but of course, they are citing their own “polls” and “calculations” when doing so.
Severian says:

May 14, 2007 at 10:42 am

Because of the internet you now have dozens of “9/11 was an inside job” web sites. They are all full of the same half truths, fabrications, misquotes, and outright lies that have been more than adequately debunked over the years by any number of reputable scientists, structural engineers, and forensic crime scene investigators, but the “truthers” don’t ever change. They simply state anyone who disagrees with them is “in on the government conspiracy” and go back to their “straw man” arguments, misinformation, and ad hominem attacks on everyone who disagrees with them. Nothing ever changes in their “prove nothing-accept nothing” world. And they keep bouncing back and forth on each others web sites like Scientologists at Top Cruise personal appearances.

This summarizes what I see as a very disturbing social trend over the past decade, the staggering rise in gullibility and almost religious fervor of a lot of people for their “beliefs” that fly in the face of all facts and reality. We see it in the “troofers.” We see it in the global warming alarmists, in the “Bush Lied/War for Oil” crowd of leftists, in almost everything the left stands for. Facts, reality, real world ramifications be damned, they don’t want to believe in reality but in their own demented version and the version that’s sold to them by their “leaders.” Anyone who points out the facts is part of a conspiracy or lying or evil. It’s like a perverse merger of village idiocy, the Inquisition, and Orwellian 1984ish “MiniTruth” for them. It’s also remarkably dangerous. You can have a free society when people disagree on things, how best to handle problems, but when a very large number of people opt to completely ignore reality and ignore the problems or misrepresent them and insist that what they want to believe is true is what the facts are, you can’t even have the beginning of a rational or fruitful debate with them. This is a trend as or more dangerous than the decay of societal morals we discussed in the Opie and Anthony thread, morals are one thing, but rabid and obsessive anti-reality mindsets are even worse.

You see it in the entire Wilson/Niger thing. Wilson has lied thru his teeth, he’s apparently either a compulsive lier or he is so completely cynical and amoral he’ll say anything to accomplish his end. And even though the cooler heads, even among Senate Democrats, who sat in on his testimony and the CIA found that his trip to Niger supported the claim that Iraq was sniffing around trying to buy yellowcake, the meme that gets put out again and again is that he wasn’t lying, the Whitehouse was. This is made all the worse by cynical, power hungry politicians who encourage the use of falsehoods as truth, for sort term gain, ignoring the deadly long term effects of legitimizing this kind of lunacy and selective interpretation of facts. 23 reasons were put forth in the Authorization for military force in Iraq, 23, but the left and Dems insist to a willing and gullible audience, including their water carriers in the MSM, that it was ONLY WMD. The damage such people and organizations are doing to civilization is not trivial.
vegas art guy says:

May 14, 2007 at 11:42 am

Still no reply on how they managed to place all those explosives and weakened the building without anyone noticing…

ST-that was very funny… gumment…

However: I’d still like to know what proof the truthers have about how they set it up… I have some idea of the work it takes to demo a building. Heck we blow them up all the time here in Vegas so they’ve shown ad-naseum what it takes to implode a building, and then it does not always work as planned. The Hacienda did not totally implode and they had to bring in the wrecking ball to finish it off. (That’s where Mandalay Bay is now)

Again wake up and smell the
Lorica says:

May 14, 2007 at 1:19 pm

You can’t blame them all completely tho. There are times I still wonder why FDR had our Aircraft Carriers moved out of Pearl Harbor on the 5th of December. Did he know that the real target of the Japanese were not the Battleships, but the Aircraft Carrier. When the Carriers weren’t there, the Japanese pilots took it out on our Battleships. This is why Battleship row was so devastated. FDR knew we couldn’t win without the Carriers. It all adds up, but I don’t believe it.

Then there is the thought that LBJ had a hand in JFK’s assasination, in order to get us into Vietnam. Johnson had thousands of shares of Bell Helicoptor stock. He knew that helicoptors would be used in SE Asia. He was a very wealthy man after Vietnam, well he was a pretty wealthy man before it too.

So I can understand what the 9/11 truthers think, the problem is, as Sev says, the reality of 9/11 just doesn’t add up to what they believe. – Lorica

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