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26 Responses to "Politicizing the Minnesota bridge collapse (MORE: THE FAULT OF BOTH BUSH PRESIDENTS)?"

Great White Rat says:

August 2, 2007 at 4:13 pm

Some personal favorites from the Kossack thread linked above:

Blame it on the WOT:

It’s certain now that we can’t leave Iraq…Just wait for King George to claim that this will be a daily occurance here if we were to “cut and run” for the “mission” “over there”.

Or just blame it on Bush:

I can’t help thinking that the Bush tax cuts and corruption has contributed to this. Our country is falling apart, but Bush doesn’t care as long as he cronies get to make money.

because you know, not only would Christopher Reeve be break-dancing if Dems held the White House, but bridges never collapse either:

I do not remember these horrendous accidents happening on Clinton’s watch.

Or blame it on being undertaxed:

In the 1950’s when America taxed the rich, we were building bridges… through mountains. Now our corrupt country can’t even afford to maintain them.

This country has become an ATM machine for the superrich…Time to break out the guillotine and separate some rich bastards from their wallets.

These infrastructural failures are 100% owned by the “small government” psychos…They got what they wanted. And now people are dead. Including Katrina, thousands of American women and children….

Time to hold Republican policy to account for the blood on its hands.

What upset this genius most of all was that the non-stop coverage pre-empted the Olbermaniac:

But why does this have to erase all other news off the face of the earth? Why does it have to become a SOAP OPERA that preempts KO? Why? Is this helping somehow?

God forbid we should have to dissect Donald Rumsfeld’s testimony about the propagandizing of Tillman’s death on the evening news.

The tin-foil hats are out in force:

I hate this that the thought that crosses my mind is “will they blame this on terrorists and use it to attack Iran?” “Is it a setup?”

Fox had the story and great pictures before the others had anything on it. If this was not a horrible incident, I would have been suspicious just because it was Fox.

One of them even took the time out to remind the commenters why the web site exists, and please use this tragedy accordingly:

dKos is for electing Democrats and only for electing Democrats. Writing about bridge collapses is practically akin to writing about third party candidates.

In the future, to keep them off their backs you may want to tie the bridge collapse into how corrupt Minnesota Republicans are or how the collapse may affect the upcoming race for Senate in MN.

These people are off-the-charts insane.
Ryan says:

August 2, 2007 at 4:47 pm

This just doesn’t surprise me anymore.

It’s Bush’s fault. The rich aren’t taxed enough. Blah, blah, blah.
Baklava says:

August 2, 2007 at 5:04 pm

Nevermind the fact that spending on highways and infrastructure is more per year during Bush than the Clinton years.

Facts are irrelevant…. Let’s all blame Pawlenty or Bush or conservatives !
Great White Rat says:

August 2, 2007 at 6:34 pm

Here’s a flashback to the 1940 collapse of the Tacoma Narrows bridge.

Wait a minute…1940? Couldn’t be, ST. There was a Democrat in the White House in 1940, so no bridges could have collapsed. You must have meant…1984, or 2004, right??

(/sarcasm)
vegas art guy says:

August 2, 2007 at 6:36 pm

Damn,
THAT didn’t take long did it? Even if the over/under was 24 hours it’d still be the under. Next time the over/under will be 18 hours for blaming Bush.
Great White Rat says:

August 2, 2007 at 6:47 pm

Vegas, I’ll take the under. If I wire you the money, can you get to the casinos there and put the bet down for me?? :d
Leslie says:

August 2, 2007 at 6:53 pm

There are still ca. 20 people unaccounted for, and these vipers are hissing already.

How sad.

8-|
Baklava says:

August 2, 2007 at 6:55 pm

ST, Check this out:

History of the Highway Trust Fund’s Revenues and Spending
Many changes have been made to the highway program, to the taxes dedicated to the Highway Trust Fund, and to trust fund operations since 1983. One of the most significant changes occurred in the Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997, which increased amounts deposited into the trust fund by 4.3 cents per gallon of gasoline sold, in addition to the 14.0 cents per gallon previously allocated to the fund.1 Spending started increasing rapidly in 1999, resulting from changes enacted in the Transportation Equity Act for the 21st Century (TEA-21). TEA-21, which provided contract authority of $218 billion over the 1998â€“2003 period (an average of $36.3 billion per year), and SAFETEA-LU, which provided contract authority of $286
billion (an average of $57.2 billion per year) over the 2005â€“2009 period, represented significant increases in spending over previous authorizations.

That is from page 3 of this CBO document titled “Status of the Highway Trust Fund: 2007”

On top of that state spending for infrastructure has increased over the years.

Lying about infrastructure spending does not make a good leader. Patty Murray and Harry Reid are liars and not leaders….. I’ll say that as blunt as it needs to be said. They should be censured for lying on the floor of the Senate.
Sister Toldjah says:

August 2, 2007 at 7:00 pm

Good find, Bak.
NC Cop says:

August 2, 2007 at 7:28 pm

Patty Murray and Harry Reid are liars and not leaders

That’s like saying water is wet!!!:d

Funny how after explosions or attacks everyone screams “Don’t blame the muslims until we have proof!!”, yet it doesn’t stop them from blaming something like this on the Pres. before we have even buried the dead.

Absolutely disgraceful.
Norma says:

August 2, 2007 at 7:34 pm

Well now that Dems are in charge of Congress, maybe they should do something other than investigate Bush’s staff and AG and appropriate some money. This blame Bush thing is so pathetic. It also doesn’t say much about their respect for other government workers if they don’t approve of the way they’re handling bridge repair.
Severian says:

August 2, 2007 at 8:08 pm

Here’s a flashback to the 1940 collapse of the Tacoma Narrows bridge.

That film was required viewing when I was an undergrad studying physics when we were going over harmonic oscillation. A more perfect example of resonance is hard to find.
Baklava says:

August 2, 2007 at 8:30 pm

Norma wrote without factual basis, “Well now that Dems are in charge of Congress, maybe they should do something other than investigate Bush’s staff and AG and appropriate some money. ”

See comment 8 Norma. As always, appropriations isn’t the issue. It isn’t with education, veterans benefits, the environment, health, infrastructure, Medicare, or ANYTHING. All categories of spending have gone up EVERY year for over 6 decades.

Knowing facts is what turned me from liberalism to conservatism in 1991. Ignorance is expensive. And it costs everyone else around us as well. It’s negligence continued….
Sister Toldjah says:

August 2, 2007 at 8:33 pm

Bak, I’d go back and re-read Norma’s comment if I were you. She’s on our side, amigo 🙂
forest hunter says:

August 2, 2007 at 8:34 pm

Wasn’t it nicknamed *Galloping Gurdy*, Sev? Seems I remember seeing in one of the films a guy making his way off having abandoned his old *T*, just parked where he said whoa!
Sister Toldjah says:

August 2, 2007 at 8:36 pm

In layman’s terms, what exactly caused the Tacoma Narrows bridge to collapse?
Baklava says:

August 2, 2007 at 8:43 pm

Sorry.
Sister Toldjah says:

August 2, 2007 at 8:46 pm

s’ok, Bak – this continued liberal politicizing of tragedies has got everyone’s nerves frayed, including mine …
sanity says:

August 2, 2007 at 9:04 pm

Oh c’mon….you mean they aren’t saying that the Bush administration blew up the ~~twin towers~~, ~~New Orleans Levees~~, Minnesota bridge?
forest hunter says:

August 2, 2007 at 9:07 pm

Guess I should’ve check the update, seems I remembered a different car but that’s the guy rescuing the dog that I recall! Define bravery and stupidity…oh that thin, thin line!
Severian says:

August 2, 2007 at 9:27 pm

Galloping Gertie, that sounds familiar.

What happened on Tacoma Narrows is that the bridge was not designed properly for the wind loading. A good summary is from Wikipedia:

Shortly after construction finished at the end of June (opened to traffic on July 1, 1940), it was discovered that the bridge would sway and buckle dangerously in relatively mild windy conditions for the area. This resonance was longitudinal, meaning the bridge buckled along its length, with the roadbed alternately raised and depressed in certain locations — one half of the central span would rise while the other lowered. Drivers would see cars approaching from the other direction disappear into valleys which were dynamically appearing and disappearing. From this behavior the bridge gained the nickname “Galloping Gertie” from a local humorist. However, the mass of the bridge was considered sufficient to keep it structurally sound.

The failure of the bridge occurred when a never-before-seen twisting mode occurred, from winds at a mild 40MPH. This is called a torsional, rather than longitudinal, mode (see also torque) whereby when the left side of the roadway went down, the right side would rise, and vice-versa, with the centerline of the road remaining still. Specifically, it was the second torsional mode, in which the midpoint of the bridge remained motionless while the two halves of the bridge twisted in opposite directions. A physics professor proved this point by walking along the center line, unaffected by the flapping of the roadway rising and falling to each side. This vibration was due to aeroelastic flutter. Flutter occurs when a torsional disturbance in the structure increases the angle of attack of the bridge (that is, the angle between the wind and the bridge). The structure responds by twisting further. Eventually, the angle of attack increases to the point of stall, and the bridge begins to twist in the opposite direction. In the case of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, this mode was negatively damped (or had positive feedback), meaning it increased in amplitude with each cycle because the wind pumped in more energy than the flexing of the structure dissipated. Eventually, the amplitude of the motion increased beyond the strength of a vital part, in this case the suspender cables. Once several cables failed, the weight of the deck transferred to the adjacent cables which broke in turn until almost all of the central deck fell into the water below the span.

The bridge’s spectacular self-destruction is often used as an object lesson in the necessity to consider both aerodynamics and resonance effects in civil and structural engineering. However the effect that caused the destruction of the bridge should not be confused with forced resonance (as from the periodic motion induced by a group of soldiers marching in step across a bridge).[9] In the case of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, there was no periodic disturbance. The wind was steady at 42 mph (67 km/h). The frequency of the destructive mode, 0.2 Hz, was neither a natural mode of the isolated structure nor the frequency of blunt-body vortex shedding of the bridge at that wind speed. The event can only be understood while considering the coupled aerodynamic and structural system which requires rigorous mathematical analysis to reveal all the degrees of freedom of the particular structure and the set of design loads imposed.

I remember the wind being 42 mph, whatever the bridge started oscillating in it, and the swings kept getting amplified to greater and greater displacements, like a car with bad shocks going over a bumpy road. It was used as a demonstration of damped, driven harmonic oscillation in class. Pretty good example, it sure stuck in everyone’s mind. The thing was obviously not designed properly for the wind loading over the sound.
Great White Rat says:

August 2, 2007 at 10:27 pm

Wasn’t it nicknamed *Galloping Gurdy*,

Yup. People likened the effect to being on a roller coaster…you’d be driving across it, and see cars in the other direction suddenly dip out of sight, and then reappear as the road rose up again.

In layman’s terms, what exactly caused the Tacoma Narrows bridge to collapse?

I’m putting this together from my undergrad physics work too, so if Sev can spot any inaccuracies, I’ll yield to his expertise…my field’s chemistry, not physics.

Two factors: lightweight materials in construction and a roadway design that didn’t let wind pass through.

Look at the first part of the video above, and pay attention to the road. There’s just one solid bed there – no trusses underneath it to break up the wind and let it pass through.

So let’s say you’re on the bridge, and facing in the direction of the roadway, and the wind is coming from your left – across the road, not in the same direction. Since there’s nothing in the lightweight roadway to break up the wind, it will lift the left side up – basically, you’re getting aerodynamic lift, the same thing that makes planes fly – and the bridge begins to twist. You see that clearly in the video.

But the bridge is still a solid mass, and eventually the strain and stiffness build up enough so it starts rotating back. But it can’t just simply stop when it gets back to level – it keeps going. This is where the left side dips down and the right side goes up.

And the strain builds up again, this time in the other direction, so once again the rotation changes direction and the left side goes up, but this time with more help from the wind, which increases the amount of twisting. This is what Sev’s referring to by harmonic resonance. Think of when you were on a swing as a kid. If every time you came back, you got another push, you got higher and higher. Same principle.

Eventually the strain from the twisting got to be too much for the span and it broke apart.

Before anyone thinks the design was faulty, this wasn’t known at the time. It’s why bridge designs now go through wind tunnel tests.

Class dismissed. This will not be on your final, but the moonbattery will 🙂
Sister Toldjah says:

August 2, 2007 at 10:47 pm

… ST, the geeky student :-b who always sat in the back of the classroom, reads and absorbs intently, and thanks Profs. GWR and Sev …
Steve Skubinna says:

August 3, 2007 at 1:22 pm

Actually, the Tacoma Narrows Bridge was being scale model tested in a wind tunnel when it collapsed. People were just starting to figure out there was a problem. Just a little bit too late.

But that isn’t important right now. What we all need to get to the bottom of is Bush, Cheney, and Rove’s dirty little figerprints on the collapse.
ruth says:

August 3, 2007 at 8:33 pm

Rush pointed out two facts today that I have checked on the Minn state website. One is that the state budget had a surplus of 2.2 BILLION in Nov 2006. The other concerned the building of a sports arena which turned out to be TWO arenas, one for the Twins and the other for the state university. One arena cost $522 mill and the other $248 mill, also approved in 2006. It is a matter of priorities for state expenditures, i.e. infrastructure or pleasure or whatever. That bridge would have collapsed Iraq war or not. Also, there were earmarks that Minn has gotten which have nothing to do with roads and bridges. I don’t mean to pick on Minn, because every state in the union has it’s own problems to be dealt with or not, and earmarks as well that mostly address greed. Just pointing out that media yaking mouths need to be questioned and pinned down to facts when they tie anything negative that they can get by with to President Bush
Baklava says:

August 4, 2007 at 1:41 am

First read post #8 in this thread.

Then see what this DU poster had to say.

This guy blames Reagan, Bush, Pawlenty and yes the VOTERS of Minnesota and America for voting in the GOP.

Here are some money quotes if you can’t read the whole thing:

Tim Pawlenty, GOPpie bushbuttkissing weasel that he is, certainly bears a share of the responsibility for the dead and injured

and

But Pawlenty isn’t by any means the only culprit or even the proximate cause of this disaster.

and

They include the first round of Kool-Aid brewers: the Reagan Misadministration. They include the Bush Crime Family and all of their cabal of cronies. And they include the voters of America and of Minnesota,

Please visit post #8 again. We have approximately doubled infrastructure spending per year on average over the last 8 years. I don’t know why this is getting on my nerves so much but there aren’t any leaders or media outlets REPORTING the facts about infrastructure spending.

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