Sister Toldjah!
1/30/2006 - 11:00 am

…. and gets the best of him. UNCoRRELATED has all the details. Here’s the full transcript of the show.

Memo to self: Start watching Wallace’s show more often.

(Hat tip: ST reader Fat Tone)

Posted By: Sister Toldjah in: Media Watch, Politics
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Comments

  1. WOW, GOOD WORK Chris and Mick! I’m thinking that lefty’s will be avoiding reading this stuff because it’ll turn their world view upside down.

    Then again, when Sister T had the charts that showed the amounts to Democrats and Republicans I remember lefties still coming here and claiming that no Crat (as Mick called them) took money from Abramoff. It’s as if listening is a trick thing :-@

    Comment by Baklava @ 1/30/2006 - 11:32 am

  2. Sorry to change topic, but in those transcripts, Howard Dean was presented with these words from General Hayden, “These are communications that we have reason to believe are Al Qaeda communications — a judgment made by American intelligence professionals, not folks like me or political appointees.(END VIDEO CLIP)”

    Then Wallace asked, “Governor, do you have any reason to believe that General Hayden isn’t telling the truth?

    To which Dean said, “I don’t know General Hayden in any way. But I can tell you that it’s been, again, widely reported that not only is the NSA, of course, listing to Al Qaeda, which is their job, but they tap into the main trunk lines

    SOOOO the cruz of Dean’s argument as to why it is illegal is because he doesn’t believe Hayden and does believe the “widely reported” accusations in the media.

    One thing I believe is that if the press are going to make false charges of criminal activity then they should be held accountable for making false criminal charges. Aren’t their laws against that?

    Comment by Baklava @ 1/30/2006 - 11:42 am

  3. Unfortunately, there is a common thread in these comments… the MSM advancing their agenda and distorting facts to do so. Whether Abramoff or the NSA, the media has decided the administration is wrong and they are right. Dean is able to dance around the facts by drawing from the MSM conclusions to buttress an otherwise illogical interpretation of events.

    Comment by omapian @ 1/30/2006 - 11:54 am

  4. Cool! I TiVo’d Fox News Sunday, but was planning to skip over Dean because I can’t stand to hear him babble. But watching him squirm… it might be worth watching :)

    Comment by blogagog @ 1/30/2006 - 11:57 am

  5. Abramoff is a creature of the Republicans, who worked a scam against the Indians to raise large dollars for Republicans. Delay, Ney, Kathleen Harris are all involved in this corruption. His scam worked like this: Abramoff hired Ralph Reed and funded him to try and close down Indian Casino’s. Abramoff would then go to tribe, who’s casino his friend Reed was trying to get shut down, and tell the Indians that for a fee he could stop Reed’s efforts. That’s extortion. Abramoff gave those big bucks to Delay and Ney to pay off other Congress members to vote in a certain way. That’s bribery. Greedy, corrupt Republicans. Peace

    Comment by steve @ 1/30/2006 - 12:14 pm

  6. As I said, “It’s as if listening is a trick thing”

    Lies don’t work no more lefty. You don’t control the media anymore.

    It’s either get on the bandwagon towards working with others to solve problems or continue name calling and accusing.

    I already know what you’ll choose :)>-

    Comment by Baklava @ 1/30/2006 - 12:29 pm

  7. steve, what about Harry Reid and Tom Harkin taking that same money and doing what was requested of them. Neither one are GOP. Are you just going to be a partisan hack?

    Comment by PCD @ 1/30/2006 - 12:39 pm

  8. Hmmmm …. then I’m supposing Steve that when Dean said, on several occassions, that “No Democrat got a single dime from Abramoff…”[sic] - you don’t find anything “evasive” in that statement. Particularly when it turns out the leader of the Dems, Senator Reid, not only got money from the tribes, but wrote a letter on their behalf asking for legislation they didn’t want to be blocked… ????

    - Reid said he doen’t intend to give back any of the money as all prominent Republicans, including the Pres., long since have. Maybe he thought that bluster would trump the smoking gun letter(s). Trying to paint this as a Republican only problem, has a snow ball chance in hell.

    - Bang **==

    Comment by Big Bang Hunter @ 1/30/2006 - 12:46 pm

  9. Baklava,

    The Abramoff scandal is fact. He confessed, plea bargained and plead guilty. It’s now a matter of public record. How far this corruption goes is unclear but from the sounds of the above broadcast it appears as if this type of corruption is rampant within both Republican and Democratic parties.
    We as Americans need to face the facts that our government is being run by crooks on the take. It appears given the photos, dinners and meetings(plural) at the White House that Abramoff did more than shake hands with the President. Whether the President is actually implicated officially is immaterial. What is clear is that heads are going to roll. Who’s head ……? I can only speculate. But it’s obvious that this culture of corruption will take a big hit in the coming months ahead. Will Washington ever not be corrupt…..keep dreaming.

    By the way. Good news for the President. Exxon/Mobile just smashed the profit record for any US company in history. I hope they have his check ready on time.

    Comment by GBA @ 1/30/2006 - 12:47 pm

  10. Be careful not to let preconceived conclusions interfere with an analysis of facts as they are made available.
    Back when the FBI conducted a law enforcement exercise and collected evidence with video tape, some involved in ABSCAM admitted to taking money. Others let their staff hold the bag. The defense offered they did not do anything for it. Courts treated this as entrapment. Congress was outraged and insisted that the FBI stop such investigations.
    Believe it or not, special interest groups lobby congress to advance their agenda. Congress is bombarded by more interest groups than they can possibly receive in person, and staff handle these lobbyists. If a lobby group wants clean water, and take a congressman out to lunch to present their case, is this to be considered misconduct?
    It would be much more productive to find out why a congress member from one state votes against the interests of that state in a matter involving another state.
    In the mean time, while conclusions are being formed based upon ambiguous and incomplete facts, give some consideration to ‘innocent until proven guilty.’ Those who expect the court to be the proper forum for political debate must realize the standard of proof is much greater than rumor, hearsay, and the provocation by the MSM.

    Comment by omapian @ 1/30/2006 - 12:53 pm

  11. Dean incriminated reid. Bottom Line.

    No democrat got money from Abramoff DIRECTLY..and that seems to vet true, as Abramoff is a registered Republican and would, thus donate to republican candidates. However, Dems taking money from Abramoff via the casino’s makes it ethically better ??

    I think not.

    Comment by Fat Tone @ 1/30/2006 - 1:26 pm

  12. GBA continues the listening challenged pattern. Sorry, I just had to point that out. BECAUSE….

    Please tell me GBA where I said the Abramoff scandal is NOT fact. You can’t because I didn’t.

    The fact that Abramoff is guilty and is a criminal does not change the fact that liberals are lying about the fact that money from the over 1 billion that Indians gave was spread around to Democrats and Democrats are CLAIMING otherwise. Did you read the transcript with Chris Wallace and Howard Dean?

    BTW, Good for Exxon Mobile. I hope that they as an American company always profit. And for environmentalist wackos who hope that gas prices stay high so that people use less gas and by more efficient cars, I hope they can be glad instead of attack. Same ol’ pattern different day.

    Comment by Baklava @ 1/30/2006 - 1:30 pm

  13. Fat Tone,

    Reid? or Reed?

    Very different people which one are you talking about?

    Comment by GBA @ 1/30/2006 - 1:33 pm

  14. GBA, from the transcript of Dean’s interview it was clear Dean was talking about Senate Minority Leader, Harry Reid.

    Maybe you ought to check your objectivity. It has not been very objective here.

    Comment by PCD @ 1/30/2006 - 1:38 pm

  15. Baklava,

    I watched the Gen. M. Hayden conference and the lenghthy Q&A afterword. And in that conference he plainly stated that on many occasions the NSA may have inadvertantly tapped some domestic to domestic comunincaes. What was interesting is what he stated was the policy for such occasions. He stated that after it was deemed a false lead. The information gathered from that monitoring session was discarded and was not subject to any type of oversight or documentation. What the big take home message from the conference is that Gen. M. Hayden and the NSA are not using FISA because it requires “probable cause” in order to get a warrant post de facto. And if the probable cause is not met, than there is responsibility and reprocussions for violating the US constitution.
    So instead they have lowered the standard to reasonable cause, again with little or no oversight at all as to the criteria of such, in order to protect NSA agents from going to jail for any mistakes that may occur. It’s not faster, it’s not more efficient. It just does not subject them to follow the law of the land. Instead they can make up their own rules as they go and as they see fit.

    So for the interviewer to ask a congressman sbout details of a secret domestic spying program that was not under congressional oversight as it should be under the FISA laws is at best unfair and totally loaded.

    But I did enjoy him jabbing Howard Dean about Abramoff.

    Comment by GBA @ 1/30/2006 - 1:58 pm

  16. PCD,
    I was not sure if he was referring to the clip or to steves tirade.

    Thanks for clearing that up for me.

    Maybe you ought to check your objectivity. It has not been very objective here.

    Comment by GBA @ 1/30/2006 - 2:01 pm

  17. Baklava,

    I hear you. We’re on the same page then except that I think that anyone who is guilty should pay the price for their actions. I don’t care what party affiliation they have or belong to. But it seems you really do.

    Comment by GBA @ 1/30/2006 - 2:04 pm

  18. Nope.

    Again with the incorrect accusation.

    Why do you “like” to make false charges. :)

    I put quotes around “like” because I can’t speak for what you like and you can’t speak to what I “care” about.

    I hope you hear my point for once and actually stop making false charges about me. Thanks.

    Comment by Baklava @ 1/30/2006 - 2:24 pm

  19. Baklava,

    My apologies if I went to far as to assume what you like or dislike. But that’s not what I said. I said it seems you do. It seems as if you believe, and I could be dead wrong here, that because both parties are unethical it’s ok to be unethical.

    Comment by GBA @ 1/30/2006 - 2:30 pm

  20. Nope.

    Thanks much for the return to civility. I appreciate it immensely.

    Comment by Baklava @ 1/30/2006 - 3:21 pm

  21. - Graft is graft, no matter which party disciples do it. To argue otherwise or claim either side would do that, shows the depth of polarization we’ve come too, where its not enough to put forth the facts in any issue, but now its more than fashionable to assign false accusations to your opponent and engage in adhominem attacks in order to bolster your case. This tactic certainly isn’t new, generally much more wide spread in the party out of power for obvious reasons, but certainly at an all time high.

    - The point thats missed here in all the back and forth bickering, the left hoping at last to get SOMETHING on Bush, and the right obligated to defend him and the Reps, is that this simply is not a partisan issue. Period.

    - This is a “business as usual” problem thats been practised by every admin. over the decades.

    - Whats more too the point is every generation of politico’s, Dem and Rep alike, somehow never quite get around to actually setting rules in stone that would totally eliminate it. thats the real scandal that all Americans should hold Congress as a group responsible for. Trying to use it for pure political gain, something both sides have engaged in repeatidly, is probably the chief reason it never gets fixed. As soon as the kerfuffle and noise dies down in the press, we pretty much go back to the same system. Something like the IRS/flat tax debate thats been talked to death for 40 years and somehow always gets forgotten in the long run when the politicians decide theres no more campaign gold to be mined from the electorate.

    - Bang **==

    Comment by Big Bang Hunter @ 1/30/2006 - 3:57 pm

  22. Damn! Bang

    Graft is graft.
    Faboulously put.

    Comment by GBA @ 1/30/2006 - 4:47 pm

  23. No Democrat delivered anything, This is the most honest satatement out of Dean:o

    Comment by Pam @ 1/30/2006 - 4:55 pm

  24. Said Steve-Abramoff is a creature of the Republicans, who worked a scam against the Indians to raise large dollars for Republicans.

    I just love how people assume the Indians had no idea what was going on here…:)>-

    Comment by Pam @ 1/30/2006 - 4:57 pm

  25. Pam, Unfortunately for Howard, Reid did deliver as Chris Wallace pinpointed later in the program :-b

    Comment by Baklava @ 1/30/2006 - 4:57 pm

  26. =)) ….I just love Howierd Dean.

    DEAN UNDER FIRE FROM PARTY DEMS; NEARLY ALL CASH SPENT
    Mon Jan 30 2006 10:52:31 ET
    Democratic leaders on Capitol Hill are privately bristling over Howard Dean’s management of the Democratic National Committee and have made those sentiments clear after new fundraising numbers showed he has spent nearly all the committee’s cash and has little left to support their efforts to gain seats this cycle, ROLL CALL reports.
    Congressional leaders were furious last week when they learned the DNC has just $5.5 million in the bank, compared to the Republican National Committee’s $34 million.
    Senate and House Minority Leaders Harry Reid (Nev.) and Nancy Pelosi (Calif.), along with the Senate and House campaign committee chairmen Charles Schumer (N.Y.) and Rahm Emanuel (Ill.), have made their concerns — directly or indirectly — known to Dean, claims the paper.
    Emanuel was particularly upset last week upon seeing the latest DNC numbers.
    “A lot of people are scratching their heads as to what’s going on,” said one senior Democratic aide.
    Another Democratic source familiar with the party fundraising apparatus said there is “obvious displeasure” among the leaders.

    CZ: Leaders? Being a democrat leader is like being the tallest midget!

    Comment by CZ @ 1/30/2006 - 5:11 pm

  27. CZ,

    You hit the nail on the head. Campaigns are not about policy or issues. It’s all about money. And the DNC won’t do well this year unless they find a way to make more money.

    Comment by GBA @ 1/30/2006 - 5:18 pm

  28. Its really awful how the republicans are turning these tribes into criminals. Its not like any money the tribes gave, or anyone that dealt with the tribes did anything wrong. The tribes are the victims, not the perps here.

    Its also not odd that these tribes would give to dems. They were heavy dem donors pre-abramoff. Once hiring abramoff, he steered the money away from dems and towards the GOP.

    Comment by andrew @ 1/30/2006 - 10:43 pm

  29. andrew, just how are the tribes being made criminals? The only ones who are criminals are the congresscritters who took “Pay for Play”. Harry Reid is one of the biggest in that regard. Why are you so silent on Reid????

    Comment by PCD @ 1/31/2006 - 8:17 am

  30. “andrew, just how are the tribes being made criminals”

    If people say their money is bad money, people are saying the tribes were doing bribery. Saying a congressman is doing pay to play is saying the tribe was doing it too.

    What was illegal was how abramoff was laundering the money, after it left the tribe’s hands.

    Comment by andrew @ 1/31/2006 - 9:43 am

  31. Andrew, the money went from the tribes directly to the campaign accounts. How did Abramoff launder it???

    andrew, your GOP hate ia causing you to make leaps that the facts do not support.

    Comment by PCD @ 1/31/2006 - 10:30 am

  32. Abramoff extorted money from the Indians using Ralph Reed and the Christian Coalition as the foil. He took that money and gave it to Delay, Ney, Katherine Harris and others, so that they would do certain things for him. In Katherine Harris’ case she was to steal the 2000 election in Florida. Republican are corrupt liars. Peace

    Comment by steve @ 1/31/2006 - 10:53 am

  33. Gee Steve, still upset that the Democrats weren’t able to steal the 2000 election by their antics in Florida? There is significant evidence of voter fraud in Palm Beach county, but it’s Democratic fraud. There’s ample evidence that Dems and their operatives tried to skew the results by tampering with the punch card ballots. The number of people who voted either a majority or straight Republican ticket, that then voted for both Gore and Bush, are way way higher than they should be based on prior election results. It’s an old Daley machine trick, shove a nail or pin down the Democratic hole, it will either make sure a Dem vote will be valid (no hanging chad) and if it’s a Republican vote, it causes an overvote, voiding that voter.

    Whenever Dems cry the loudest about voter fraud, it’s a sure sign that they tried it and weren’t successful, and are trying to muddy the waters to cover up their own guilt by accusing others.

    Comment by Severian @ 1/31/2006 - 11:05 am

  34. “Andrew, the money went from the tribes directly to the campaign accounts. How did Abramoff launder it???”

    He had some donations go to non-profits and charities, which he then used to give to congressmen or fund trips.

    “andrew, your GOP hate ia causing you to make leaps that the facts do not support.”

    Have you been following this since it broke a while ago? There are senate committees investigating this. The use of the charities is part of the investigation

    Comment by andrew @ 1/31/2006 - 11:13 am

  35. Andrew, Yes, and I see where Deomcrats have received some of the money, too. Too bad you are trying to lie and say this is a Republican only scandal. The public isn’t buying your lies andrew. The Democrats have been scamming money almost since the inception of their party. Everyone knows the Democrats are dirty when it comes to campaign money.

    Comment by PCD @ 1/31/2006 - 11:19 am

  36. Political Discussion Template for 2006

    (1) DEMS: Bush sucks, because …

    (2) GOPers: Here is a complete, factual refutation of what you just said. It proves you are wrong!

    (3) DEMS: Bush Sucks! P.S. We have no listening problem. Did I mention that Bush sucks?

    Comment by KK @ 1/31/2006 - 11:21 am

  37. “Andrew, Yes, and I see where Deomcrats have received some of the money, too. T”

    Money from the tribes or money from the laundering, or money that was used as bribes?

    If you argue that receiving indian money is all it takes to make you a criminal, you are arguing that indian tribes are criminal. These tribes used to be heavy dem donors before Abramoff came along. No reason why them continuing to give to democrats is improper.

    Comment by andrew @ 1/31/2006 - 2:24 pm

  38. Andrew, you have a reading comprehension problem. Try again or get a tutor.

    Comment by PCD @ 1/31/2006 - 2:27 pm

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