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41 Responses to “The Prez speaks on immigration”

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1. JT says:

   May 16, 2006 at 2:04 am

   New World Order:

   1- White population drops to about 50% by 2060

   2- Hispanic population will be largest ethnic minority by 2020 (if not already).
   3- 200 million plus new immigrants by 2025 (Guest Workers, mostly from Mexico).

   Can you say ‘Hail to El Presidente’? Can you sing ‘Nuestro Himno’? No? I’ll bet your grandchildren (or their children) will. Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.

   Remember these things during the next few elections (2006 and 2008), it’s not too late to do something about it now.

   First 2 items are from the Census Bureau, last one is from a senator (I forget which one).
2. forest hunter says:

   May 16, 2006 at 3:07 am

   Until we are talking about immigration as opposed to illegal alien invasions………..what can be said?
3. PCD says:

   May 16, 2006 at 7:56 am

   W doesn’t get it. He’s offering amnesty, but thinks the people don’t see it.

   If you can’t deport all the illegals, start with the ones covering their faces and marching in the streets.
4. Jim M says:

   May 16, 2006 at 8:12 am

   This is like fixing a broken leg with a band-aid.
5. stackja1945 says:

   May 16, 2006 at 9:08 am

   Regarding the President’s speech, better slow and steady then rush and regret. To pacify critics it would seem a fleet of aircraft is needed to continuously patrol the borders and shoot any suspected illegals apologise if a mistake is made, and keep killing the illegals and keep apologising until they stop coming.
6. Don Singleton says:

   May 16, 2006 at 9:26 am

   I was afraid it was going to be much worse. I would have preferred it if he had gone with something more like my plan, and if the fence had been for the entire border, and if the military committment was more than just for a short period, but at least he did endorse a fence and said he would put 6000 National Guard on the border for a while.
7. Baklava says:

   May 16, 2006 at 10:26 am

   I do believe we need to take what we can get.

   Bush did talk about ending the catch and release that Michelle Malkin has been talking about for so long.

   We can push for more… or the Congress can step up to the plate and pass what Bush called for so Bush can sign it. Or Congress can do a little more than Bush called for and see if Bush does his first veto.

   I think there is more than just one person that has to work on the problem and Bush has come a long way towards fixing the problem versus doing nothing.

   I welcome it.
8. Cump says:

   May 16, 2006 at 10:44 am

   What people have to understand is that Bush has always been something of an open borders advocate; see Elisabeth Bumiller’s commentary in the New York Times, “Behind Bush’s Address Lies a Deep History.

   If that is understood, then one can understand that the President has absolutely no intention of halting illegal immigration. He supports illegal immigration and, as a corollary, open borders. He will drag his feet at every step, and do the absolute minimum he has to do on the subject of controlling the borders.
9. Big Bang Hunter says:

   May 16, 2006 at 11:23 am

   - Just another bone to the electorate, while ducking the issue once again.

   - The Republicans are playing the smoke and mirrors game, while the Donkeys are hiding under their Congressional desks.

   - By the time this becomes a full blown “emergency” there will be 40 million Illegals cramed into the country. Disgusting, and it will be left to the border states to pick up the tab for all the “hidden” costs in public services, and schooling.

   - Billions for homeland defense with open borders. Lunacy.

   - Bang
10. Baklava says:

    May 16, 2006 at 12:24 pm

    Cump, You can judge a man by his words and actions but not what he supposedly intends or what he “will do” (drag feet). While I do agree that Bush hasn’t done enough and has said words that I disagree with he hasn’t advocated for “open borders” and he has increased funding for border security by 66% and the number of Border Patrol has increased from 9,000 to 12,000 and 6 million people have been apprehended and asked to leave (I’ll allow for that number to be disputed) and Bush did ask for the catch and release policy to be discontinued as well as other things.

    I am a hard liner on the illegal immigrant problem. I do not believe one of them should be in this country and if they are we should find out who they are and process them out. That doesn’t require lots and lots of buses. It requires that we START and once illegal immigrants see it started most will a) leave on their own and b) not come in the first place as they know they aren’t allowed anymore. We allow more legal immigrants than all other countries comibined and for the sake of budgets, fairness, the rule of law and national security and health and safety and the environment we can’t allow illegal immigration to continue.

    But, I as a hardliner on the issue am disheartened to see people make “false allegations”. It is a disease of American that I believe is mostly held by liberls but I see centrists, conservatives, libertarians and others use this tactic of negligent, lazy, false allegations and name calling. It doesn’t help the debate. It makes it worse.

    What Bush’s speech did was to get us from point A to B when we want Z. Bush cannot act alone. He isn’t dictator. This problem was inherited and has been long in coming for a solution by the CONGRESS. Congress is just as guilty for not acting on the problem. Liberals and their open borders rhetoric and talk of racism (which is disgusting) to me exhibits the mentality that has to be attacked and discredited.
11. PCD says:

    May 16, 2006 at 12:31 pm

    Bang,

    It isn’t just the border states, Iowa and Illinois have large populations of Illegals. Wisconsin passed a bill mandating that people show proof of citizenship or legal residence to get state and county benefits.

    Gov. Doyle is sitting and waffling about signing it. We wants the Illegals to vote Democrat when they get their amnesty and citizenship.
12. Big Bang Hunter says:

    May 16, 2006 at 1:09 pm

    Bak – We don’t really need to “predict” anything at this point. Those of us that have lived with this burgening mess for 40+ years have watched administration after administration sweep this ugly train wreck under the rug, while we had to bear the brunt of the direct costs on a state level in terms of state bonds at high interest rates for generations too come just to keep from going bankrupt, covering all the hidden costs of escalating public services, expanding schools populations, and all the other myriad of payouts that are not reinbursed.

    - Yesterdays address just put more of the same rhetoric into the mix. Things we have been hearing for years. The exact same debate resulted in the “amnesty program” of 20 years ago, and now we have 18+ million more people that marginally contribute to the tax base, but drain resources. The game has always been to talk and talk and talk, but at the end of the day leave it to the border states to “manage” the mess.

    - We’re tired of it. We’re tired of stupid comments like Bush makes about “some want to deport 11 million people” etc etc. Its just specious CYA bs, ment to evade the real issues. Every time he says something like that its just an insult to the people that have already been injured by all of this Washington indigence.

    - We want the damn borders controlled. We don’t want to deport anyone. Its too late for that. We don’t want a 20 million problem to become a 50+ million problem while Washington sits around for 5 more years and jaw-jacks endlessly.

    - Bush knows it, every congressman in Washington knows it. Its a game thats been going on from day one. What was once a managable trickle has excalated into what amounts to a full blown immigration invasion. Thats what they’re trying so insidiously to hide from the American people.

    - And that doesn’t even go to the question of Security, which is even more of a 700 pound Gorilla. the Administration is downplaying it, which is just beyond belief. Billions for homeland defense, but we’re not “allowed” to control our own borders. Lunacy.

    - Everyone in Washington is so damn afraid of being non-PC, upsetting the sensibilities of the hard left and anti-American groups like the ACLU they’re just not listening to Americans that are sick of being called racist just because we want our government to do their job and protect our borders like they’re supposed too. We have no reason in this damn world to feel wrong about protecting our soveriengty. How much longer before we’re ashamed to be americans for fear of hurting some “identity” groups feelings. I heard an idiotic statement by a Congressman yesterday. He said: “the National guard is not supposed to guard the borders.”. Think about that for a minute. What the hell does he think the “guard” in “National” guard means. This is the sort of thinking you have going on in the heads of the people charged with our safety.

    - Its total insanity.

    - Bang
13. Mahwah says:

    May 16, 2006 at 1:34 pm

    The most telling reaction to the President’s speech last night is Presidente Vicente’s pronouncement today that President Bush has made a ’sovereign’ decision regarding the borders and that he will not interfere with the policy. What that really means is that Fox is giddy with glee at President Bush’s plan to do virtually nothing to stop the flow of Mexican ‘patriots’ across our southern borders, and secure in the knowledge that the billions of $$ from illegals living in the U.S. will continue to flow into his country.
14. Big Bang Hunter says:

    May 16, 2006 at 2:11 pm

    ‘will not interfere with “the” policy’

    - What policy would he be referring to? The daily controlling of America’s borders by the Mexican Consulate General perhaps?

    - The defense of our dountry seems to have become just empty words.

    - Bang
15. Cump says:

    May 16, 2006 at 2:12 pm

    Baklava, with all due respect, the President has never demonstrated an interest in keeping out illegal migrants. The link I provided simply gives an explanation of why that is so. You can deny that his lack of desire is secretly an indifference to whether the border exists or not…but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is probably a duck.

    Increasing the number of Border Patrol agents from 9000 to 12000 did nothing to decrease the flow of illegal border crossings…it might have, ten years ago, but today, it is a drop in the bucket if you are talking about a 2000 mile border. In fact, every proposal he has made was might have been a ‘good’ proposal, if it had been made ten years ago, but has no real meaning today.

    Your thought that, somehow, increased enforcement will deter anyone is simply wishful thinking. It is the sweet smell of money and jobs which is inducing our Southern invasion, and people will risk an awful lot for the kind of money offered here.
16. Big Bang Hunter says:

    May 16, 2006 at 2:22 pm

    - PCD – thats why this rediculous number of 11 million just makes my blood boil. Who the hell do they think they’re kidding.

    - Thats why I believe the administration, hell every politico in Washington and the state capitals will “talk” about a tamper-proof ID card, but somehow it will never get done. they don’t want the people to know the real number. As much as I abhore conspiracy theories, I really believe theres a silent agreement to deliberately lowball the numbers to keep peoples feelings in check.

    - They already know they have a gigantic problem, of their own making, on their hands. They are in full damage control. I don’t think it will work anymore.

    - One thing politicians of every generation never seem to learn. You can only insult peoples intelligence just so many times, go to the well just so often, before the dam breaks. I think the dam has broken finally on this issue, and BushCo and the Donkeys had better wake up.

    - The irony of all of this is that if the GOP gets body slammed in 2006 and 2008, it will have been because of their own stubborness, and not a thing the Dembulbs did for all their “get Bush” efforts.

    - Bang
17. Big Bang Hunter says:

    May 16, 2006 at 2:41 pm

    - FOX news is reporting that the Mexican government has threatened to take America to court if the National guard arrests illegal aliens that cross our borders.

    - Well its finally happening folks. The world thinks we’re too chicken to defend our country anymore. Thank you so much Dhimmycraps, for all your “patriotic” efforts.

    - Just unbelievable. If Bush doesn’t show some spine and respond to this, I’m going to get to the point where I don’t care if the Dems want to impeach him.

    - Bang
18. blogagog says:

    May 16, 2006 at 2:51 pm

    BBH, I was thinking the same thing! If Bush is not going to do his job, let’s let Cheney have a shot at it for a couple of years. Cheney always struck me as a man who would do what’s right, without politicking. I bet he’d have the guard on the border in force while ground was being broken on a nation-wide southern fence.

    6,000 national guards = 2 soldiers per mile of border, 8 hrs a day. Or soldier per 1.5 miles, 24 hrs a day. That’s not much of a deterrent in my book. I’m starting to feel like Bush doesn’t think this is important at all.
19. Scott Allan says:

    May 16, 2006 at 3:13 pm

    Immigration reform needs to happen in some fashion. If you oppose amnesty, what is your alternative? Deportation? If the deportation of 11 million people is the plan, I want to hear how that will be accomplished. I think it is universally accepted to be impossible. I don’t buy the fact that you can deport a few and the rest will run home scared. You will just drive them further underground. A life in the U.S. underground is far better than a life out in the open anywhere else. I thought assimilation was a conservative goal. Even if deportation could be accomplished, I’d like to hear how you will get that legislation passed. Like it or not some compromise has to be reached on an issue this divisive.

    On immigration, some conservatives are sounding alot like whiny liberals, complaining without offering realistic solutions. The President has offered a plan. As imperfect as it might be, find constructive ways to improve it. No matter what your opinion is of illegal aliens, the problem is not going away if we do nothing but complain. It looks like to get this solved that nobody is going to be completely satisfied.

    Whose fault is it that these people are illegal in the first place? Ours. We did nothing to secure our borders and made it practically impossible for Latin Americans to obtain legal entrance through work visas. We gave them hope and opportunity by offering them jobs, health care, and schools. Of course people are going to cross the border for that if they are starving. We have made our bed, now we have to lie in it. We need to take responsibility for what we have done to create this situation and fix it. If the problem is really that they broke the law and entered illegally, find a way to let them in legally. All the hardliners say they have no problem having them enter legally so make it possible. I keep hearing “The Rule of Law, The Rule of Law!” Well what if the law isn’t working out so well? You can’t have unenforceable laws and complain when they are uneffective.

    Of course there will always be quotas on legal immigration and something will have to be done to deter the ones that do not qualify for legal status from entering. For these people and others who need to be kept out because of terrorist worries, border security is the only solution. BOTH BORDERS, not just the Southern one or your motives should really be questioned. Terrorists are not coming here to feed their kids and won’t be deterred by taking away jobs, health care and schools.

    As we have said to the liberals before, we are the party of ideas. But the ideas have to be realistic, reasonable, and effective. It is easy to sit back and criticize.
20. Big Bang Hunter says:

    May 16, 2006 at 3:17 pm

    Scott – Spare me. I don’t know a single soul, right or left, that thinks deportation is realistic or even desirable. Thats just evasive nonsense. If you want to post something meaningful try to focus on the real problems.

    - Bang
21. Scott Allan says:

    May 16, 2006 at 3:25 pm

    I’m pretty sure I just said deportation was impossible.

    “I think it is universally accepted to be impossible.”
    I think you may have misread my comment. I believe I did concentrate on the real problems. We made it too easy and desirable to sneak in and now we have to deal with it. A combination of allowing legal entrance while removing the other incentives to come here illegally is the solution, not deportation.
22. PCD says:

    May 16, 2006 at 3:30 pm

    Bang,

    I do believe we have to deport the worst trouble makers. Every criminal, every one of those who marched behind masks should be gone immediately.

    I don’t know if you read up on this Aztlan crap or not, but the Mexicans really believe it. Some of the fools down there think we’ll put up with just handing over whatever land they settle their rear end on.

    This crap is also known as Reconquista. A number of CA Democrats are members of organizations that push this like MeCHa. Look at Cruz Bustmonte and the current Mayor of LA.
23. Big Bang Hunter says:

    May 16, 2006 at 3:31 pm

    - Well I’m not buying the “WE” business either. This idea that the citizens of the border states are somehow complicit in the indigence of Washington is just a lot of “pass the buck” hooey. What we’re guilty of is shouldering the tax load for all these years while the Washington block heads twiddled their thumbs, unwilling to deal with this mess. California was just forced to pass a 90 billiom dollar high interest bond that will go on for generations just to avoid bankruptsy.

    - Just a word. People that have been paying the price all these years just love to be accused of being the source of the problem. Sort of insult to injury. Nice.

    - Bang
24. Big Bang Hunter says:

    May 16, 2006 at 3:39 pm

    - PCD – While I think nut case extremist groups should always be kept track of, they generally die out after just so many years when they can’t attract new blood. I’m more worried about what I mentioned. That what is maybe a 20-24 million problem now becoames a 50 or 60 million problem 5 years from now if Washington continues to foot drag.

    Then you might actually find the Southwest embroiled in armed conflict, because without meaningful law enforcement, groups like you mentioned would grow and get out of hand.

    - Bang
25. Scott Allan says:

    May 16, 2006 at 3:54 pm

    This is a collective problem and we all share the blame, not just the border states. This has been decades of poor immigration policy. But times change and it’s time to get everyone on the same page. I think the majority agrees on the major points.

    1. Strong border security. Fencing, troops, whatever, just do something.
    2. Remove the legal issues. Grant some EARNED legal status to existing immigrants. Place incentives for assimilating into the culture such as English competency and civics classes. Pay a fine and go to the end of the queue. Does not have to be a track to citizenship but remove the criminality.
    3. **Bleeding hearts may have trouble with this one ** Remove the incentives to sneak in and stay here such as health care, automatic citizenship for children of illegals, and education. You want to sneak in, then you’re on your own.
    4. No more catch and release.
    5. Penalize employers who employ illegals once there is a legal alternative in place.

    Who can disagree with these things? From what I see, most of these issues are being addressed already.
26. blogagog says:

    May 16, 2006 at 4:07 pm

    The main thrust right now should not be on the millions of illegals in the country. It should be on stopping millions more from showing up. This is where Bush continues to let us all down. An Israeli style fence will go far in curbing new illegal immigration. More border agents will contribute much as well.

    Once true border security is in place, then we can worry about the people who are already here. There are many ways to go about solving this part of the problem. Their largest employers are well known (e.g. meat packaging, construction firms). Target them and fine them heavily. Without jobs, they might leave of their own accord. Then we could hit the streets of LA. Round up gang members. Send the illegals home. You can say that America doesn’t want to deport 11 million illegal immigrants. But it is a lie to say we can’t. This is America. We can do whatever we set out to do.

    By this time, we might find that we need a larger workpool. If so, increase legal immigration. But not just for businesses to underpay them. Doing that hurts regular americans and the legal immigrants themselves. Without a tight unskilled labor market, unskilled people will stay poor. As a Republican, I’m against our hard-working citizens being poor.

    Scott, “who’s to blame” is really not as important as “what can we do” at this point in time. Sure, we both seem to agree that the fault lies with the Democrats in California and Arizona offering free health-care, schools and public services to illegals, as well as lax control on businesses hiring them. But can’t we blame them later, when the issue is on the path to resolution? That is like wasting time finding out who’s fault Katrina was while people are still stranded in 9ft deep water.
27. Mahwah says:

    May 16, 2006 at 4:09 pm

    “Just unbelievable. If Bush doesn’t show some spine and respond to this, I’m going to get to the point where I don’t care if the Dems want to impeach him.” – BBH

    I gotta agree. After six years of supporting the man through thick and thin, it has come to an issue that I cannot compromise on. I have watched Bush pander to Fox over the last two years and he has seemingly bent over backwards to please the corrupt Mexican leader. I have clung to the belief that there is something bigger and better that he is working towards, but now that he has put his plan on the table, I’ve lost any illusion that he is listening to the American people, and that he will do the ‘right’ thing.

    I can’t help feeling that this is a betrayal of American citizens, the same way I feel the Minutemen are being betrayed by their country by having their locations relayed to the Mexican army by our Border Patrol.
28. Scott Allan says:

    May 16, 2006 at 4:11 pm

    I’m not really placing blame. It’s more that if you don’t understand what caused the problem, you can’t hope to fix it.
29. Baklava says:

    May 16, 2006 at 4:25 pm

    Bang said, “Bak – We don’t really need to “predict” anything at this point. Those of us that have lived with this burgening mess for 40+ years have watched administration after administration sweep this ugly train wreck under the rug, while we had to bear the brunt of the direct costs on a state level in terms of state bonds at high interest rates for generations too come just to keep from going bankrupt, covering all the hidden costs of escalating public services, expanding schools populations, and all the other myriad of payouts that are not reinbursed.”

    I’ve been saying the SAME thing. But last night the issue WAS addressed (not significantly enough) but OUR fight ahead is with those who think Bush’s proposals are too extreme. There was just a vote today on the tpic with 18 freaking Republicans not voting or voting against a proposal on illegal immigration. Guess who was among some of these politicians. Snowe, Dewine, Specter, etc. McCain and Lott didn’t vote. We have a battle and my point is we need to focus like a laser beam on who is really to blame. Congress is part of the mix. Administration after administration had to deal with Congress.

    Cump wrote, “Baklava, with all due respect, the President has never demonstrated an interest in keeping out illegal migrants.”

    I don’t believe your statement is technically accurate. I agree that he isn’t doing ENOUGH. If I were president I’d have the issue talked about every month and keep pounding on the issue for Congress to give me something to sign. Bush hasn’t done enough but your statement is inaccurate (I believe). The border patrol has been increased and spending on border security has increased 66%. That is demonstrating more than an interest. But not enough of one.

    Cump wrote, “Your thought that, somehow, increased enforcement will deter anyone is simply wishful thinking.”

    I tell liberals all the time that you don’t know what my thoughts are. Well… now I’m tellin you. You don’t know and you are inaccurate. Try to be accurate. I don’t think and have never stated that I think that increased enforcement will deter many people. I’m for the minutemen. I’m for the fence/wall. I’m for making illegal immigration a felony. I’m for our states not having to dish out any more money in social programs, etc. CA is burdened to the tune of more than 8 -10 billion dollars. Not to mention rising house prices. Even if illegal immigrants take the lowest cost places to rent that takes supply and demand is increased for shelter.

    Scott asked, “If the deportation of 11 million people is the plan, I want to hear how that will be accomplished.”

    You only have to start. It’s like asking how are we going to get all the millions of cars to have catalytic converters. You start. Except with this problem more than half of the problem would leave on their own accord if they don’t have jobs and aren’t able to get benefits and are considered a felon. You pose the question as most who do as it is a caravan of buses from Maine to Florida. That is a simple minded suggestion. (I’m not calling you simple minded).

    Scott said, “I thought assimilation was a conservative goal.”

    The goals is to KNOW who is here for national security concerns and get people operating within the law. There is CURRENTLY NO incentive for assimilation. My nieghbor who is latino has talked to others. His point is clear. They don’t want to be citizens. They want to reap the benefits of being here, send money back home, have an easier life. There are some (for clarity) who want citizenship. But we allow more legal immigrants than all other countries combined and they simply need to follow the law so that we know who is here.

    BTW, My issue isn’t deportation. I just wanted to refute what Scott was saying. Because NOBODY is saying that 11 million people have to be deported in a month or year. Nobody. We are simply talking about starting to address the problem. Now let’s get to it.
    And for clarity this isn’t a latino issue. Many Islamic militants have come across this border and we DON’T know who is here. We need to process in some fashion everyone who is here. That does NOT mean legalizing them. That should not happen until and unless the borders are secure. As we speak people are coming here because they hear talk of amnesty. This exacerbates the problem.
30. Baklava says:

    May 16, 2006 at 4:33 pm

    Scott said, “I’m not really placing blame. It’s more that if you don’t understand what caused the problem, you can’t hope to fix it.”

    Who is saying they don’t understand what caused the problem? I think everyone recognized a) inaction by Congress and many administrations b) 1986 amnesty giving others hope to fall in line for the next one c) inaction – yes I mentioned that but I’m mentioning it again.
31. Big Bang Hunter says:

    May 16, 2006 at 5:59 pm

    - Thats “the” tragedy of this entire mess Scott. the politico’s have been playing that “gee if we can just get a handle on the problem but its soooooo complex and hard” bs game for years.

    - Theres this “bunny rabbit” image they want to maintain with the world, of how “civil” and ambivolent we are so every one will looooove us. The Carter desease. So G_d forbid we actually move to secure the borders. That would make us look like such a ugly “Super power” and all. Wheres your guilt man. Get with the program.

    - Bang
32. Scott Allan says:

    May 16, 2006 at 6:42 pm

    There will always be an excuse to hate us. I’m not sure why we care so much. Nice guys finish last. But isn’t it curious how everyone makes an effort to live here despite how awful we all are?
33. Big Bang Hunter says:

    May 16, 2006 at 7:08 pm

    Bingo…. all you can say is bingo….Untold millions are willing to die trying to get to this “hell-hole”. Just ask the moonbat brigade.

    - Bang
34. Marshall Art says:

    May 17, 2006 at 1:25 am

    Lots of great comments on this issue. Some things I’ve heard elsewhere concern me. One is that some say this is a reason they won’t vote Republican next time around. I hope no one here feels that way. On the contrary, it should inspire, motivate, or just piss people off enough to pay closer attention to who’s running for office, and more importantly, who’s running in their own states and local elections. Most in Washington were in local politics first. Seek out more conservative candidates with bigger stones (metaphorically speaking).

    Another concern is this talk of betrayal. Jeez, it sounds like a bunch of AlGores. Seems to me Bush has always been soft on this issue and even touched on it during his first term. Perhaps some Texans can relate similar tales from his time as governor. So I don’t feel betrayed, just greatly disappointed that on this issue, he’s not in tune with what I’d like to see. Impeach? Don’t be silly.

    To the issue itself, count me among those who believe we can deport them. But we won’t have to deport them all. As one person said, we know which industries are big on hiring illegals. Focus on those. What ever happened to INS raids? Get ‘em goin’ agin! Hit these industries and arrest the illegals. Impound their vehicles and perhaps other property. Heavily fine the offending companies. A painful first offense fine that really sends a message and a far greater penalty for second offense that is harsh enough to deter a third. The huge fines and money from auctioning impounded vehicles and such would finance the operation or the building of the wall or fence. Families can figure out for themselves what to do with the children they purposely had while in our country since that comes with breaking the law. If they have friends who are citizens and they’re willing to baby-sit until the illegals figure out a way to come back legally, fine with me. I have no problem with the kids being born here and having citizenship. Between being dealt with harshly and companies too fearful of punishment, there will be less incentive for illegals to make the effort.

    A couple of other things:
    *let cops seek proof of citizenship from people detained either through traffic stops or whatever, especially if the detained don’t speak English. If the cops can then find them to be illegal, all the better.
    *take away benefits that are given to illegals. The most galling I’ve heard is some state (Kalifornia?) offering in-state tuitions for college eduations. Good gosh!

    It’s true, there’s a lot of blame to pass around on this one. Any one who’s voting age gets a piece for not being more insistant with their candidates on this issue. So it may get dicey for a lot of people. That’s a bad reason to do it improperly or half-assed. The only way to truly correct or reverse the situation requires severe measures. Not immoral, just severe, as in “This is the RIGHT way, and that’s how we’ll do it, no matter what!” Then, when we see some real results, we can revisit the debate over how many LEGAL immigrants should be allowed in every year.
35. Marshall Art says:

    May 17, 2006 at 1:27 am

    As Jay Leno said, “Who says we can’t deport 11 million people? Mexico did!” (I know, I know, they’re not all Mexican!)
36. Lorica says:

    May 17, 2006 at 1:35 pm

    Actually I do think we could deport many of these folks. I think “sefl-deportation” would take place once you get started. There is not enough “underground” to hold the 15-20 million illegals, and if you pass strict enough legislation, they will take their belongings and go, instead of us confiscating their property.

    I personally would not like to see this happen tho. I do want to have compassion on these people. But there is alot of illegalities in the whole complex issue. Iowa is right now looking at passing amnesty for sex slaves for those woman/children who turn in their handlers. I don’t have a problem with that.

    We need to strenghten the border to stop the flood of illegals, and for our security. Once this happens we need to start to deal with those that are here already. Especially the criminal element. – Lorica
37. CB Howell says:

    May 17, 2006 at 3:01 pm

    Just a thought here…Why not tax them? Let them in to work any job they’d like but they have to pay a 20% FICA-like tax on top of normal state, local, and fed taxes. I’m sure a identification system can be set up so that employer’s can verify worker compliance. Then, to get employers to comply offer reductions in labor related taxes.

    Stopping these folks from coming across the border isn’t too realistic and I agree with Bak, 6000 troops is just a token gesture and as much as govn’t and big business love each other enforcement on that end doesn’t seem likely either. So why not? If the money is right for business relative to compliance why wouldn’t they do it?
38. Baklava says:

    May 17, 2006 at 5:09 pm

    CB smartly asked, “Why not tax them?”

    Yeah. Let’s do that. They’d have to admit they were here illegally and that they were using forged documents fraudulently and/or volunteer to make less money by being taxed.

    I have a neighbor who is latino that would be laughing at you at this moment. He says they don’t want citizenship. They have everything they need/want already. They receive benefits, social services, etc. They don’t want to go through the process of becoming legal (paying the thousands of dollars and going through the process)

    Unfortunately, we have to get a handle on the situation. You can’t let illegal immigration continue unfettered. It has NOTHING to do with Mexicans or latinos. It has everything to do with making sure hospitals in the south aren’t going to close up anymore, budgets are strained, NATIONAL SECURITY is attended to, crime is reduced, the environment in the area is helped.

    CB wrote with negativity, “Stopping these folks from coming across the border isn’t too realistic ”

    Well… while you sit there saying it can’t be done, we Americans with the can do spirit will get it done. There are areas that have been fenced already where crime is down, property value has come back up and what not. Are you going to say, “I give up” and let the area continue to be pummelled?
39. CB Howell says:

    May 17, 2006 at 5:35 pm

    It’s not a matter of “giving up.” It’s about being realistic. I completely agree with you relative to what this is costing us. And the attitudes that you eluded to just add insult to injury.

    I feel like I have invited the neighbors over for a gourmet home cooked dinner and afterwards they start rummaging through the cupboards for stuff to take home…or to the next house…and as they are leaving, rather than thanking us for our hospitality, the call us suckers!

    Bak, at the end of the day, there’s nothing more I would like to see happen then kicking those that deserve it out on their arses and slamming the door in their faces. But it’s not going to happen. Period. To believe it so is foolish.

    Unfortunately, the ONLY solution that insures action is one that facilitates BOTH the politicians looking good and those hiring them to continue making money.

    Right now it costs us. It needs to cost them. If the tax is right, our cost will be reduced and perhaps, it might serve as a deterrent to those who want to come here illegally.

    Really, I quite amazed this has not been discussed sooner. It wouldn’t be the first time this type of tax was used… Look at sin taxes, specifically cigarettes. Smokers take a disporportionate amount of entitlments relative to healthcare. So if they’re going to do it they’re going to have to pay a HUGE tax on smokes to offset the burden. It makes sense..doesn’t it?
40. Baklava says:

    May 18, 2006 at 2:48 am

    CB wrote, “But it’s not going to happen. Period. To believe it so is foolish.”

    It may not. But we don’t need to see defeatist rhetoric helping it not happen.

    I believe a groundswell of Americans WANT the 11 – 12 million illegal immigrants PROCESSED in SOME FASHION so that we know WHO is here. To become legal they need to pay the FINES, and jump through the hurdles and be prosecuted for committing fraud if they had fraudulent papers that got them work and whatnot.

    Additionally, laws like the prop 187 that was supposed to deny benefits to illegal immigrants need to be considered. Instead states are offering in-state tuitions to illegal immigrants!!!!!!!!!!

    It’s backwards from how it should be.

    It’d be like library patrons stealing the books instead of checking them out and then us offering them something to eat while they are there committing the stealing.

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