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Audacity of Truth
Revisiting the “would you date a liberal” argument
Over two years ago, I started a thread here asking readers whether or not they would let someone’s political affiliation stop them from dating/marrying them. There were quite a few interesting responses in the thread. My response was that it didn’t matter one way or the other as long as the guy worshipped me 
I’ve written since then (not sure it was here, or at a political message board I frequent) that I’m not sure if I could date a liberal anymore, considering how polarized the left and right have become. I have dated liberal men in the past and at the time saw little difference in them and the conservative men I went out with, but the last liberal guy I went out with on a regular basis was years and years ago, and over the years I’ve become more set in my ways regarding my political views. I’m not totally anti-going out with one, but there would be some make it or break it issues for me, like the war in Iraq, the sanctity of human life, and Christianity. If we disagreed strongly on those issues, we’d have to part company. I’m not saying I’d conduct a big interview on the first date or anything like that to find out (LOL) – I mean, when you’re interested in someone, the first thing you ask them is not “are you a liberal or conservative?” – but eventually those things do come up in some way shape or form throughout the course of the relationship. If I found out we agreed in general terms on the issues I mentioned, I’d be cool with snuggling up with him, because the other issues I’d try to persuade him on a bit later in the relationship, in an effort to bring him over to the dark side 
What brought this up was John Hawkins’ interview with several female conservative bloggers on their dating experiences with liberal and conservative men, and what the differences (if any) were/are. Most of them say that either they would not date a liberal and/or the experience they’ve had with them haven’t been good.
I only have one experience that really stands out on that front, which I may have talked about here before (I know I wrote about this at the political forum I visit, and am reposting parts here so I don’t have to re-type it). Actually two experiences, now that I think about it, that would have fit in the ’stereotypical’ liberal man vs. conservative man definition each side holds about the other. Back in the mid 90s I went out with a nice-looking conservative guy who was divorced with two (or was it three?) kids. On our first (and only) date, he talked fondly of his ex-wife and how he wanted a stay at home mom just like her to raise his kids, mentioned how much I looked like his ex, etc. Keep in mind I was in my mid 20s at the time, and was unprepared to be the mother of someone else’s kids, not to mention I wanted to work.
On the other hand, around that same time frame, I had been talking to this cool guy I’d met at a sports bar/ club that I went to with friends sometimes. This guy was very attractive and he seemed nice enough. Anyone who’s been to a club knows it’s kind of hard to “talk” at one because it’s so loud, so one evening when I was there, he invited me out to his car so we could talk without having to yell – I went, and on the back of his car there was a “Clinton/Gore” bumper sticker. I asked him if he was still a supporter after all had been said and done (this was shortly after the 1996 election). And he said something like “hell yeah, Clinton’s a cool dude.” I liked this guy, so I didn’t engage him in any political debate – especially about Clinton. We exchanged phone numbers, and he called me a couple times and we had some nice chats. On about our third call, I decided I’d call him – and found out the number he’d given me was his work number. Hmmmm … When I asked to speak with him, the receptionist who was screening calls asked me, “Is this his wife?”
Apparently just wanted a little fling on the side … needless to say, he was history after that. I didn’t take his calls and avoided him at the club, which I didn’t go to much after that experience, anyway.
But that was an exception to the rule. The liberal men I have dated I broke up with for reasons unrelated to their political beliefs. Most of the time it was due to incompatibility on other things, loss of interest, them being overly possessive, things like that. Their manners were, for the most part, just like a conservative guys’ in that they held the door for me, gave me their coat when it was cold, etc – maybe it’s because the liberal men I’ve dated have been from the South and possessed Southern manners that I didn’t have these really negative experiences some conservative women have had with liberals males. Now, if I had gone out with a California liberal (for example) the experience might have been decidedly different 
The bottom line is that I don’t think we should limit ourselves, when there are so many interesting people out there whose views many not mesh 100% with ours but who, nevertheless, could make a good soulmate.
Independent Liberal Kevin Sullivan understandably didn’t like the Hawkins’ piece, but I disagree with the way he choose to respond to it by attacking the conservative female bloggers personally. I can see a criticism of their comments on the general level, but the personal swipes were a bit much. I say this with some degree of experience, considering some of the things I’ve written here about radical liberal feminists which led to nasty personal attacks on me in response. Now I’m a grown woman, and can handle such attacks, but they’re really not necessary in the scheme of things, and in the end really don’t solve anything. It’s one thing to criticize another blogger’s arguments, even another blogger himself in terms of his/her debating style, but taking a personal swipe is going too far. IMO, Kevin should leave that stuff to the far left bloggers who have have cornered the market on such behavior, and save his blogspace for the more meaningful issue-oriented posts he publishes …. even if I don’t always agree with everything he writes
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Evisceration? A news report of a pansy progressive stuffed head-first into a trash can?
Well, allow me to expand a bit. I’ve dated a lot of liberal women, and I have the same type of concerns that these bloggers have. I am a Liberal, but I’m often not Left-leaning enough for the kinds of women I see. I actually had a girlfriend say that I shouldn’t dress the way I did, because to dress in my fashion implied Leftism, which I clearly wasn’t to her.
However, having gone through the same hunt (I actually prefer to date women who are different than me), I take issue with their blanket assumptions about what liberal men are like–too secular, too morally vapid, too self-absorbed, etc. I think these are unfair assumptions to make of someone based off of ideology. I think two people can meet, blend their ideals, and as a result grow together. I think their outlook on all of it is too narrow. Perhaps they were answering the way RWN readers would like them to answer, but I can’t really respect someone who thinks upon first meeting someone “gee, I wonder if he/she is a ‘D’ or an ‘R’?”
There’s more to life than this stuff.
….’tis written: thou shalt not be un-evenly yoked.
Wise, this is!
You know, if James Carville and Mary Matalin can somehow find a way to do it…
But I’ve been dating my current wife since 2000, so it’s been a long time since I’ve worried about dating. Although my wife is a big liberal, I did marry into a catholic conservative/libertarian family. Things actually have gone fairly well, I like them and they like me, and they’re are some basic rules about things we don’t talk about (stem cells being the biggest). Other pollitical issues get debated from time to time, but we mostly avoid national politics and discuss the local, where we agree more often than not.
I never dated someone conservative, but it’s not for lack of trying. There was a really cute rock-climber, backpacker, ultra-marathon runner that I liked alot in college. She and I had fun hanging out, but our personalities were too different. I met another cute conservative in grad school, but she was too insecure with herself and ended up causing me nothing but grief.
Sisted Toldjah: It wouldn’t shock me if you could no longer date a liberal. You’ve obviously invested so much time (& emotional energy) into this blog, that I would guess it was difficult to flick a switch turn that boiled blood off again.
The Carville/Matalin thing still surprises me though, I guess they don’t discuss any politics inside the home.
ST,
It’s good you’re thinking about these things and staking out your position.
The more you have in common with them of what’s most important to you, the better… (And the more you have in common with their parents too, the better – but you can’t find that out until later.)
If you’re a Christian, I’d seriously encourage you to look for a guy that is too. I realize that’s not an easy task, but getting into Christian singles ministries can help you get-to-know different guys before actually going out on dates with them.
In my younger days I didn’t discuss politics much with my dates. I actually found out my ex-wife was a democrat about a year and a half after the divorce, boy is that bad or what.
By my thirties, I had made a conscious decision not to date any more liberal women. And it wasn’t because they were dim, quite to the contrary I had a lot of fun in good-natured “debates” with some of the sharper ones, and as long as there was some mutual respect it was all good. Or so I thought.
But it impacts too many other things.
Maybe I could write a whole book about this, but to just scratch the surface of it what we need to do is inspect the very foundation of human relationships. Pretend, for the moment, you and I are going to illustrate this, not by dating but by bartering. You have a larger spread of land and you plant corn. I breed cows. I do not have access to corn and you do not have access to milk or beef, and so we start bartering. In this way, we have a symbiotic relationship. Each of us defines our symbiotic relationship through the identity by which we recognize the other.
We can do this one of two ways. We can recognize each other’s weaknesses…
…I say “there is my good friend Sister Toldjah. She needs me because she does not have any cows.” And you can say “that is my new friend Morgan. He needs me because he does not have corn.”
OR, we can recognize each other’s strengths. I think of you as someone who can provide me with corn. You think of me as someone who can provide you with milk and beef.
Over the short term, it seems like we have a more durable friendship when we recognize each other’s weaknesses. It has the appearance of being altruistic in both directions. But the altruism is phony. Our friendship originates with pure pragmatism, regardless of how we choose to recognize it. The compassion we have for each other grows from that.
But when we become known to each other because of our strengths, which is how conservatives recognize their relationships and friendships — we allow for personal growth. I do not have to feel threatened if you buy a cow. You do not have to feel threatened if I start growing corn.
And looking back on my dating relationships with liberal women, I notice this is how they all came to an end. I would naturally want to overcome some limitation, maybe learn how to do something…suddenly there’d be all this insecurity and I didn’t understand until years later how it came about.
I should add that, with no exceptions, every single liberal woman I stopped dating was, according to her, the “only” woman who would ever put up with me. They all turned out to be wrong. ++grin++
LOL
I was reading a couple of my posts from 2 years ago. This Woman that I wrote about then, would start arguments with me because we Christians were going to make abortion illegal with Roberts’ and Alito’s appointment to the SCOTUS. Well it is 2 years later and I am still waiting on that. 
My feelings haven’t changed, it seems to me to be a big waste of time to date a liberal gal. The passion and interaction of being with someone who is opposite of you can be fun, but after awhile it can be harmful too. Just like this woman would get mad at me, because of something Bush or Cheney did.
I would ask her how is it my fault, and her answer…. You voted for him. 
Okayyyyyyy!!!
I am about to turn 45 now and I am thinking unless the good Lord takes a rib and makes a woman, OR I somehow miracliously find myself in North Carolina I am going to be single for the rest of my life. It is all good no matter how it works out.
It is in His hands and I am good with it. – Lorica
Lorica, you just have to go with the flow. I had completely given up on ever finding a woman who wasn’t a complete flake and insane back in the day, had just bought a small house figuring I was never going to meet anyone who I could stand to be around, and immediately as I moved in I met my wife. If I’d have known she was coming along I’d have gotten a bigger house. Well, 22 years later, she and the house are both still with me, and I’m happy as a clam. It’ll hit you when you least expect it.
I have dated different people in the day, and mostly I never knew much about their politics, with a couple of exceptions. I dated a radical feminist type, who’s hypocrisy finally got the better of me and we parted company with many hard feelings. I also dated a liberal, Yankee, artistic type (me being a Southern, conservative, scientific type). The miscommunication caused by our different backgrounds were tough at times, we would often talk past each other as our backgrounds were just too dissimilar, made it hard to communicate. We are still friends though, it was just hard to have a more serious relationship, though we settled into become good friends
Thankfully I no longer have to date. Often when my wife and I are watching TV or something, a dating or relationship story or such will come on, and we’ll look at each other and both say “Don’t ever make me have to date again” at the same time.
ST
While I have a number of close friends who are liberals I would have a tough time dating one. One friend, who’s one of the top Dems here in Charlotte (you’d know her name) keeps wanting to set me up with women and I’m having a tough time coming up with excuses to put her off without hurting her feelings. I just don’t have time or patience to argue with someone who doesn’t share my basic values.
When I asked to speak with him, the receptionist who was screening calls asked me, “Is this his wife?”>>
Glad you figured it out before he broke your heart.
His poor wife.
Forgot to comment on this, this is the kind of despicable behavior that too many men do that taints the pool for us all. After encountering this kind of unethical, immoral, selfish lout too often, women are justifiably hesitant about men and it just makes it harder for the rest of us honorable men to get past their defenses and get to know them.
It’s good you dodged that bullet ST.
Awwwww Thanks Sev. I appreciate the advice. Life is very good for me right now, and I am sure that there is a Mrs. Lorica out there somewhere.
– Lorica
Lorica, Sev’s right. Go with the flow and don’t rush it. She will come along when you least expect it.
I made the mistake of rushing into a bad marriage when I was young, and followed that up with an ill-fated relationship or two coming off the divorce. Finally I decided “to hell with this” and wised up enough to just let things ride. A couple of years later I met the perfect woman for me, at a hockey game of all places, and 12 years later we’re still together.
And I didn’t even find out she was a conservative until a month or so along. Sometimes it just all falls into place. You’ll do fine – hang in there, my friend.
Thanks GWR, I do appreciate it. I know I am still a youngin’, heck Tony Randall was in his 70s and look at his life.
I have plenty of time. It is all good. 
– Lorica
Lorica, perhaps you need to move to NY, Philly, or DC:
The comments in this thread just prove what I’ve been saying all along: All the good ones are either taken, or live too far away
Awwwwww
I appreciate that too Dear. At the end of June my job moves to Columbus Ohio, which from what I have read, has the greatest proportion of single gals to single guys over every other city in the US. But I don’t really feel like the idea of moving to Columbus. If it were a tad further south, then I would be all for it. Charlotte would be a fine spot IMHO, but Rummy never asked me, sadly enough. 
– Lorica
About a year ago a woman I was interested in asked if I was a Republican or Democrat. I said Republican. I was then called a few things. The word “jerk” was mentioned a couple of times.
So I’m still in the Bay Area, and still single. LOL
But I do have a date this weekend, so wish me luck!
Ryan, Good Luck!!! As far as being in the bay area. They seem to be very active politically there. The next time there is an anti….whatever march, just show up and hang out with the rest of the Conservative good guys. Seems like a good way to meet women.
– Lorica