#FAIL: Democrat/MSM narratives fall apart in tragic #TrayvonMartin case

Posted by: ST on March 27, 2012 at 7:14 pm

Another day, another Democrat/MSM myth / narrative busted (via Memeorandum):

The individual at the center of the controversial Trayvon Martin shooting is a registered Democrat.

George Michael Zimmerman, born Oct. 5, 1983, registered as a Democrat in Seminole County, Fla., in August 2002, according to state voter registration documents.

It is unclear whether he voted for President Barack Obama in 2008.

Some in the media have sought to blame Republican politicians and conservative activists for Martin’s death.

“[Republican politicians] reinforce and validate old stereotypes that associate the poor and welfare as criminal behavior with African-Americans and people of color, calling us lazy, undeserving recipients of public assistance. In the case of Trayvon, those festering stereotypes had lethal consequences,” said MSNBC political analyst and Democratic fundraiser Karen Finney.

According to the document, Zimmerman’s race is officially listed as Hispanic. The son of a white father and Peruvian mother, he has been described as a “white Hispanic” in most media reports.

In the scheme of things NONE of this should really matter but to race/party-obsessed Democrats desperate to gain traction in yet another tough election year, in the fighting spirit of Rahmbo they’re not letting the “opportunity” go to waste to once again attempt use a tragedy to paint their political opposition as “violent racists” — even though there was ZERO, ZILCH, NADA political motive for what happened between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin on the night of February 26, 2012.   Once you read the police reports, listen to the audio recordings, etc, you see that the race of the alleged victim and the alleged perp in this case aren’t relevant whatsoever except to a political  party that treats perpetual victimhood as a family value.  And, of course, the national main stream media has gone right along with it by jumping into a local story and selectively reporting information that “helps” create the (false) narrative that George Zimmerman was a meddling racist white man, influenced by conservatives, who SET OUT to murder a black teen because he was wearing a hoodie.

MediaI’ve written about this a lot on Twitter the last few days as I’ve attempted to gather my thoughts and actually READ and flesh out the information available out there to draw my own conclusions, unlike most left wingers, politicos, agenda-driven journalists, race hustlers, and the left’s key voting bloc:  uninformed, easily manipulated American citizens. I’m not hyperventilating about raaaaacism in America, nor am I deliberately glossing over key information, and I’m not speaking before I’ve spent a reasonable amount of time researching case specifics – much of which has been available since the week of the shooting, contra to sensationalistic “news” outlets like CBS News who try to paint old information as “new details.”

Let me give you an important link in all this that will help you draw your own conclusions as well.  The City of Sanford released, among other things, audio of the 911 calls from the night of the shooting, including the call from George Zimmerman (labeled “call 1″), which was made before he got out on foot to track Trayvon Martin’s whereabouts.  In another call, you can hear part of the struggle taking place – where someone is yelling for help.  Then you hear a shot and nothing after that.

Here are some things you also need to know:

— It has been confirmed (on the night of the shooting, not “recently”) by two EYEwitnesses, one a teenage boy out walking his dog that night and a resident of the townhome development, that George Zimmerman was the person screaming for help, on his back, getting beat up by Trayvon Martin. Martin’s father initially told the Sanford police that the voice he heard crying for help was NOT Trayvon Martin but  he has since changed his story.  So if you were thinking that George Zimmerman ambushed Trayvon Martin and killed him in cold blood, you’re wrong.

— It is confirmed as per the 911 call Zimmerman made that night that once he was on foot looking for Trayvon Martin that he had LOST sight of Martin.  Police say there is about a one minute gap in between the time of end of Zimmerman’s phone call to them where they don’t know what happened and after that one minute is what they hear on the 911 call made by the resident as the struggle is in progress.  Zimmerman told police that he’d lost sight of Martin and was headed back to his SUV when Martin confronted him and that’s when the altercation allegedly started.  Zimmerman’s claims are that Martin asked him what his problem was and said that he had a problem now, and punched him in the nose and slammed his head against the sidewalk and was on top of him, beating him up, and that he (Martin) was reaching for his (Zimmerman’s) gun, and that he (Zimmerman) had no choice but to shoot to save his life.

— Per the Sanford PD, Zimmerman’s physical appearance that night was consistent with someone who had been on the grass and hit in the back of the head and punched in the nose.

— Contra to the claims made by various mainstream media outlets, George Zimmerman did not make 46 calls to 911 in a year and a half’s time. He made that many calls since  2004.  Hardly the actions of a “meddling, busy body neighborhood watchman.”

— One of the 911 calls Zimmerman made was about a 7-9 year old black boy.  Daily Beast noted this in their reporting about his 911 call history but falsely claimed that no reason was given for why he called 911 on a 7-9 year old black boy. The left, of course, assumes he did it because he is so suspicious of black people that he’ll report an innocent child.  In fact, the very same police report indicated that the caller (George Zimmerman) had called 911 because the boy was wandering around alone near a busy street and he was concerned about his welfare.  Sure sounds like a racist to me. Not.

— FACT: The neighborhood in question has seen a rise in crime over the last year, and neighbors describe black youths as the primary culprits.  Naturally, if you’re paying attention to what’s going on in your neighborhood, you’re going to look for anyone who might be suspicious, including people who fit the description of the people who have been burglarizing homes in the area.

Spin Blvd Truth Ave– Contra to the MSM’s continual posting of an older picture of a baby-faced small Trayvon Martin, he was a 17 year old, 6’2″ 150-160 lb  teenager (not a “child” as so many left wingers are screaming out) who was in good enough shape to play high school football, in contrast to George Zimmerman – who is approximately 5’9″, over 200 lbs and out of shape.  Also, a profile picture on both Martin’s Facebook and Twitter pages shows him with gold grills for teeth, the kind you typically see on rappers and “gangstas.” The language and slang used on his Twitter account was gangsta slang (example: “Niggaz” was part of his Twitter name).   Yes, he had trouble in school with being suspended for, among other things,  having a baggie with trace elements of marijuana.  His Twitter feed indicated that he smoked it regularly.  And just like in most rap songs, he had an unhealthy disrespect for black women and violently fantasized about “Glock use.”

These are all FACTS, not “racism.”

— Some have argued as to the relevance of this information, claiming people noting this are “blaming the victim.” Not really.  What all of that tells us is that Trayvon Martin is exactly the kind of person you would think would angrily and aggressively confront someone he felt was following him, rather than maintaining a safe distance.

Here are some questions to ask yourself if you think George Zimmerman deliberately set out to kill a black teenager that night:

-Do those who plan on murdering someone typically call the police and give them their whereabouts before they commit the act? George Zimmerman did.

– Do those who plan on targeting someone for murder typically give the police all their personal information (name, address, telephone number) prior to commencing with their sinister plot? George Zimmerman did.

– Do those whose intent it was to kill someone tell the police to call them back so they can tell them where they are while they are tracking someone they view as suspicious in their neighborhood? George Zimmerman did.

– Do those who have a bloodlust for gunning down anyone who looks suspicious – black or otherwise – call 911 at all to report the activity rather than take the law into their own hands? George Zimmerman did.   In fact, on the phone call he made to 911, he first describes Trayvon was walking towards his SUV like Trayvon was going to confront him then.  If his intent was to kill, don’t you think he’d have pulled his gun at that time and fired?

– Do people who are on top of someone else beating them up usually call for help multiple times?

– Is it possible that George Zimmerman’s intent was to merely “keep a track” of Trayvon’s whereabouts until police got there rather than to have an altercation/confrontation? Remember, he told the 911 operator to have the police call him so he could tell them where he (GZ) was when they got there.

– Should George Zimmerman have stayed in his SUV and let the police handle this situation, as was urged by the 911 dispatcher? My answer is yes, especially hindsight being what it is.

– Did you know that George Zimmerman has also reported “suspicious-looking” Hispanic males to 911?

Keystone CopsThere have been suggestions by some that the Sanford PD royally screwed up the handling of the case. I see some things they probably should have done, but as far as colossal errors that would compromise the case to any significant degree, I’m just not seeing it.    One issue brought up by Trayvon Martin’s family was that George Zimmerman was not tested for drugs or alcohol, which I guess is a standard procedure after a violent gun crime.  Yes, the police should have done that – but they didn’t, and I’m not sure what it would have proved, anyway.  A narcotics detective rather than a homicide detective interviewed Zimmerman first than night. I’m not sure if he was interviewed by a homicide detective if it would have made a difference, but people with much more legal insight will hopefully weigh in with their thoughts on it so I/you can make your judgment call about that.

Much hay has been made by some conservatives about the fact that Martin’s mother Sybrina is trying to trademark her son’s name. I have zero issue with this and completely believe the family’s explanation that they don’t want anyone exploiting Trayvon Martin’s name for financial gain outside of them, and that any money they make would go to programs that they hope would ensure this type of situation doesn’t happen to another family.

My heart aches for Trayvon’s parents.  They’ve lost their son.  God bless them and comfort them. I will not disparage them, even though I despise the race pimps like Sharpton and  Jackson who are using them and their son to advance their own pathetic agendas.  Talk about dancing on graves. The Jacksons and Sharptons of this world, and the national MSM, is where most of my ire will be directed.

I hope Trayvon’s mom and dad get the answers they seek, whether it be through a trial where ALL evidence is laid out on the table, or over the long term as investigators at the local, state, and national level dig into the case.  Sadly, I doubt they ever will now that the combined circus of both the national MSM and Race Hustlers of America have come to town.  Once they show up, the desire for facts and truth are abandoned in favor of sensationalism, ratings, and personal/professional/political motives that have nothing to do with giving a grieving family any degree of peace of mind.

And don’t even get me started on our celebrity President’s insertion of himself into this case by saying if he had a son, he would look like Trayvon.  Way to show the “fairness” of the US Justice system, Mr. President.

Lastly, I don’t know everything about this case and don’t want to come off as acting like I do.  I don’t know everything that HAPPENED that night.  No one does, except George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin, who unfortunately is no longer around to ask.  Was this preventable? Yes, if Zimmerman had stayed in his vehicle.  But he didn’t – I suspect more out of a misguided motivation to be a helpful hero to the police than anything else.  And because he didn’t, a young (troubled-sounding) teenager is dead, and we’re all left wondering how it got to that point.

Nothing in this post should be construed as me being on one side or the other. I am on the side of being as informed as I can be and finding out all the facts, and helping others in guiding them to information that will help them draw their own conclusions.  All I am saying with this is to keep an open mind.  My personal view is that the media/Dem narratives about this case are falling apart and that Zimmerman at best would face an involuntary manslaughter charge.  It’s clear he didn’t set out to kill anyone that night based on his 911 call. He had opportunities before the deadly confrtontation and he didn’t take them. He had opportunities on other occasions, too, with other “suspicious people” he reported but didn’t take them.

It is in fact possible to want justice for both Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman.  That is where I stand.

And now, the floor is yours.

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26 Responses to “#FAIL: Democrat/MSM narratives fall apart in tragic #TrayvonMartin case”

Comments

  1. Tango says:

    ….the only thing that is clear to me at the present time is that I hold Barry and the MSM in total contempt for their high-tech lynching before any evidence was revealed.

    A pox on them all.

  2. krys says:

    I am curious as to whether any family member called the police that night to report him missing. Or whether the girlfriend tried to call him again that night to see if he got home safely or alert someone.

  3. theHispanicCracker says:

    The race baiters encourage vigilantism, discrimination and injustice all in the name of justice. The MSM want their bloodlust satisfied to increase ratings, no need for truth here. And then we are left with that black-caucasian Spike Lee who tweets GZ’s address, for what purpose does a tool dick like Spike do this for? The end result is murder if the black panthers have their way as just cause for this tragedy. And then we have a equally complicit DOJ and president who turn a blind eye to the facts, ignore the truth and perpetuate their agenda for their own good and no one else’s. I think I understand their world and it’s pretty F’d in my opinion.

  4. bvw says:

    Nice job on laying the facts down in a good order.

    We are all lucky no one has yet been killed on account of inflaming the ready-to-hate-on mobs.

  5. Mitch says:

    Whatever the altercation was that took place between Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman, you can bet the the lame stream media and idiots like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton will take full advantage of it. It won’t even matter what the facts are. To the Liberal media and the race-baiters, this event is just too good to be true. Never mind that George Zimmerman was fighting for his life, according to reports from eyewitnesses.

    Sometimes, I look at America and what it has become and I think, I don’t even want to live here anymore. I’m sorry. I really don’t. I’m going to put in words here this evening what a lot of you I’m sure think, but are afraid to articulate.

    I guess I’m what you might call an SOB. Sick of Blacks and their whining, sick of their complaining, sick of their demanding more of our government than the rest of us and most of all, sick of most of the crime in this nation being carried out by Blacks. I no longer watch Basketball because it is dominated by one race and one race only. I no longer watch Football for the same reason, except College. You might want to read this real quick, because Sister Toldjah may kill it at any moment.

    I’m a racist. But, I’m a curious kind of racist. You see, my racism is based not on skin color, but on behavior. Crazy I know, but I judge you on your behavior, pure and simple. My prejudice that is directed towards you and others like you is based solely on how you behave in public, relative to other people around you, trying their best to enjoy the same space. With me so far? Good. You behave like an Idiot, bingo, you’re an Idiot. I am sorry to inform you of this reality, but the polite society that most of us live in daily, demands at least a small measure of manners. I fully realize that with the decline of religious principles and morals in our society, that is something sorely lacking in our lives at the moment. Doesn’t matter a rat’s ass to me. You want to live like that, you are certainly free to do so.

    In closing, I would remind you that I have no respect whatsoever for the current President of the United States of America. Nor do I have any respect for the Idiots who elected him. Did I miss anything? I hope not. Because there are so many among us these days who are reluctant to tell you what they really think. I’m not one of them.

  6. Svensk says:

    I totally agree with you, but can’t wait to have my feelings published on this site. Every time I do, it is monitored, reviewed, edited, and abrogates the First Amendment!!. Much contrary to open conservatism…..

  7. EBL says:

    http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2012/03/27/the-secret-chord/ Yours and Wretchard’s posts are the best on this subject on the web. At least that I have seen.

  8. Drew the Infidel says:

    The Black Panthers and lamestream media have “revelaed themselves” to show there isn’t a dime’s worth of difference between themselves and the publicity-hungry lunatic fringe like the Klan and skinheads. BTW, the head of the Black Panthers who posted the bounty on Zimmerman has been arrested for a weapons violation out of Georgia.

  9. TexasMom2012 says:

    It is my understanding that fact checking has determined the fact that the address actually tweeted is not Zimmerman’s address instead it belongs to a couple aged 70 & 72 that are now in fear of losing their lives and their home.
    I also read that Zimmerman has been withdrawn from college classes by the institution he was attending. Reminds me of the Duke LaCrosse fiasco, ‘white guy’ is presumed guilty and has to ‘prove’ his innocence to the press who crucifies him without any factual disclosures. So after all the hoopla if he is truly innocent of stalking and killing for being black while wearing hoodie…. Where does George go to get his reputation and life back???

  10. ST says:

    Svensk, I get email copies of every comment that goes into moderation. If you can find any comment that you think has been edited for anything outside of a curse word, email me.

    As far as your First Amendment assertions, too funny. You clearly don’t understand what the FA means.

  11. Drew the Infidel says:

    @Texas Mom2012: Bill Or’Reilly made the same comparison on his Monday show and it is valid. The accuser in the Duke case has been arrested for attempted murder and the DA who prosecuted the case, Mike Nifong, is currently serving a prison term for prosecutorial misconduct.

  12. Stexas says:

    If you listen to the 911 call, the first time Mr. Zimmerman describes Trayvon he says he thinks he is black. He doesn’t say it in a vigilante or racist way. He says it in a way so the operator knows what the trespasser looks like. Only late does he say Trayvon is black when Trayvon walks toward him. He doesn’t say it in a racist way but only as a description. I think that clears up the hate crime charges.

  13. Mike Giles says:

    “– FACT: The neighborhood in question has seen a rise in crime over the last year, and neighbors describe black youths as the primary culprits. Naturally, if you’re paying attention to what’s going on in your neighborhood, you’re going to look for anyone who might be suspicious, including people who fit the description of the people who have been burglarizing homes in the area.”

    So. If there’s a rise in crime in your area, then it’s okay to treat every black person that enters your neighborhood as a potential criminal. And heaven forbid that they ever get angry at that treatment? It’s okay if you follow them around like they were shoplifting in a store. BUT they are never, never, never supposed to get angry at such treatment. As a matter of fact since they’re the same color as the reported criminals, they should expect it? Sister, are you listening to yourself? That’s what I find most outrageous about the entire incident. That Martin was somehow supposed to be “content” with being treated like a criminal simply because he was black. He was not supposed to be angry or suspicious of some guy following him around, but was just supposed to accept it. I see that attitude running through so many of the comments on the incident.

  14. Really? says:

    Now for balance, son of a judge George Zimmerman’s record:

    According to a records search on George, he was previously arrested for domestic violence, resisting an officer without violence and most shockingly, resisting an officer with violence — a felony charge that surely could have landed him in prison.

    http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/27/10894561-zimmerman-accused-of-domestic-violence-fighting-with-a-police-officer

  15. gravelagitator says:

    If a rise in crime perpetrated primarily by BLACK youths is documented in an area it is only common sense that black youths would be watched more closely than white,asian, or hispanic youths. You are either dense or dishonest to find racisim in that.

  16. Ken66 says:

    I saw the picture of a 12-year-old, and to a MUCH lesser extent the picture of the 21 year old who got himself shot. A picture is worth a thousand words…

  17. Mike Giles says:

    “If a rise in crime perpetrated primarily by BLACK youths is documented in an area it is only common sense that black youths would be watched more closely than white,asian, or hispanic youths. You are either dense or dishonest to find racisim in that.”

    So since racism has been perpetuated mostly by whites in the past, you would expect to be supsicious of racism in the intentions and actions of whites today. “You would have to be either dense or dishonest to find racism in that”.

    Next question, the majority of black crime is black on black crime, and often happens in black neighborhoods. If you don’t happen to be black or in a majority black neighborhood, it is far more likely that your assailant would be white. So would it make more sense to follow whites in a white neighborhood. Or is the assumption that because blacks commit the majority of crimes – in the inner city ghettos – than all blacks should be under suspicion. IOW, skin color in and of itself, is cause for suspicion.

  18. Mike Giles says:

    “I saw the picture of a 12-year-old, and to a MUCH lesser extent the picture of the 21 year old who got himself shot. A picture is worth a thousand words…”

    I believe Martin was 17. My – he just seems to get older and older, and bigger and bigger. And of course, a couple of tweets and a pose on Facebook, makes him a “thug gangster”.

  19. JoAnna says:

    “Really?”, did you even bother to read the article you posted?

    “In 2005, Zimmerman, then 20, was arrested and charged with “resisting officer with violence” and “battery of law enforcement officer,” both which are third-degree felonies. The charge was reduced to “resisting officer without violence” and then waived when he entered an alcohol education program. Contemporaneous accounts indicate he shoved an officer who was questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking at an Orange County bar.”

    So, an idiot mistake made at 20 years old while under the influence of alcohol = murderous racist. I see.

    “In August 2005, Zimmerman’s ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted.”

    Zimmerman was never charged with nor arrested for nor convicted of domestic violence. The fact that Zimmerman’s restraining order was also granted leads me to believe that his ex-fiance may have also had some issues.

    “In December 2006, Zimmerman was charged with speeding. The case was dismissed when the officer failed to show up in court.”

    He got caught SPEEDING? Lock him up and throw away the key! No decent American would ever get a speeding ticket!

    Please, step outside of the liberal bubble and use your brain. The average American probably has a criminal record like this. I think even Obama has an underage drinking rap.

  20. messup says:

    Excellent!

    Two facts about this singular event: 1) A sad event occured with an adolescent needlessly losing his life, and 2) politization of a sad event by community leaders, national party leaders, print, social media and socialist elements in America.

    Item 1) will be uncovered, tried in a court of law with a jury’s final verdict. Item 2) is political expediency by political pundits, Washington DC Elites, community organizers, far left socialist sympathizers preparing for a Presidential 2012 Election of a widely unpopular incumbent President.

    Two operating philosophies are on display: 1)flim-flammery of Mr. Obama’s “Right Hand/Left Hand Rule” slight of hand AND 2)Mr. Van Jones’ “Top Down/Bottom Up and Inside Out” as espoused in his STORM communist manifesto.

    This is the only explanation for Mr. Obama’s insertion of the White House into a yet unsolved, community Law Enforcement, matter involving a Trayvon Martin incident.

    Mr. Obama’s White House will stoop to new lows in order to bolster his sinking popularity among his ‘demographic base.’ God Bless America. May Trayvon’s soul rest in peace.Amen.

  21. Really? says:

    Yes Joanna. I did read several articles dear. I read that Zimmerman was a potentially violent and disturbed individual who attacked a policeman and was not charged because of his father being a judge – alledgedly of course.

    That is hardly a speeding ticket.

    In what twisted world of yours does a man who attacks a policeman not get charged due to his corrupt father, and then go on to be able carry a gun in public?

    The only one standing his ground in this scenario was Trayvon.

  22. Really? says:

    It bothers you that Zimmerman is being criticized for what he did when he was 20? How old was the murder victim? 20 is an adult. 17 is not.

    “The fact that Zimmerman’s restraining order was also granted leads me to believe that his ex-fiance may have also had some issues.” Issues? Really, she was with Zimmerman so that goes without saying.

    Also, I consider myself an average American and I don’t have a criminal record at all: no attacking a policeman, no father accused of judicial corruption, no shooting people dead, no speeding ticket, never assaulted a woman, never assualted a man, never filed a restraining order, never had one filed on me. I don’t know anyone with a criminal record. None of my friends have one. Nor anyone in my family.

    I think my bubble is much prettier than yours dear. What kind of low lifes do you hang out with?

  23. Phil Faustman says:

    This shows the national media is nothing but a liberal propaganda machine. To show a misleading picture of Trayvon when he was a little innocent looking boy and then show a picture of Zimmerman looking angry. The instant you looked at those pictures you think oh my god how could a man murder that innocent harmless little boy. This is the problem I have had with the national media for years now; they flat out lie or just don’t report the truth. NEVER BELIEVE THE LIBERAL NATIONAL MEDIA! All the outrage over this case and no one knows (or even seems to care) about the facts. Liberals have their agenda to fan the flames of racism to set us back another 50 years and divide this nation like never before seen in my lifetime. Sharpton, Jackson, and Obama should be ashamed of themselves but they never will admit they were wrong; liberals never say they were wrong. They are a diseased people that want a centralized socialist government at any expense. This is why they refuse to look at the truth and historical facts. It’s all about them and their socialist utopian fantasy.

    Great Blog by the way, keep up the great work.

  24. Mitch says:

    This was an excellent blog. Kudos to ST. I agree with bvw that it was a nice job of laying the facts down in a good order. But It was more than that. It was an expose of how the Left, aided by the media they own and race militants like Jackson and Sharpton, use any opportunity that comes along to promote their agenda and in the instance of Jackson and Sharpton, themselves at the same time. If these race baiters go more than a week or two without being in front of a camera, they they begin to suffer withdrawal symptoms.

    But even while we criticize the media and the opportunists, who always try to take advantage of any race war no matter how small, there is a growing tendency on the part of ordinary Americans to do the same thing and take sides on issues that make their way onto the national stage from time to time. Like the saying goes, everyone has an opinion (I cleaned that up a little.)

    Thanks to the transistor and the computer chip, we know almost instantly what happens around the world and it if it’s news that people can make money on and sell soap, it will surely be on the airwaves by morning. Immediately if not sooner, everyone forms an opinion of what happened. Whatever happened to due process? I don’t know how you can put together an unbiased jury in this day and age. Maybe in some remote village in Alaska, or somewhere in the Ozarks where they don’t have television. Everyone else has already seen the evening news. And formed their opinion. Aided in no small part by everybody out there with a big mouth and a camera.

    There has been some defense here by ST and others of the idea to remain neutral until all the facts are known. But we are all human. We are all prone to our own prejudices. To the degree that we fight those prejudices within us gives credit to our race. That’s the human race, by the way.

    Remember when George Bush Sr. said he wished we would become a kinder, gentler nation? I don’t think old George got his wish. The United States of America right now is one of the most vicious places on the planet to live. And we have an Idiot for a President that adds fuel to the fire when he would be better advised to keep his mouth shut. Yeah right, like that’s gonna happen anytime soon.

  25. Mitch says:

    By the way, I made a comment on another post here recently that one of the things I like most about this site is the polite discourse that takes place here between members. If any of you have visited other blogs on other sites, I think you know what I mean. I hope we can keep that here. I really do. A kinder, gentler nation. George had it right. Big difference between George Bush and Mayer and Letterman.