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Audacity of Truth
Spinsational:
"We were so busy just getting stuff done and dealing with the immediate crises that were in front of us that I think we lost some of that sense of speaking directly to the American people about what their core values are and why we have to make sure those institutions are matching up with those values."
-Obama, explaining recent Democrat losses, 1/20/10
Velvet Lair- The sexiness of winning the battle of good versus evil January 26, 2010
- Ever wonder why? January 12, 2010
- The decision to bench Peyton Manning: Right or wrong? December 28, 2009
- Is my dad turning into a metrosexual? November 24, 2009
- My “Things To Do For Christmas” list November 23, 2009
The undermining of this war
Maybe it’s because I’m feeling a bit on edge tonight, but I’m sitting here thinking about how much undermining of the war has gone on by the bogus accusations of ‘lies’ by Democrats in Congress and it makes me sick. I just cannot get over how so many of them are working to turn this into Vietnam in terms of the war being fought on two fronts – both abroad and in the press. Anti-war sentiment and negative press DID have an effect on the Vietnam war in terms of support … and the same crap is happening all over again.
It fascinates the he** out of me that so many Dems in Washington can say “we’re doing our patriotic duty by expressing dissent” … hogwash. As if dissenting is the only way to be patriotic. It also amazes me that they like to claim that their ‘dissent’ doesn’t hurt troop morale and embolden the enemy – yet another lesson they DID NOT LEARN from Vietnam. I mean, think about it: for example, let’s say the president of the company you work for has assigned a team of employees for a specific long term project. Several of the board members begrudgingly go along with the plan while privately expressing reservations as to if it is even necessary to each other. Over the course of time, when the long term project isn’t going so well, they start to repeatedly say “it can’t be done” or “we need to scrap this project and have these employees get back to their normal responsibilities.” After a while, those negative comments are going to have effect on morale and the people involved in the project are going to get uptight and edgy – and probably mad, too. It’s human nature. I have no doubt that it’s the same for many of our men and women fighting – they see people here fighting at home over the very reasons they were sent to Iraq in the first place, Democrats lying in speeches on the House and Senate floor about being ‘lied to’ and eventually it can and will affect morale.
When we win this war – and we will – it will be in spite of the incessant whining coming from the mouths of the Democratic liars in Congress and their cohorts in the MSM.
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Brian,
You’re right, what was I thinking?? Why take the word of a high ranking North Vietnamese official who basically said that the anti-war movement helped them win the war?? What does he know, anyway? That has absolutely no bearing on the Iraq war!!
Also, I work right beside the soldiers over here, and beleive me, they don’t look at the anti-war protestors and say “Oh, thank God someone is speaking out for me, they really care about me!!”
The bottom line is that Al Qaeda is doing the exact same thing the North Vietnamese did. Waiting and watching the anti-war movement do their job for them. If you can’t see the similarities, then I feel sorry for you, because you’re living in denial.
Ouch Brian Got cha there!!!
Nothing quite like 1st hand revelation, not processed garbage in, garbage out, like the MSM will give you. – Lorica
Brian,
You are the epitome of intolerance. It has always been your way or the highway with you. Maybe you ought to go back to DU or Daily Krap. Edited. –ST
Sister Toldjah,
You’re the one who doesn’t get it. You have absolutely no understanding of the situation. Your views are based 100 percent on what you want to believe and zero percent on what the facts are. You have yet to provide a single fact showing that criticism of the war is hurting our effort. You’ve decided that a North Vietnamese colonel is qualified to know what the morale of American troops was like during the Vietnam War. I assure you there were plenty of colonels in the Confederate Army that were confident they would win the Civil War when there were massive anti-war protests in the North. Guess what the outcome was. The Soviet Union did not allow any domestic opposition to their war in Afghanistan. How could they possibly have lost?
You continue to insist that opposition to the war is hurting the war effort. Can you please cite one case of Americans troops running away from the enemy or refusing to fight because people in the United States are opposed to the war? Can you cite a single battle that was affected by opposition to the war in the U.S.? There have been cases where soldier refused to follow orders because they were not provided with armored vehicles but I haven’t heard of soldiers refusing to follow orders because of domestic opposition to the war.
You said:
“BTW, NC Cop is THERE. You are not. I think most of us will accept his word over yours in terms of how what we say here at home affects our troops. He has one on one interaction with them. YOU do not.”
Here are some comments from Army Spec. John Kulick who was there and died there:
“Iraq was a hell hole” “When they swept a town, the insurgents would return just days later. Foreign fighters were allowed to slip easily through unsecured borders. Army leadership seemed disorganized and disconnected from the ground. Certain tactics such as 3 a.m. house raids, created a new generation of terrorists”
It’s very clear that what is hurting troop morale more than anything else is seeing how badly things are going. I saw a lot more opposition to the first Gulf War, yet I never saw higher troop morale than I did back then. It also doesn’t help that our troops were not given what they needed to win. There were not enough troops, not enough armored vehicles, not enough Arabic-speakers. Nearly three years after the invasion, the typical company of 150 men gets by with one or two Arabic-speakers. It’s very clear that the main problems in Iraq are a result of poor leadership, not opposition to the war.
NC Cop,
As I said in my previous post, I assure you there were plenty of colonels in the Confederate Army that were confident they would win the Civil War when there were massive anti-war protests in the North, but it did not turn out the way they expected.
You said, “The bottom line is that Al Qaeda is doing the exact same thing the North Vietnamese did. Waiting and watching the anti-war movement do their job for them. If you can’t see the similarities, then I feel sorry for you, because you’re living in denial.”
You are listening to too much conservative propaganda. Al Qaeda is not behind the insurgency in Iraq. Most of the insurgents are Iraqi nationalists who want the Americans to leave their country. Al Zarqawi and the foreign fighters have little support in Iraq. The main reason they are tolerated is because they are helping to fight the Americans and they are far more willing to die than the Iraqis are.
The main similarities I see between Vietnam and Iraq is the same poor leadership and the same mistakes. The borders have not been secured, the intelligence is very poor, soldiers are rotated out after they learn what they’re doing and replaced by soldiers with little experience, there is no strategy for winning, etc.. If you can’t see these similarities, you’re the one living in denial.
You’re lying Brian. You do not have a clue on this issue, none. That’s very evident in how you try to dismiss not only established fact but the thoughts of people who are CURRENTLY THERE – as if you being here trumps what people on the ground in Iraq say. LOL. You must have a mighty high opinion of your opinion to do that.
You cherry pick your ‘evidence’ to suit what you believe is a ‘fact’ – and you do it to justify the BS coming out of the mouths of the people in the DNC about how this war was based on “lies.” It’s shameless, but I’m not surprised you’re defending it. What we say here DOES affect troop morale and embolden the enemy whether YOU want to admit it or not! For every troop you quote who talks about what’s going on there, there are others who acknowledge the big picture and that is that there are a few problems, not just one – I never said that what was going on here was the sole cause of the problems there. Learn to READ what I WRITE. I said one of the problems is that troops cannot count on the support of people here like the people in your party who are denigrating the mission they are fighting. It’s PATHETIC – WAKE UP!
This is nothing more than the typical right wing intolerance of opposing views, where anyone who opposes the president is unpatriotic and harming our troops. Said Brian…. No Brian, we don’t think anyone with an opposing view is unpatriotic, just people like Kerry and Dean who continue to talk out of their a$$*S. They are unpatriotic as they side with anyone but America and all for political gain!
Sister is correct..this thread is yet another example of just how simplistic your limited thought capability is.
You know the real funny thing is that Brian’s North/South example really proves what we are saying. How many more Union soldiers were killed due to the FACT that there were anti-war protests in the north, making the Confederate Soldiers believe they would win. How much harder did The Confederate Army fight in battle to see their eventual hoped for result. The final result is not an indicator of what you are trying to say Brian. Also the reverse of this happened in Vietnam, didn’t it?? So the comparison makes no real logical sense, critically thinking.
Also I was talking to a Private Blow yesterday, and Joe said that things were better than the MSM ever would admit. /Sarcasm OFF
– Lorica
Come On Brian!!! Provide a link, we would never trust you to be truthful or not take things out of context. We don’t trust the President blindly like that we certainly wouldn’t trust you. You could be quoting the democrat underground, and we all know they are the most honest and believable group out there. Oppps /Sarcasm off again
Sister Toldjah,
If no one ever made a single statement critical of the War in Iraq, I doubt that things would be any different there than they are today.
If President Bush properly planned for the war and occupation and provided enough troops and resources to successfully carry out the mission, things would be a lot better in Iraq then they are now. There has been one bad decision after another, which is why things have become so bad. In spite of the many poor decisions made over the past two years by this administration, about the only thing I ever see you blog about regarding the war is to attack anyone who criticizes the president’s war policies. Your posts come across as more as partisan attacks rather than concern for the troops. I am very critical of the president because his policies are harming our troops. I hate seeing our young men lose their lives. It has nothing to do with partisanship. I was very critical of President Clinton for what happened to our troops in Somalia. I very strongly support all of troops in Iraq and anywhere else and I think they deserve much better leadership than what they have now. I see poor leadership doing a lot more to undermine the war effort than any criticism of the president.
Lorica,
My North/South example doesn’t prove what you’re saying. You’re putting your own meaning into what happened in order to support your position. You don’t know that the South would have fought any less hard if there were no opposition to the war in the North. In World War II there was absolutely no opposition to the war in this country but that did not stop the Germans from fighting very hard for every inch of ground right to the very end. The Japanese fought just as hard in Iwo Jima and Okinowa. If you’re going to insist that opposition to the war encourages the enemy to fight harder, then please explain why the Germans and Japanese fought so hard against the United States in World War II. Why wasn’t the Soviet Union able to defeat a small backward country like Afghanistan when their government did not allow any opposition to war at all?
If you want to see the article where I quoted the soldier, here is the link:
http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/13266919.htm
Brian,
Your dissent is the empty Bush is wrong, I want to cut, run, and hide under my bed meme that is juvenile and senseless. Look at what is going on and stop only taking Bush Haters in the MSM as Gospel. They are as partisan as you are, which is very partisan.
Brian Yes they all fought hard. Your article only proves what I was saying, your rebuttal does not in any way disprove what I am saying or inspires me to change my thinking. This extreme dissent from the left, is per people I have talked to that have been there, IN IRAQ, only hurting morale, and they feel it is encouraging our enemies. It is stupid thinking at best for a Senator of the United States of America to go to the extreme as some of these fools have. Accountability is one thing, but name calling is a wholely wrong in these times.
As far as Afganistan goes, PULEASE, the US funneled MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of dollars into the rebels there. Stinger missles just dont grow on trees in Afganistan. Again your argument is lacking logic. Nothing fights harder than a person on there home territory, that goes for Afgans or Germans or Japanese. But what about the Italians. They surrendered almost immediately. Also wasn’t it the German High Command that tried to Blow Hitler up in his bunker, so they could surrender to the Americans??? Yes some fighting will there. Japanese are much like our enemy now, religiously motivated. I do not feel I stand corrected in any way. – Lorica
Thank you for the link Brian, I was able to read it just now. It was a very interesting article. Showing the life of a wonderful man, and obviously an excellent soldier. I tend to wonder the context of the “hell hole” comment tho. Since it is quoted on it’s own I only have the writers word on it’s intended meaning. Also the paragraph below that does not nessarily back up the “hell hole” comment. He could of been talking about war in general in one, and about leadership of the National Guard in the other. Not that I am presuming to know what he meant, but the writer of the article seems to be leading us to where she wanted us to go. I will not disagree that Iraq is a hell hole, but so is all war. I consider it a great shame that evil in this world forces us to take up arms against it. Here is a quote from the article that was made just prior to Spc Kulick’s death.
“I think that the world is a much better place without Saddam,” he wrote on Aug. 4 to Michael Tremoglie, a Whitpain resident who corresponded with Kulick. “Someone needs to be the Police in this world and the only superpower is us. The 1800 soldiers did not die in vain, and the war was justified. It’s sad but I think the American people forget their feelings they had after 911.”
Which is exactly why I believe that the writer of the article took comments out of context. Sorry Brian, but this again does not prove your point and does lend credibilty to our belief that the MSM is ignoble in there writing. You see Brian Spc. Kulick said himself that he believed the war was justified. God Bless him for eternity, and May God Himself comfort those that Spc. Kulick left behind in this world. Always – Lorica
PCD,
I never said anything about cutting and running. What I am opposed to is the poor leadership our troops have been given. There has been one bad decision after another made by the president ever since the decision was made to go to war. I don’t know how you are unable to see this.
Lorica,
In 1990-1991 there was a great deal of opposition to going to war against Iraq. In spite of the strong opposition and protests against the war, the United States and our allies won a decisive victory against Iraq in a few months. The anti-war protests had little effect on our troops or the outcome of the war.
The reason why things are going badly in Iraq today is because of the many mistakes that have been made over the past two years, not because there are people in the United States that are opposed to the war.
The same thing you said about Afghanistan can be said about Vietnam. The Soviet Union funneled millions upon millions of dollars to the North Vietnamese and Vietcong. They also provided the North Vietnamese with advanced anti-aircraft guns and missiles.
In World War II, a few German generals didn’t represent the entire people. The German troops on the ground fought very hard right until the very end. I’m sure there are also many Iraqis on the ground in Iraq that will continue fighting against the American troops until they’re no longer there, regardless of what public opinion of the war is in this country.
I’m glad you got a chance to read the article. I also thought it was very interesting. I never said anything about whether or not the war was justified. I agree that the world is a much better place without Saddam. What I am opposed to is the way the war was planned and has been carried out. If things had been done right, Spc. Kulick, and a lot of other good men, might be alive today that aren’t. There is no reason why our soldiers should risk their lives to sweep a town, only to have insurgents return a few days later and there is no reason why foreign fighters should be able to easily slip through unsecured borders as Spc. Kulick said in the article.
Thank you Lorica for sharing your wisdom.
Brian wrote, “In 1990-1991 there was a great deal of opposition to going to war against Iraq.”
Yep. Mostly Democrats opposed to Pres Bush senior. Isn’t the pattern funny.
Brian wrote, “The anti-war protests had little effect on our troops or the outcome of the war.”
Thank goodness we were only freeing a country who had a functioning government and didn’t have to establish everything like Japan and Germany did after WW2 and Iraq did after Iraqi Freedom! We were able to kick butt and go! Next invalid criticism….
Brian wrote, “I agree that the world is a much better place without Saddam. What I am opposed to is the way the war was planned and has been carried out.
Thanks for making a point to agree to the obvious that many Democrats can’t come to say… that is that the world is a much better place without Saddam. . If you have a problem with the way the war was planned and has been carried out then level your criticism against the Pentagon because NO president plans wars and carries them out. They simply choose from the many plans that are presented by the Pentagon to the President. I assumed you knew that and that has made an — out of me.
I’ll have to now make sure you know that in the next 50 posts because your INCORRECT accusations are just that… INCORRECT.
We’ll be glad to have you on board for the war and FOR the U.S. finishing the job!
Brian, you are a liar. You want nothing done. You don’t think logicly and I doubt you do other than listen with your mouth flapping at full speed.
Thank You very much Bak. I will defer to your arguments to Brian, as they are a reflection of what I would of said. Thank You again.
Brian it is good to have you on board. To help you get the correct information and to help you know properly who you need to discuss this stuff with I am providing a line that will do just that. It is one of my personal favs as it helps me understand this war and several others.
http://www.army.mil/
Lots of good info there Brian, and Eye Witness accounts of stuff that is going on.
Lorica, Brian won’t read a thing there. In his biased mind, there is nothing factual thera. It is not like Daily Krap, the America Hating MSM (especially CNN) or Democrat Underground as a source of facts and news that Brian will accept.
Brian,
If you have a problem with the way the war was planned and has been carried out then level your criticism against the Pentagon because NO president plans wars and carries them out. The presidents simply choose from the many plans that are presented by the Pentagon to the President.
Just making sure you know this because you wrote, “What I am opposed to is the way the war was planned and has been carried out
Ohhh Brian, call me an eternal opptimist but I believe that people are curious by nature, and that truth is more powerful than deception. “I once was blind, but now I see”. I have only ever heard of 1 true atheist, everyone I have ever met came to know The Lord the closer they came to the end of their lives. Every One!!!
It matters little to me whether Brian does or does not believe what is on that website. I know the truth, and I know that we are doing the right thing. I cannot sit here on Monday morning and critize Brett Farve when I was not even in Wisconsin on Sunday. LOL
Peace – Lorica