Tonight’s Clinton/Obama debate in Texas

I just turned it on (it’s on CNN). Please use this thread as an open thread to comment. Should be interesting to see if Hillary can gain any traction.

Update: Looks like a big panderfest to the Hispanic population of TX.

Update 2 – 11:26 PM: By the accounts I’m reading so far, it looks like the debate was a draw, but Hillary got in the best part in her closing remarks, and BO looked like he was wishing he’d said the same thing. Here’s the video:

Was that her valedictory speech?

17 Responses to "Tonight’s Clinton/Obama debate in Texas"

Philip says:

February 21, 2008 at 11:57 pm

Hillary clearly demonstrated that She is the right nominee for President. Obama was again backtracking on his early mistakes such as meeting with Foreign leaders- now he talks about setting up the groundwork.

His UHC policy will impact his wifes role/job as she is paid excessively for what she does at a non-profit hospital and gets paid in excess of $300K.
Baklava says:

February 22, 2008 at 12:08 am

Philip made me laugh. You know that Hillary got paid in excess of $300K right?

oh.

Yes. Hillary for nominee for President. I think John can beat her easier…
Baklava says:

February 22, 2008 at 12:33 am

Philip the more I think about it thats a pretty judgmental statement.

What about more pay for women and minorities? Why is it your role to call something excessive? The liberal America brings these kinds of stupid issues up. I’m happy to see people earn a good living. If she does a good job and they determine that’s how much she should get paid then more power to her!! oh… and God Bless her!!
Cee says:

February 22, 2008 at 1:47 am

Just curious, I’ve noticed that when Hillary speaks, she raises her hand and brings up the level of her voice to show emotion. This looks very contrived. I never ever see real emotion in her speeches. When I see Mrs. Obama speak, I look in her eyes and hear in her voice, real human feeling. I am concerned that people don’t know how to look deeper into a person’s eyes and listen to the difference of words that are spoken mechanically. The rhythmical shake of her head after she speaks, the un emotional voice when she raises it just a little with her arm mechanically being poked in the air….I’m just really amazed that so many of us are so out of touch that we don’t know how to see, hear and feel between the lines that are so obvious and in front of our very noses.

Sincerity is so easy to see in Obama and calculation is so easy to see in Hillary’s words. So she seems confident when she is out there in front of people but why should that make people ignore the real signs that she is giving out. Anyone can talk, but there is something else that we need to judge by and so many of us seem to have lost that aspect of our selves or are just blinded and don’t care.

Hillary attacked and was very negative with Obama,, and now because her “handlers” told her “cool out” so many people are going to mindlessly pick her.
But what about the past and what she was saying? What about that really showing her character? Is it that we don’t know how to really think for ourselves? Are we really that childish that just because our emotions have been satisfied by a temporary change in her actions in a few minutes that we forget the character she displayed? she didn’t congratulate Obama until the next day, when it was traditionally supposed to have happened afterwards, I’m sure her handlers told her to “git-r done” that people didn’t like that kind of behavior.

The put on smile that she uses to mask her anger with Obama also is another things to watch. Obama was just being natural in his presence and there she was smiling uncomfortably. God, are we so shallow that we can’t look right into her eyes and really see and remember for more than a day about a person’s character?

I see her as an uncomfortable actor that DOES NOT believe in her heart the words she says simply by watching her body language and the non emotion in her voice. I wouldn’t even have a friend like that let alone allow someone to wield the power of the presidency.
Baklava says:

February 22, 2008 at 6:59 am

Cee, We listen to the words and look at the voting records.

Obama and Hillary are both offering socialist solutions.

Take from the producers and give to the non-producers.

We are here to say that it’s better to teach a man to fish than give him fish. It’s more compassionate.

Sure there should be programs for the non-able bodied and elderly but that isn’t what we are talking about here at all. O

Also, neither of these two have voted or spoken as strongly as conservatives do on national security or protecting this nation’s borders.

We can go on judging people by the way they speak (like Bush), but really it’s about the content of their speeches and their voting record (and in the president’s case – his nominations for judges, the decisions as commander in chief, and his proposals to Congress, and executive orders.

While there isn’t a conservative out there that agrees with Bush on everything, this president has put national security as a high priority and nominated some good judges, and made some decent tax cut proposals to Congress. His prescription drug program was much better than the Democrat version. His NCLB program has riled up the teacher’s unions because they don’t like having measurements done on them. I think the biggest disagreement with Bush is on the border.

You aint getting that with Obama or Clinton. So Cee, we’ll be voting for McCain here.

No earmark McCain as I’ll be calling him. Did you see how much MORE in contributions from lawyers and lobbyists both Clinton and Obama have taken over McCain? Have you seen their voting records on earmarks. Since McCain is at ZERO, mathematically Obama and Clinton have infinitely more earmarks.

Do you know what 56% of the federal budget is spent on? Entitlements. The only candidate talking about reforming them so that we can continue to do right by seniors and not go bankrupt is McCain. zero earmark McCain.
Cee says:

February 22, 2008 at 9:44 am

Please let me know then, what you think about him borrowing money and using the money he’ll raise as collateral from the public, which I here isn’t on the up and up and also that he is broke and can’t get out of the deal but will most probably try to do that. The only way that he can have his loan forgiven is by have a 4 member panel from the…..ratz, I forget their position and with which company……lets just say that there needs to be 4 people and there are only 2, wish I could remember exactly so I could ask you with a better idea of what is going on…..anyway there aren’t 4 people on the panel and so it is impossible for him to get out from underneath the loan, so if he backs out on it he can be punished but, the organization that prosecutes for this particular behavior isn’t in business anymore so he can actually get out of this loan, they say quite illegally by and not have to worry about getting into any trouble. Wondering if you know about this?
I thought that the rich people were getting all the “entitlements” the very rich.
in the end, non of these people are going to do much to change the political landscape, sorry to tell you , but, until we as a nation don’t need a mommy or a daddy to change our lives for us, we aren’t going anywhere.

No matter how much we believe, poor people, working class people, rich people, will still be exactly where they are. If you think I’m lying or stupid or silly or just not getting it, I can’t wait to see the look on you face when everything stays the same and yet “the daddy of our dreams” has been elected for the um-teenth time.

We are not mature enough to make decisions on the maturity of people.
You and I don’t know what Mc Cain has done behind closed doors anymore than we know what hillary and Obama have done, yet, I’m betting that you’d bet your life on Mc Cain. I am wanting Obama, but between you and I, its good to see the nation make a different choice for the first time. I don’t expect much out of Obama, the politics are to cemented in their own ways.

But imagine living a whole life of actually not being able to really look at a person and not know how to read them. Thats what most of us are doing.

What is it that we don’t see, that politicians are doing when no one is around?
Tom TB says:

February 22, 2008 at 10:41 am

We had 8 years of two Ivy-league law school graduate co-President socialists, and now we face the prospect of 4 years of the same? What is this, the Yale vs. Harvard football game?
Baklava says:

February 22, 2008 at 11:08 am

Cee wrote, “I can’t wait to see the look on you face when everything stays the same”

I’d rather everything stay the same. Unity is for North Korea, Cuba and Iran where if you don’t toe the line you are in jail. Working together is not always the best thing. I like that we can have dissent. And in my world I’d rather not take much more from the top 50% of income earners who already pay 97% of income taxes to give to the bottom 50%. That’s called income redistribution or socialism.

It punishes those who work to succeed and make a good living and provide a college education for their kids to reward sloth-like behavior and bad choices.

Your first paragraph Cee made no sense. Lots of pronouns so I don’t know WHO you are referring to. A bunch of WEAK stone throwing on your part. I’ve been a political astute person since my conversion from liberalism in 1991 and I don’t know what the heck you were saying.

Cee wrote, “ I thought that the rich people were getting all the “entitlements” the very rich.”

um. no. You could say it a few hundred times more. But you would be negligent and incorrect 100 times.

Respectfully Cee. Please ask questions if you don’t know the answers. We can inform you or you can look up the answers. I’m not trying to be mean here. I really hope you can move forward informed..
Cee says:

February 22, 2008 at 12:59 pm

I’d say that you are right. We were not born into a society that was created to be humanistic but rather business like. the religion if capitalism.
We were born into a country that is about business and for those people who think that people should be treated with kindness or caring, that the government or dentists or doctors OWE people any bit of compassion, well, these people who want this kind of understanding are wrong.

The country is not here to care for us, after all, we are only people and people don’t OWE each other anything at all. Those people who wine about fair treatment and that human beings are supposed to live up to some standard of compassion are the ones that are weak and wrong. No one OWES anyone anything because we were all born separate, came in alone.

The doctors and lawyers and dentists and drug companies and corporations are after all, people and they’ve worked hard fro what they have and others might not have worked hard, but the truth is, that you are absolutely right in your thinking.

Everyone is on their own and people need to stop relying on other people for anything. In nature animals kill and take what they need. Wolves run in a pack an the lead dog is God for the rest of the members. They destroy their victims because its in their nature to do so and without any regard for the weakness of compassion.

We are the same, humans, thats just a word, in fact, large groups of us allow horrible things to happen to others and even stand in denial that such things have happened. We are the same as animals in the way we need to follow a bigger dog.

So, it doesn’t matter in the long run who wins, who voted for what or who said what, we were born to server the wolf pack’s leader not the other way around.
This is all nature and anyone that thinks that there is really some more to it probably feels that the drug companies are being unfair. You and I know different though. No one deserves anything from those that have worked hard for what they have. I’m even surprised that they offer emergency care to those that need it. It is a drain on our society and don’t understand why people just don’t let those that can’t afford drugs or food, just die, after all, that would be the most intelligent way to keep profits on the rise. We are all about profits not being human, so hopefully people will just let go and not expect others to be there for them when they don’t really deserve anything that haven’t earned.
I like the republican’s ideas, they are much more honest and real about the truth of reality and why people were created in the first place.
Baklava says:

February 22, 2008 at 2:08 pm

Cee wrote, “The country is not here to care for us, after all, we are only people and people don’t OWE each other anything at all.”

You don’t have the right to make others pay for your “care” (a service – that costs money). While it’s fine to try to make the service available for the non-able bodied or elderly we are way beyond that discussion Cee. You are in a world of utopia.

BTW, Don’t ever question whether anyone here “CARES”. We all do. But you bring more suffering and more misery to this country (how caring is that) if you remove wealth and income from people (punish those making good decisions) only to transfer it and reward those making bad decisions.

Take for example a set of friends I had when I was married. My wife stayed at home. We sacrificed. We put money away even with one income for our kids college. We made good choices. The friends we had both worked, had their kids in day care and made comments about how the government should be paying for the daycare. They had a Toyota 4 runner and a new Honda Accord and were not putting away for their kids college or the rainy day because they were buying more than they could afford to. I’m sure they thought the government (from my paycheck) owed them their kids college funds.

Well how compassionate is that Cee? It’s horrible. People have a duty to be compassionate to one another by being considerate not expecting their neighbor and friends who are making good decisions to pay for their junk !!!

You want to cast aspersions on how you think anyone here at this site feels or thinks yet you don’t know anyone here.

How about debating the issues, reciting facts not junk that is negligently said and isn’t true. Treat us with respect not derision. We care – you care. Now how do we have the most people prospering and having a better life? By rewarding those who make bad decisions and punishing those who are making good decisions.
Severian says:

February 22, 2008 at 2:59 pm

Apparently the main difference between Cee and our old buddy steve is merely verbosity.
Severian says:

February 22, 2008 at 3:04 pm

“Here comes the orator! With his flood of words, and his drop of reason.” —Benjamin Franklin

Pretty good description of both Obama and Cee (minus the drop for both of course).
Cee says:

February 22, 2008 at 5:06 pm

It is not possible to have a better life in our present way of thinking. we are not ready as a group of people.
I”m not sure why you wrote “you don’t have the right….” You and I agree. I just said that but in a different way. I just said no one OWES anything to anybody.

Can’t have it both ways, either people live in a system where people are working together to make sure that all people do not live in fear everyday of their lives.
To look at Mc Cain and say “he’s the one is just as absurd as pointing to any of the other two. I PROMISE YOU, you will be just as frustrated in 4 years as you are right now. The fact that you can’t possibly imagine that what I’m saying could even remotely be true might how that you are just as ready to believe in one savior as the clinton and Obama followers are. How is it possible that you can actually believe THIS IS THE ONE, finally, after all the strife in the world in the US history, NOW…NOW, we will have the ONE that will bring us what we truly need.

The system we live in is based in nature. The animal desire of me first, survival, the stronger lives. Say what you will, but When one group gets their God, the other groups don’t. Very impossible situation. LEts say Mc Cain gives you your hearts desire, you’re happy, content, at peace, loving life, but with that possible outcome, there are millions with the exact opposite experience, lets say it goes the other way? millions are happy and you are living in fear each day, well there you have it no peace, no unity, no nothing. One wolf pack gets the meat the other pack goes hungry. Where is the caring then? If you insist that you’re way is THE way, then you care for your dreams to come true first and that is more of a wolf pack manner of perception.

The system here is for the strongest or most dangerous people. They come out on top, the sheep, the millions of sheep people are starving or living in fear constantly. How can people who perceive them selves to be the powerful become concerned about the sheep people? How can they even respect them?
These sheep people are week, they struggle at the bidding of corporations.

Know what? Thats not bad or good, its just the way of nature and for you to deny that means that you believe in the system that has dominated people’s perceptions about themselves and the world they live in.

The more you believe in the system the more change and unity of everyone will faulter. YOU have GOT the ANSWER and yet, 4 years from now, you will have the proof that it didn’t go your way and you know what you’re going to say about that? Probably not much cause you and most of us are used to this way of life.
Unfairness, pain, sickness, unhappiness, always waiting for that SOMEDAY.

We doom ourselves to living the wolf pack way of life, one group gets theirs because their way is the REAL way and all the other possibilities that people want to try, well, you and I both know about those kind of people, delusional, all the way, completely wrong,wrong, wrong.

Never in our life time are you and any of us to live in peace of mind, never, not the way you and I have been taught to believe in. So fine, no problem, I hope Mc Cain wins just so you can find out yet again, AIN”T gonna happen,not for you and not for anyone else. Please save what I have written and re read it in 4 years, so that you might not forget yet again in 4 years and do the same thing, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again….Cause thats what is waiting for you for the rest of your lives.
Cee says:

February 22, 2008 at 5:23 pm

You know, just forget what I wrote. It solves nothing, makes you probably feel pissed and creates dis-unity between us and that is a waste of time. I hope you folks get your dreams to come true. Wish you lots of happiness and to live in peace, have fun, feel that your lives are full or purpose.

Cee
Severian says:

February 22, 2008 at 5:30 pm

You know, just forget what I wrote.

Forget it? I wasn’t paying any attention to your ramblings in the first place.

But, unlike most leftists, I am happy, I have fun, and my life is full of purpose. It’s called being a conservative, try it…come to the dark side, you know you want to, and we have cookies!
Baklava says:

February 22, 2008 at 7:39 pm

Cee wrote, “you folks get your dreams to come true”

Yes. My dream is for a more prosperous nation where people are not punished for making good decisions and working hard. Lower unemployment rates means people are not dependent on the government. Higher earnings and less taken away means more that people can give to charity and a better potential for putting their kids to college.

The economic growth rates of countries with lower tax rates than the U.S. is higher than that of the U.S. It is economics 101 where a rising tide lifts all boats and not having a government that is so onerous and bloated and large that it takes and takes and retards economic growth.

Nobody is talking about caring less and not providing to the non-able bodied.

We are talking about the methods on how you get to a better and healthier nation…..

Bless you Cee for trying. We both care. We disagree on the methods..
NC Cop says:

February 23, 2008 at 8:44 am

It solves nothing, makes you probably feel pissed

Oh, cee. You’re hardly enough to get us “pissed”. On the contrary, you’ve been quite entertaining.

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