KVOA News 4 in Tucson reports:
Contrary to scenes of hundreds of thousands of united Latinos marching across the country in support of immigration reform, a sizable number of the ethnic group opposes the marches and strongly objects to illegal immigration.
But their voices have largely been muffled by the massive protests, which will continue Monday as tens of thousands of demonstrators are expected to take to the streets of Tucson, Phoenix and other cities nationwide.
They are voicing their support of a Senate bill that would give an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants living in the country a chance for U.S. citizenship.
“That’s the objective of the marches — to give the impression that all Latinos are for allowing the illegals to become citizens,” said Phoenix resident Lionel De La Rosa. “Well, I’m not.”
The 71-year-old Texas native and Vietnam veteran said he favors punitive measures more in line with the immigration bill passed by the U.S. House in December that would have made it a felony to be in the United States illegally.
“I’m for that 100 percent,” he said. “As far as my Latino friends are concerned, they all agree on this.”
A 2005 survey by the Pew Hispanic Center found that Latinos in general have favorable attitudes toward immigrants and immigration.
But when it comes to illegal immigration, significant numbers have negative views of illegal immigrants.
The survey found those feelings are strongest among middle-class and middle-age U.S.-born Latinos.
And though 68 percent of Latinos said they believe illegal immigrants help the economy by providing low-cost labor, nearly a quarter felt illegal immigrants hurt the economy by driving down wages.
U.S.-born Latinos looked even less favorably toward illegal immigrants than foreign-born Latinos.
More than a third of U.S.-born Latinos said illegal immigrants hurt the economy, compared with just 15 percent of foreign-born Latinos.
Latinos also are divided over whether to allow illegal immigrants to earn citizenship. the survey found.
Though 88 percent of foreign-born Latinos favored allowing illegal immigrants to earn citizenship, a smaller number of U.S.-born Latinos, 78 percent, said illegal immigrants should be allowed to do so.
Encouraging, but the study was conducted in 2005 - it’d be interesting to see some more recent numbers.
Hat tip: Carol Platt Liebau
Read the latest on the immigration protests over at Michelle Malkin’s (see also here).
Related Toldjah So posts:
- SF Mayor once again vows to ignore the law
- Senate immigration bill stalls
- High school baseball coach: “We gots 2 show the U.S. that they aint (expletive) with out us”
- Figures - Howard Dean accuses Republicans of “scapegoating” Hispanics
- Victor Davis Hanson on illegal immigration
- Clearing up the myths on the immigration reform bill
- Hanging our flag upside down, underneath the Mexican flag
Count me in as one American citizen of Latino origin who doesn’t agree with this nonsense.
Can’t people follow the laws of this country in order to come here in the first place? Why do they have to flaunt the fact that they broke the law and that they’re proud of it? Not to mention, they want to be in the front of the line, “because they said so” and they’re entitled to get ahead of those who actually do all the paperwork and the run-around…
Oh, no! I’m not standing for it!
I though this was a country run by the rule of law, not by the whims of men!
Comment by newton @ 4/10/2006 - 4:06 pm
Bless you, newton. As a descendant of Irish immigrants from the last century–who followed the rules and got their citizenship LEGALLY–I agree with you 100%.
Comment by libertarianobserver @ 4/10/2006 - 4:35 pm
There is an awful lot of ranting over the amnesty or probationary proposals and the rule of law. I can understand how people want to respect the rule of law and not reward law breakers. However, I would like to know what the alternative to amnesty is?
This problem needs a practical solution, not a political one. What are the options?
Make it even more illegal to be in the country by making it a felony with no amnesty - I’m not sure how this solves anything. It is currently against the law to be in the country illegally and that has solved nothing. I see no feasible way to jail or deport 11 million people. If you’re going to argue for this, I would like to hear you would realistically fix the problem. Let’s not fall into the liberal mind-set of complaining about policy without any solutions of their own.
Status Quo - I don’t see anyone happy with this, but given the state of affairs in D.C. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is the outcome.
Find a way to give immigrants a legal entrance into the country - I hear an argument that these people should get in line like everyone else and enter the country legally. I’m pretty sure if that was a viable option, then we wouldn’t have the problem we do today. The truth is that people in Latin American countries cannot get work visas or tourist visas to get into the U.S. Getting one is like winning the Powerball lottery. The reason most immigrants come here is to put food on the table for their families. Asking them to apply for non-existent visas while going hungry is not realistic.
Build a wall - I am all for this. For Mexico AND Canada. Not a virtual wall, but a real, solid wall. If China can build a Great Wall, we can build a Good-Enough Wall. It would be a great jobs program for the “newly documented workers” if you are concerned about them mooching off the system. However, this only solves the problem going forward. Also where there is a will, there is a way. Illegals will find someway into the country but it should be lessened dramatically.
My solution? All of the above.
First, create a guest worker program with the illegals already in the country with background checks.
Second, build an impenetrable wall with the guest workers.
Third, grant some sort of amnesty. Call it whatever you want to make you happy. I’m not opposed to waiting periods, fines, background checks, etc. Make them residents without any chance of citizenship if you must punish them somehow.
Fourth, make it a felony for businesses to hire illegal workers once the guest worker program and wall is in place. If immigrants have enough legal visas allocated to enter the country, there will be no incentive to break the law. If you are offended by the flags they fly, then let them integrate into society and their patriotism will blossom.
WWRD? (What Would Reagan Do?) Remember Reagan granted amnesty to about 3 million illegal immigrants. He just forgot about the wall.
Looking forward to your responses.
Comment by Scott Allan @ 4/10/2006 - 5:10 pm
I apologize for the mis-spelling of your name in my trackback comment. I read your blog all the time and should have known better. I got caught up being amused by the obvious pun.
Comment by Scott Allan @ 4/10/2006 - 6:15 pm
I am just wondering how long it will take these illegals to realize that if/when they do become legal, they will lose their job to an illegal crossing the border..
I mean really!, at that point they just won’t be needed because there will be someone cheaper coming across the border
Comment by Pam @ 4/10/2006 - 6:35 pm
No prob, Scott -once I saw you edited your post, I edited the trackback to fix it
Comment by Sister Toldjah @ 4/10/2006 - 6:36 pm
To those who believe that “there are American workers who won’t do *those* jobs,” I have one question (ok, more than one):
Do you support a caste system, such as that in some parts of India, in which automatic entry into the system necessitates a permanent second/third class status?
Doesn’t the promotion and support of lower class wages and doing “those” jobs contain an inherent racist and classist concept?
And lastly, isn’t that concept anti-American?
Comment by Chick @ 4/10/2006 - 7:24 pm
chick- you need to be a bit more clear on what you are asking. As it stands, we now know that some of the jobs that Americans won’t take are: working in the fields, nannies, lawn care businesses, construction, nursing, hotel employees, truck driving etc.
Comment by Pam @ 4/10/2006 - 7:35 pm
I have a little different take on the immigration and border security issue.
Primarily, I want our border secured. Build a double fence from San Diego to the mouth of the Rio Grande and patrol it night and day with armed soldiers, vehicles, helicopters, and unmanned spy planes. No compromises on that issue.
On the other hand, I have a lot of sympathy for so many of the illegal immigrants. I worked with a church ESL program for quite a while and most of the people that I dealt with were illegal immigrants. I became good friends with some of them. They fled a corrupt country, Mexico, where no matter how hard they worked, they could never get ahead. Most Americans just would not believe the grinding poverty that so many Mexicans live in.
If I lived in a tin and tarpaper shack in Ciudad Juarez and couldn’t feed my family, would I illegally emigrate to the United States? I have to say that my answer is yes.
Stingray: a blog for salty Christians
Comment by Stingray @ 4/11/2006 - 12:14 am
The whole issue of immigration is one that is complex and involves many issues.
The simplistic solutions from the extreme right and left will never work; there are enough laws on the books right now to enable effective control of the problem the real issue is the will to enforce the laws already in place.
As I have stated in other forums one real way to effectively control the problem is to cut off the supply of illegal jobs, this would encourage people to get in line and immigrate legally.
The scumbags that want a cheap maid or gardener or picker of crops are the ones that perpetuate this inequitable system. They in turn need to be the ones to pay the price. Prosecute those low lifers and most of the problem will go away.
The heat and fire generated by this issue is, I believe hiding the true tragedy of this issue that is the human toll that the whole thing is generating, from the people who loose their lives crossing the borders, to those that are persecuted once they get here to those that are suffering in sub standard conditions of work. Additionally at the other end the costs to the whole community in providing health care, education and law enforcement, these are cost borne by us all.
Prosecute the employers first, stop people from risking their lives crossing and make available a workable immigration system that is the way to end this whole mess.
In My Humble Opinion
http://www.swagy.com
Comment by Swagy @ 4/11/2006 - 2:33 pm
While a lot of people will tend to agree with you Swagy, I want to put in my two cents as a business owner.
You can’t have employers be the enforcer of immigration laws. We (business ownwers) can only do our due dilligence and obtain the information that we are supposed to. If the “illegal” immigrant is using fake ssn’s then the business owner can only follow through with hiring (or not hiring for some other reaons).
I don’t hire anyone with my business so no need to think I’m saying anything that I’m not.
Additionally, there are whole bunches of square miles in CA that are inhabited by “illegal” immgigrants. I work for WIC here in CA and know this because WIC provides benefits to non-citizens. You don’t need to show anything to receive benefits except a photo ID and proof of income (to verify that you are 185% below poverty level). In those square miles of residences there is no large employer employing these people. They have become pretty self sufficient and own their own businesses and are a whole communicty on to themselves.
It is often thought that Walmart was one violater. But this isn’t true. It was the contractor who did Walmart’s floors who was the hirer of illegal immigrants. Not only was Walmart held liable to the tune of 11 million dollars (when Walmart had no legal way of knowing who was hired by the other company) but to protect themselves Walmart now doesn’t use a contractor to have their floors done. They hire employees so they can do the due diligence themselves.
What am I trying to say? Sure there is some aspect of employers that could be INCLUDED as part of a COMPREHENSIVE illegal immigration bill but it would be a small part and would only have SOME impact.
Comment by Baklava @ 4/11/2006 - 3:08 pm
Bak- aren’t the people demonizing Wal-Mart, the very people that are supporting illegal immigration? I’m thinking of a person and the name rhymes with shrillary
Comment by Pam @ 4/11/2006 - 4:58 pm
I think so Pam. Because not only should America just let anyone in and give them citizenship but those people should receive full on benefits and full time (unionized) employment as well. Screw national security.
Screw the law. Except for the ones that say Bush can’t surveille the enemy (oh. I mean wire tap the enemy. oh. I mean wire tap citizens of this country). Then the law matters even though Bush is following the law because he isn’t doing what the liberals characterize he is doing.
Comment by Baklava @ 4/11/2006 - 5:55 pm
Excellent point my friend!
Comment by Pam @ 4/11/2006 - 9:26 pm
Republicans just killed the immigrant felony provisions in the Congress.
Not Dems.
GOP.
You guys really don’t know who is on your side anymore. You trash the ‘liberals’ relentlessly. Then the GOP shifts positions, and you are left scratching your heads.
It may be that you are not getting all the info by watching FOX only.
Comment by solitaire @ 4/12/2006 - 10:01 am
It still is against the law.
And we will deal with whoever doesn’t deal with illegal immigration. Whether they be the left or the slightly left of center Republicans.
I wonder how you will react when we finally have a working conservative majority in Congress (hint- we don’t yet except for on taxes)
And yes, we fight liberals with our words because they are the ones making the case for no borders (Act Now to Stop War and End Racism A.N.S.W.E.R. & Doctors without borders) and they are the ones (Ted Kennedy) out there with the protesters speaking. Did you hear Ted Kennedy addressing the crowd solitaire? Or did you miss that?
BTW, I don’t know anyone here who watches Fox only. As a typical liberal you’ll continue with inaccurate accusations because you can’t offer ideas and solutions I suppose. ST herself just offered up a WaPo article. She frequently links many news organizations. I can’t remember the last one that was a Fox News one. But I suppose it makes you feel better to attack and make false allegations. Doesn’t it? Big man solitiare. Not debating.
Comment by Baklava @ 4/12/2006 - 11:14 am
actually the felony provision is one the democrats have been insisting on since this charade began.
Comment by Karl @ 4/12/2006 - 11:17 am
They need a better one.
Several Amendments by Republicans were not allowed even to get to the floor because of Reid.
There was also seveal loopholes in that bill that needs to be corrected.
I need ot find a copy of what the bill consisted of, and post the loopholes found in the bill that benefited illegals staying in this country.
Needed is:
* Border Enforcement.
* Lock down the border tight to stop the flow of illegals.
One this has happened THEN you should worry about what to do with the illegals in this country. By trying to decide what to do with illegals before you even stop the flow is moronic.
Again, you don’t let the Dam contine to flood the city and sit there trying to figure out how ot pump the water out of hte city…that is stupid.
* Revise the immigration procedures for coming into America.
* Felony, Fines and Jail time for Businesses that knowingly employee illegal immigrants.
* Redo / revise the way businesses check citizenship for new hires. Make it so fraudulent SSN and Drivers Licenses cannot get a pass.
* Redo / revise the Social Security Number system. It seem to be to easy to duplicate, making it easy for Identity theft and illegals to obtain work.
* Get more people of the borders for enforcement. Get more people in INS for investigations of businesses / corporations that hire illegals, that deal with the millions that push through paperwork, to track immigrants, backgrounds, medical, movement..ect.
There is alot of things that need to be done. Not just locking up CEO’s as steve would say. There is ALOT that needs to be done to revise and revamp the immigration system.
If it was easy, it would have been done by now.
But it doesn’t help having politicans pandering to illegals. Which causes me to worry, since if they are pandering to a group that cannot vote, his means they have a plan to give illegals the US citizens right to vote.
Think about it.
Comment by sanity @ 4/12/2006 - 12:37 pm