| NYT | 0 | |
| Miami Herald | 0 | |
| Don Surber | 0 | |
| AP | 0 | |
| WaPo | Obama Urges Groups to Stop Attacks [on Dems who oppose ObamaCare] |
0 |
Audacity of Truth
"Change" You Can Believe In:
"Nixon didn’t try to do that. They couldn't control (the media). They didn’t try. [...] What the hell do they think we are, puppets?"
- Liberal opinion writer Helen Thomas, describing the Obama admin's penchant for heavily scripting public appearances & press conferences - 7/1/09
The Abramoff Democrats
Gateway Pundit and UNCoRRELATED both have up posts devoted to recapping the close ties between disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff and Democrats. These are stories you won’t see widely reported in the MSM, for obvious reasons.
Maybe those stories should be forwarded to Howard Dean, who needs to be reminded that Democrats were part of this scandal, too. I’m sure he’ll look into it, right after he gets out of hot water with the DNC after leaving them with less than $5.5 million in their campaign coffers next to the GOP’s $34 million.
AM Update: I forgot to hat tip my friend Fat Tone, who I’d also like to thank for turning me on to the UNCoRRELATED blog. Good reading there. Thanks, FT!
Related Toldjah So posts:
RSS feed for comments on this post.
144 Responses to “The Abramoff Democrats”
Comments
Blogads
Disclaimer: The views expressed on this blog do not necessarily reflect those of ST's advertisers, nor do their opinions necessarily reflect ST's. Stats
The American Prospect hired a non-partisan firm (Dwight L. Morris & Associates) who is a for-profit organization that has conducted many surveys for both parties. The study (linked below) shows the following:
http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=10924
1.) Tribes were giving money to Democrats before becoming clients of Abramoff
2.) After they became clients of Abramoff they averaged 9% less to Democrats and 135% more to Republicans.
Conclusion: There is no evidence that Abramoff directed the tribes to donate any money to Democrats and that the evidence is compelling that he directed money to Republicans.
3.) Jack Abramoff has not personally given a single cent to the Democrats, remember he was the President of the College Republicans.
These are statements of fact supported by examining publicly filed records of before and after amounts contributed by Jack Abramoff’s client list.
I served in the military 18 years and can’t believe I kept serving 10 years after I could have made a lot more money on the outside, just to watch the end of all accountability to the facts by Republicans.
I know I am wasting my time presenting facts to people who do not want to be inconvenienced by a good hard look at themselves, but in the spirit of holding on to my antiquated notion of what America used to be, I feel compelled to try.
This is a Republican scandal, get used to it, embrace the facts, and be part of the reform so this doesn’t happen again to either party.
Julien
LINK
Sarge’s list of Republicans implicated/indicted/pled guilty/ in various scandals forgot to mention Bill Frist under investigation by the SEC and Justice Department and there is also more complete list of people who are guilty in the NH phone jamming scandal with James Tobin:
As of March 10, 2005:
Charles McGee plead guilty in federal court “to conspiring to make anonymous calls to annoy or harass. He also was fined $2,000 and ordered to perform 200 hours of community service. He faced up to 5 years in prison and a $250,000 fine. … McGee resigned in 2003 after police alerted federal prosecutors to the phone-jamming operation. He denied any wrongdoing at the time. He later admitted paying $15,600 to a Virginia telemarketing company that hired another business to call get-out-the-vote phone banks around the state.” [6] (http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2005/03/10/former_gop_party_head_sentenced_to_seven_months_in_phone_jamming/)
“Allen Raymond, who was president of the Alexandria, Va.-based GOP Marketplace LLC at the time, pleaded guilty to hiring a firm from Idaho to make the calls. He was sentenced earlier this year to five months in prison.” [8] (http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2005/03/10/former_gop_party_head_sentenced_to_seven_months_in_phone_jamming/)
As of October 10, 2005, “James Tobin, who then worked as the Northeast political director for Bill Frist’s National Republican Senatorial Committee and the RNC, is now awaiting trial for his role in the scheme.” [9] (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2005_10_09.php#006721)
On December 15, 2005, James Tobin was convicted on telephone harassment charges “for his part in a plot to jam the Democrats’ phones on Election Day 2002.” Tobin was acquitted by the federal jury on “the most serious charge against him, of conspiring to violate voters’ rights.” Tobin will be sentenced March 2006 and “could get up seven years in prison and $500,000 in fines.” [10] (http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/G/GOP_PHONE_JAMMING?SITE=JRC&SECTION=POLITICS&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2005-12-15-20-16-27)
Lets come together and all agree on at least one thing. There are a lot of corrupt politicians. Alot.
Heck, let’s agree on two things! Most of them are Democrats.
filed under: instigation, goading
Julien,
1) Is that illegal. No.
2) Is that illegal. No.
Conclusionary statement: Doesn’t pass the Critical Thinking required to pass a Critical thinking class in college. You simply cannot underline cannot make the conclusion you made based on the fact you have stated AND the evidence is that yes Abramoff did steer money to Democrats (which isn’t illegal). What is illegal is what Kent Conrad and Harry Reid are being looked at for.
3) Direct Contributions aren’t illegal. Why do Democrats keep saying this? Because in the fog of war, misinformation is key to winning. The other sentence concerning the President of the COllege Republicans is McCarthyism/withhunting exampled [Have you ever been or been associated with a College Republican].
I served in the military for 6 years and can’t believe that julien wouldn’t want all who acted criminally to not be held accountable. Is that what you want? For conservatives here, we want ALL who should be held accountable to be held accountable no matter how partisan Democrats want it to be.
I know I am wasting my time presenting a reasoned/logical argument to julien who doesn’t want to be inconvenienced by a good hard look at him/her self, but in the spirit of holding on to my antiquated notion of what America used to be, I feel compelled to try.
This is a scandal. “Get used to” the fact that anyone who should be held accountable will be held accountable because the left doesn’t control information anymore and certainly doesn’t present logical arguments. “Embrace the fact” that all who should be held accountable will. And “be part of the reform so this doesn’t happen again to either party.
fslim- I don’t think anyone here is denying that there are Republicans guilty of taking illegal funds..what we are talking about is the fact that somehow the democrats have absolved themselves of all guilt, which is not the case at all.
Those that keep saying that this is just the reps should keep in mind that a handful of democrats did return money.
As for your 6:23 post….
For the record, Are you stating Julien that no Democrats have ever been convicted/indicted/investigated? Let’s just talk about the last year if that’s what you want to limit it to. Are you saying it for the last year?
Checkmate – as your 6:23 post is partisan and wanders away from the specific “scandal” of Abramoff.
fslim. Look at the earlier post of mine. My claim talked about the 100% pie of hard money dividing by number of donors.
It is true. Your focus on Abramoff hard money donations does NOT negate my statements of fact.
If the Sister and most of you posters are correct, I expect to see just as many Dems as Reps indicted for corruption. After all, a republican-led Justice Department would like to have a few Dems to take down, right?
However, since Abramoff is a life-long movement Republican, a Bush pioneer who helped lead his transition team, the republican responsible for staffing the Interior Department and a proponent of the K-street project, I don’t expect to see any Dems in trouble. Maybe if Abramoff hadn’t given every dime of his own money to Reps and directed his clients to give less money to Dems, I would feel differently.
I confined the Abramoff post to Abramoff. Some Democrats gave money back from the tribes, but again there is no evidence of money being directed to them from Abramoff via the tribes.
The evidence is overwhelming that the Abramoff scandal is confined to the Republicans. If you want to get into a larger systemic discussion of corruption I think that both parties are immensely corrupted by corporate interests.
That being said, we have never seen a scandal on this level with the implications of quid pro quo in the history of our nation, both in dollar amounts and the legislation that followed. I am not the one making the claim that he can show cause and effect, Jack Abramoff did in his written statement in the plea bargain.
No Democrat is under investigation or a party of interest in the Jack Abramoff investigation. Please show me evidence otherwise and I will be happy to change my mind.
Finally, in response to Baklava accusing me of not using my critical thinking skills, you attacked my thinking and character, but you did not rebut the facts presented and only misdirected the argument. Most of the money is not illegal, the apparent direct connection between the money and the actions by the members of Congress after receiving the money is.
I say “most” in the paragraph above because some of the contributions in the form of golf trips to Scotland, event tickets, and direct payments by lobbyists for hotel bills are illegal.
Several Democrats did receive payments of those kind last year, but not from Abramoff, and the totals from the Democrats are dwarfed by the Republicans.
It is so sad to keep hearing the statements over and over again “it’s not illegal to take the money” without the acknowledgment that the money is merely a marker for the crime that was committed later.
If I have said anything factually incorrect, again, show me where I am wrong and I will change my mind.
You continue to make false statements.
I attacked your argument. I don’t know your character. I used a lot of your same words in your last 2 paragraps also.
I dealth directly with your irrelevant McCarthyism type arguments. Additionally, Direct money is not illegal.
Please understand again that Democrats (and yourself) using the direct money argument only does a disservice and does NOT implicate guilt or innocence (as I was trying to say). Please understand also that you were using McCarthyism type arguments with respect to the College Republican President comment.
It doesn’t matter if it was FROM Abramoff or FROM his associates or from Bill Gates or Micky Mouse. Your paragraph about “several Democrats did receive payment of those kind last year” IS THE ISSUE not whether it was direct or not.
Hope this helps. All who need to be held accountable should not just what you seem to be saying (Republicans only).
Again you are misdirecting the argument.
I have not made any “direct money” argument, you are misdirecting again. If this scandal was about just taking money, there would be no investigation, for the 100th time, it is what happened after the money was accepted.
The Jack Abramoff scandal is Republican only. A Republican lobbyist giving money to Republican congressmen with direct legislative actions to show for it.
You keep saying the money is not illegal, but you fail to address the result of the money. Oh by the way, the money is illegal on the part of the Congressman if it was the reason for his action.
If there are Democrats involved in this, then they need to be held accountable just like anyone else, but none are under investigation, none are implicated.
Tell me which Democrat is a person of interest in this matter, by the Justice Department.
There are at last count, six Republicans who are implicated by the Justice department report, no Democrats.
When you acknowledge that the Abramoff scandal is a Republican only scandal, which is a fact, we can have a dialogue about other issues. You might just agree with some of my thoughts about current Democrats.
But you are so invested in your party being right that you are committing a disservice to your country.
If you let the Republicans off the hook on this scandal, what do you think the Democrats are going to do if they regain the Senate? Think they are going to behave much better? You Republicans have to do the right thing for our country or it will just continue to get worse.
Well gentlemen take care. I am writing this from a Starbuck’s 1,300 miles from my wife and toddler boy, both of whom I miss immensely.
Everyday most of get up and go to work, we make ethical decisions, do not steal from our employers or customers, and are just desperately trying to either survive or get a little ahead and face ourselves in the mirror each day.
Fighting among ourselves about our party being right or wrong is such a joke. Very few of those people represent or care about us, they are engaging in a chess match for political superiority while our troops are pawns on a real battlefied.
Take Care
“Dobson neglected to mention–and has yet to discuss publicly–is his own pivotal role in one of Abramoff’s schemes. In 2002 Dobson joined a coterie of Christian-right activists, including Tony Perkins, Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, to spearhead Abramoff’s campaigns against the establishment of several Louisiana casinos that infringed on the turf of Abramoff’s tribal clients. Dobson and his allies recorded messages for phone banking, lobbied high-level Bush Administration officials and took to the airwaves. Whether they knew it or not, these Christian soldiers’ crusade to protect families in the “Sportsmen’s Paradise” from the side effects of chronic slot-pulling and dice-rolling was funded by the gambling industry and planned by the lobbyist known even to his friends as “Casino Jack.”"
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060220/blumenthal
God’s party huh?
So tell me, all of you “this is a bi-partisan scandal” fantasy land dewllers, how many democrats were part of the Delay/Abramoff K-Street Poject?
The fact that so many keystrokes have been expended trying to rationalize something this cut-and-dry shows the lengths some will go to in order to distort reality to match their agenda.
It’s really very simple: The Abramoff scandal is THUS FAR a Republican one. Have Dems ever done anything unethical? Yes. Are some engaging in unethical acts now? Possibly.
But, this particular scandal has SO FAR proven to be a Republican one. Whether any Abramoff clients gave to Dems is irrelevant, b/c that, in itself is not illegal.
To suggest otherwise or attempt to implicate Dems is unfounded, desparate, denial of reality . Not only that, it’s irrelevant with regard to taking responsibility for your party.
And to say “we just want all involved to be punished” is a thinly veiled attempt to again imply that the Dems are involved and deflect/spread the blame. You think it’s giving you the moral high ground, but it’s just a cop-out that puts you on the low-road.
Why is it so hard to admit that your party screwed up and leave it at that?
thatnotsoniceguy wrote, “But, this particular scandal has SO FAR proven to be a Republican one.”
So let’s just say we conceded that at this moment in time it is (which it isn’t) a Republican scandal. So what? What’s your point? WE ALL (CONSERVATIVES ANYWAY) WANT ANYONE WHO COMMITTED A CRIME TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. You liberals and Democrats are going to see a government that shrinks finally and will be kicking and screaming because of it and you don’t see that coming for some reason.
It’s hillarious because that’s what matters to conservatives.
Conservativism matters not an individual personality. We are getting stronger because of this “scandal” that is supposedly just “Republican”.
And again… What’s your point? Care to elaborate? Or are you going to go off the deepend as liberals do calling this a culture of corruption that Republicans have. Because that’s a tactic that’ll lose in this debate.
You have no point I think other than to keep saying something incorrect in our eyes but correct in your eyes over and over and over again as if what? To gain political points?
I don’t care about individual personalities.
I care about the fact that I as a conservative LOVE THE FACT that it is VERY apparent now that there are 27,000 registered lobbyists (true number) lobbying 30,000 Congressional staff members because BIG GOVERNMENT IS THE PROBLEM
thatnotsoniceguy wrote, “But, this particular scandal has SO FAR proven to be a Republican one.”
So let’s just say we conceded that at this moment in time it is (which it isn’t) a Republican scandal. So what? What’s your point? WE ALL (CONSERVATIVES ANYWAY) WANT ANYONE WHO COMMITTED A CRIME TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. You liberals and Democrats are going to see a government that shrinks finally and will be kicking and screaming because of it and you don’t see that coming for some reason.
You have no point I think other than to keep saying something incorrect in our eyes but correct in your eyes over and over and over again as if what? To gain political points?
I don’t care about individual personalities.
I care about the fact that I as a conservative LOVE THE FACT that it is VERY apparent now that there are 27,000 registered lobbyists (true number) lobbying 30,000 Congressional staff members because BIG GOVERNMENT IS THE PROBLEM
It’s hillarious because that’s what matters to conservatives.
Conservativism matters not an individual personality. We are getting stronger because of this “scandal” that is supposedly just “Republican”.
And again… What’s your point? Care to elaborate? Or are you going to go off the deepend as liberals do calling this a culture of corruption that Republicans have. Because that’s a tactic that’ll lose in this debate.
Sorry I posted twice ST. I moved my entire paragraph to the wrong place and had to rearrange the post and post again.
“I care about the fact that I as a conservative LOVE THE FACT that it is VERY apparent now that there are 27,000 registered lobbyists (true number) lobbying 30,000 Congressional staff members because BIG GOVERNMENT IS THE PROBLEM”
But you could have a lobbyist argue for privatization. That’s not a big government problem.
Seems the government has been lobbyed more for subsidies and special tax breaks and special projects versus privatization.
Lobbying is not illegal. Neither is big government. But I’d be HAPPY to see people pay attention to the fact that there is TOO MANY people trying to get a piece of the taxpayer dollar pie.
This is great for conservatives!!
BTW, I’ll put in my two cents for 6% of my Social Security contributions going towards a nest egg I can call my own!!!
Baklava: “I don’t care about individual personalities…”
Yet, you seem to be fighting so hard to implicate Dems specifically with misleading statements like: “1/3rd of the over a billion that Abramoff had distruted went to Democrats”.
And why does it matter? Oh, I don’t know. Maybe you should ask the rest of the folks in your party who are working so hard to implicate the Dems. Start here.
You know, it’s funny. I was able to find that page pretty easily on the RNC site, but I had trouble locating the one that talks about the Repubs that were involved and what the party plans to do about it. Can you help me find it?
“On Friday, 21 of Georgia’s 34 Republican state senators _ all Cagle supporters _ signed a letter urging Reed to withdraw from the race, saying his involvement in the Abramoff scandal “threatens to impact the entire Republican ticket.”"
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/03/ap/politics/mainD8FHTD1G9.shtml
Huh, but they didn’t mention democrats.
Oh right. Maybe that’s because this is a REPUBLICAN scandal.
Edited. –ST
Funny I read what Baklava says and understand fully.
The majority may be certain repulicans and he does not deny this, but he is just pointing out that this corruption is not limited to just republicans, even if the democrats are trying to act like the crap don’t stink, they too will be having fall out from this, whether you wish to believe it or not.
thatguy wrote, “Yet, you seem to be fighting so hard to implicate Dems specifically with misleading statements like: “1/3rd of the over a billion that Abramoff had distruted went to Democrats”.
What is misleading about it. There are charts and graphs and actual numbers to back up my quote. And my goal is that everyone who broke the law is held accountable. If that happens to be Dems too so be it. You are the one saying no it’s only Republicans…. The partisanship comes through with you. Me? I don’t care!! I care that everyone who broke the law is held accountable.
BTW, Thanks for the link. I didn’t see it before because I never go to that site. Did you read it? I just did. It looks like you/Democrats are plain hypocrites. That’s what that showed. And the trips are still going on the link showed. Democrats have cojones.
I’m just playing with ya. Actin’ all partisan like ya 
You still going to go on with the partisan Dems are squeaky clean rhetoric? ???
Baklava: “What is misleading about it. There are charts and graphs and actual numbers to back up my quote.”
It’s the implication that’s misleading. Given the context in which you mentioned it, it comes off like an attempt to tie the Democrats to the Abramoff scandal. No facts (as of yet) support that. That’s why I said it was misleading instead of wrong.
Baklava: “BTW, Thanks for the link”
Hey, I’m here for you. But seriously, I’m still waiting on you to return the favor and link to the page where Repubs claim responsibility for themselves. I could respect that so much more.
And strategically, it makes more sense: Distance the party from the “bad apples” instead of making all Repubs seem complicit.
Anyway, it seems I inadvertently whipped you into a frenzy with that link and the point I was making with it sneaked by you.
Which was in answer to your original question…”why it matters”.
It matters b/c the party that’s in power has a huge scandal, and rather than openly acknowledge it and earnestly work to restore the public trust, they spend more time trying to deflect/spread blame through a “cloud-the-issue” campaign.
So, their response is to leap into denial and try to make this a Dems issue. It has to make you wonder how well that big cleanup that WE ALL earnestly desire will work out.
nice guy wrote, “the party that’s in power…
The party that isn’t in power has criminals also bud. Some have been convicted (cough Traficant).
Not working to deflect and spread blame. Working to make sure partisans like you don’t get away with ACTING like the Dems are squeaky clean when they aren’t. Honesty is here and not with you.
I’m not leaping to denial as you accused in your last paragraph (nice pattern of libs accuse accuse accuse), I’m the one saying that anyone who’se committed a crime should be held accountable.
I buy groceries from Safeway. I am therefore a client of Safeway. Now if I gave you money, you would have received money from a client of Safeway. What does that mean? NOTHING! Would that implicate you if Safeway were involved in a scandal of some sort? According to FOX, maybe, but in reality no. Did Democrats get LEGAL campaign contributions from clients of Abramoff? Yes. What does that mean? NOTHING. It doesn’t implicate them in any criminal activity or imply in any way involvement in any kind of abuse of power that is going on here. All those lists and numbers about Democrats who “got money from Abramoff’s clients” are MEANINGLESS. Even if they did get money directly from Abramoff, which not one Democrat did, it doesn’t mean they did anything illegal. Shall we go back and see if Monica Lewinski ever kissed a Republican to make that a bi-partisan scandal? The pubs are ridiculous and really reaching here. Either Dems did something illegal or they didn’t, and apparently the only illegal activity is on the Republican side of the isle.
One thing the wingnuts haven’t mentioned is that Abramoff is and has always been a right-wing Republican activist. He was the chairman of the College Republican National Committee, the chief contributor to Delay’s K-street project, and part of the Bush Cheney transition team in 2000. He’s the guy who said “It is not our job to seek peaceful coexistence with the left, our job is to remove them from power permanently.” Why on Earth would he help any Democrats ever? No matter how much the ditto-head talking-point hacks want to spin it with meaningless post-hoc Kevin Beacon connections, it IS a Republican scandal. Period.
Also, the media seems to be completely ignoring the worst crime Abramoff committed. He wrote and produced the movies Red Scorpion. That alone means he should be locked in a basement somewhere and studied like Hannibal Lecter where he can’t harm anyone again.