in the wrong era. Soundly refuting
liberals online since 2000. NOTE: That is NOT
me pictured at left. :)
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Audacity of Truth
"Diplomacy":
"People are saying what in the world is going on with North Carolina, we look like Mississippi." - NC Gov. Bev Perdue (D) on the passage of Amendment One, 5-11-12
The Abramoff Democrats
Gateway Pundit and UNCoRRELATED both have up posts devoted to recapping the close ties between disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff and Democrats. These are stories you won’t see widely reported in the MSM, for obvious reasons.
Maybe those stories should be forwarded to Howard Dean, who needs to be reminded that Democrats were part of this scandal, too. I’m sure he’ll look into it, right after he gets out of hot water with the DNC after leaving them with less than $5.5 million in their campaign coffers next to the GOP’s $34 million.
AM Update: I forgot to hat tip my friend Fat Tone, who I’d also like to thank for turning me on to the UNCoRRELATED blog. Good reading there. Thanks, FT!
Related Toldjah So posts:
RSS feed for comments on this post.
Andrew, just look at your Freudian slip. You called Reid the MAJORITY Leader. Reid is a foul ball in the game of life.
“I don’t see that in the Washington Times piece. What makes you say that? This is a similar committee to the one that delay was trying to thwart in the house. Why do you get the idea that its so easy for the minority party to run it?”
Because they, the Dems with their fellow travelers in the MSM, have already made a mockery of the ethics committee. Remember when the Republicans wanted to change their rules to match the Democrat rules? That is, you don’t have to resign your leadership posn or committee chair position if you are only indicted knowing that indictments are often used to accomplish an end regardless of proof or guilt. The Dems don’t have that rule, the Reps wanted to change it, as they knew the Dems were playing fast and loose with ethics violations (DeLay and their partisan Texas prosecutor). The whining, wailing and hue and cry from the Dems was deafening, and the MSM was right there cheering them on, all the time not mentioning that the Dems don’t have a similar rule. Really dishonest to call the Republicans dishonest for wanting to play by the same rules the Dems do, when the Dems were unwilling to change the rules. Also, the Republicans wanted to change the rules so that you had to have a majority of members of the ethics commitee vote to recommend action be taken, but the Dems insisted that anyone be able to raise charges outside the committee. The idea was to make it impossible for one partisan party to rake people over the coals if there wasn’t enough evidence to prove anything, if there was evidence of wrongdoing, you should be able to get at least one of the opposing members to support action. But the way the Dems left it it’s open for any partisan manipulation they want. Although, if the ethics committee gets a hold of Reid, he may well wish that rule had been changed.
The Dems have been manipulating the ethics commitee for quite a while.
KC wrote, “You thikn an investigation by a GOP congress of the democratic majority leader won’t get you facts? ok.
Ok then… In your mind the situation will never be resolved unless ony Republicans are held accountable? Just a question….
In my opinion. The investigation will turn up some facts and facts will be published and we can pour over them all we want. Your partisanship of Republicans bad and therefore we can’t trust that investigation is a reflection on your writings not ours. We want all wrongdoers to be held accountable here…. Are you ok with that?
**KC wrote, “You thikn an investigation by a GOP congress of the democratic majority leader won’t get you facts? ok.**
Sorry, dude. I never said that. You sourced that quote to the wrong person.
**And I suppose you get all you facts from the NYT? Oh I forgot about those unpartisan letters written by Democratic Reps that are pure facts.**
Yeah, in particular I like Judy Miller’s work.
“Andrew, just look at your Freudian slip. You called Reid the MAJORITY Leader. Reid is a foul ball in the game of life.”
What does ‘foul ball in the game of life’ mean?
” Remember when the Republicans wanted to change their rules to match the Democrat rules? ”
That wasn’t an ethics committee thing, but an internal rule of each party.
“The idea was to make it impossible for one partisan party to rake people over the coals if there wasn’t enough evidence to prove anything, if there was evidence of wrongdoing, you should be able to get at least one of the opposing members to support action. But the way the Dems left it it’s open for any partisan manipulation they want. Although, if the ethics committee gets a hold of Reid, he may well wish that rule had been changed.”
Actually the dems wanted to prevent the committee from being a partisan rubber stamp. Precisely what it shouldn’t be.
No, andrew, the Dems wanted the committee to continue to be of use to them to sling mud and cast aspersions on people who they know they couldn’t get to legally. The committee is evenly divided between the parties, requiring that at least one member of the opposing party sign off before attempting to destroy a persons career isn’t “preventing the committee from being a partisan rubber stamp.” The current rules allow the Dems to get together and decide that so and so has been too effective, so we’ll knock them down a notch or three, by pushing this false charge here. (For some reason the Republicans never seem to get their ducks in a row to do the same thing to the Dems, unfortunately.) If you can’t convince at least one member of the opposition that your charges have merit, it’s probable they are spurious and partisan and shouldn’t be filed at all.
**The Dems don’t have that rule, the Reps wanted to change it, as they knew the Dems were playing fast and loose with ethics violations (DeLay and their partisan Texas prosecutor).**
I’m glad that you guys have already found DeLay not guilty. Hilarious. Too bad that Jack is singing, and Tom’s name is likely to come up.
And I’m sure you all know that the “partisan prosecutor” has just as much history with indicting Democrats.
KC, were you born yesterday? Yeah, he indicted Democrats, Democrats that were political enemies. Sheese, how naive do you have to be to be a leftist anyway? And considering that Delay was indicted for a law that didn’t even exist when the alleged “crime” took place, that doesn’t really give much credence to the charges.
To say that there is a level of equivalence between Jack Abranmoff and the Democrats is like to trying make the case that James Carville was tied deeply to the Republican party.
The fact is that no Democrats received money directly from Master Jack. If you are going to go down the path that some of his clients gave money to the Dems then GWB would have to give back well over 100,000 that was directed by Abramoff.
The fact that corruption exists on both sides of the aisles is unmistakable. For audacity and sheer scope nothing approaches the Abramoff scandal. He was a kingpin in the Republican party. To try and pretend differently is laughable.
“The committee is evenly divided between the parties, requiring that at least one member of the opposing party sign off before attempting to destroy a persons career isn’t “preventing the committee from being a partisan rubber stamp.”"
Its called making it bipartisan. To republicans that is toxic. To democrats it makes sure the committee is actually sanctioning ethics, rather than partisan, violations.
“Leftist”?
Public figures prosecuted by Earle (take note of the ONE political rival):
* Texas Supreme Court Justice Don Yarbrough (Democrat – 1978) – Texas Supreme Court Justice Don Yarbrough was convicted of lying to a grand jury and forgery. He gave up his seat and was sentenced to five years in prison.
* Texas State Rep. Mike Martin (Republican – 1982) – Martin, who represented Longview, pled guilty to perjury and did not run for re-election.
* State Treasurer Warren Harding (Democrat – 1982) – Harding pled no contest to official misconduct and did not run for re-election.
* Travis County District Attorney Ronnie Earle (Democrat – 1982) – Earle once brought charges against himself, rather than recusing himself and seeking to have a special prosecutor appointed, and secured a conviction, and paid a $212 fine after his campaign filed required campaign finance reports a day late. [15]
* Texas Attorney General Jim Mattox (Democrat – 1985) – Mattox, a political rival of Earle’s,[16] was aquitted of bribery and went on to win re-election.
* Texas House Speaker Gib Lewis (Democrat – 1992) – Lewis pled no contest to charges of failing to disclose a business investment after a plea bargain. He did not run for re-election and was fined $2000.
* Texas State Rep. Betty Denton (Democrat – 1995) – Denton was convicted of listing false loans and contributions on campaign finance reports and was sentenced to six months probation and fined $2000.
* Texas State Rep. Lane Denton (Democrat – 1995) – After funneling money from the Texas Department of Public Safety Officers Association, Denton was convicted of theft and misapplication of fiduciary property. He was sentenced to 60 days work release, six years probation, and fined $6000.
* Texas State Board of Education (SBOE) Members David Bradley (Republican), Bob Offutt (Republican), and Joe Bernal (Democrat) – Earle initiated a criminal investigation against three SBOE members in 2002. Earle accused the board members, who are elected from districts in Texas, of violating the state’s “Open Meetings” law when the three met for lunch at a restaurant in Austin, Texas on the day of an SBOE meeting. The law requires a public meeting when elected bodies assemble in a quorum of three or more persons to conduct business. The SBOE members responded that they were simply eating lunch. Earle turned the investigation over to Travis County Attorney Ken Oden, who in turn indicted the members on misdemeanor counts. [17]
Andrew, you have a serious reading comprehension problem. The Democrats didn’t want it to be bipartisan, they were the ones voting to keep it setup so that they could raise ethics issues without the support of any of the opposing party’s members on the committee. They opposed requiring bipartisanship. Sheese!
Sharp as a tack and twice as flatheaded…
And look, little KC has learned how to cut and paste! We’re so proud!
Mikeypaw wrote, “The fact is that no Democrats received money directly from Master Jack
We dealt with this earlier. Receiving money directly or indirectly is not a crime. Deal with the crime and we’ll all hold every criminal responsible whether Democrat or Republican. Are you interested in that Mikey?
Andrew wrote, “To republicans that is toxic.
You’re able to read minds?
**And look, little KC has learned how to cut and paste! We’re so proud!**
And look! Severian has learned that when he doesn’t have an argument, it’s best to comment on irrelevant matters!
I would have just pasted a link, but I didn’t figure your attention span would permit you to scroll far enough down the page to find the relevant information.
***We dealt with this earlier. Receiving money directly or indirectly is not a crime. Deal with the crime and we’ll all hold every criminal responsible whether Democrat or Republican. Are you interested in that Mikey?***
And for the moment (and the last couple of months) the only proven wrongdoing has been Republican?
So I gues we’re finally in agreement on that?
KC, I’m sorry, but I’m not allowed to argue unless you’ve paid…
Next time, try writing something cogent and understandable, not just cut and paste a ton of BS without references or context.
Sheese, if this is what passes as “proof” no wonder you leftists all believe whatever DU and Kos tell you. I don’t have the time or inclination to go over the history of Texas Democratic politics for you, but it’s one ugly playground. And Earle has been right in the middle of it for years.
Facts once and for all:
Democrats did not receive any money directly from Abramoff. Republicans did.
This likely means two things:
1. While Republicans have already been exposed for criminal wrongdoing, Democrats haven’t.
2. Furthermore, Democrats are unlikely to be caught up in this because they did not get any of that direct money, which is what the Republicans in trouble are in trouble for (because the direct monies were used to curry favor and buy votes).
KC, is that you? I’m getting an identical IP# with two different names. — ST
Thanks, Severian. I happen to live in Austin, though so I know a bit about Texas Democratic & Republican Politics.
I also know that Earle is somewhat of a crackpot, although I wouldn’t say a partisan one. Personally, I don’t very much like what I know about the man.
However, it was this investigation, afterall, that opened the Abramoff can of worms – which will probably in turn lead to other, related charges against DeLay.
I’m familiar with the (valid)legal defense in his first indictment re: Ex Post Facto laws, and I think he’ll beat it unless something else comes to the surface. But if you’re going to deny that DeLay is one of the most crooked, dirty politicos out there, then you, my friend need to catch up on your reading.
KC wrote, “And for the moment (and the last couple of months) the only proven wrongdoing has been Republican?
Gosh for the moment you just posted a list of Democrats. The moment’s got you going huh.
**KC wrote, “And for the moment (and the last couple of months) the only proven wrongdoing has been Republican?
Gosh for the moment you just posted a list of Democrats. The moment’s got you going huh.
**
Um..not quite sure what you meant, but at least you sourced the quote to the right person this time! You get a cookie!
**KC, is that you? I’m getting an identical IP# with two different names. — ST**
Sorry, that was me.
Nice town Austin, though it’s a tad too left leaning, especially compared with the rest of Texas, kind of an anomaly brought about by colleges. You should be well aware then that previously in Texas, it wasn’t a question of Dem vs. Rep, it was a case of liberal Dem vs. moderate/conservative Dem, and it was these wars that Earle contributed so enthusiastically to.
Delay is no more crooked than most politicians, which is why they are generally viewed, both parties, somewhat less benignly than used car salesmen and reporters. If he’s going to be sent up the river, I’d prefer it be for something truly wrong, not the manufactured charges of a nutcase like Earle. Abramoff will lead where it leads, and the chips, Dem and Rep, can fall where they may.
Earle’s attacks on Delay are of the most partisan and disturbing kind, being a cynical manipulation of the current Republican rules in order to remove a political enemy from a position of party and congressional power based on innuendo and weak accusations. If the Republican rules didn’t make it required that Delay step down, I don’t believe Earle would have filed any charges. This is as dirty and partisan an escapade as any I’ve seen. Delay may well be guilty of something, I believe if you dig hard enough into any politicians background you’ll turn up dirt (no one has mentioned Pelosi’s $35K fine lately, and then there’s Hillary’s campaign understating the value of a party), but Delay is being prosecuted not because he’s dirtier, but because he’s “The Hammer,” i.e. he’s effective.
“Andrew, you have a serious reading comprehension problem. The Democrats didn’t want it to be bipartisan, they were the ones voting to keep it setup so that they could raise ethics issues without the support of any of the opposing party’s members on the committee. They opposed requiring bipartisanship.”
You’re right. They opposed 1 party being able to veto investigations.
KC wrote, “Um..not quite sure what you meant
That you are caught up in the “moment”
Trust me there are and will be Democrats and Republicans prosecuted… .whether for Abramoff or not. 1/3rd of the over a billion that Abramoff had distruted went to Democrats. Direct contributions are not illegal. Not sure why you keep saying, “direct”.
My reference to Texas Republican politics is of course to the TRMPAC redistricting debacle.
Yes, this used to be a Democratic state with it’s share of problems. I’d argue that it’s much worse off now.
And on the first indictment against DeLay, I’d agree with you, except that I think Earle is just sloppy, and no real point was served in getting DeLay to step down.
However, DeLay’s pay to play strategy, as well as mega kickbacks and rotating favors to and from corporations and financiers, qualify him as the dirtiest politician around.
See below for some nice summaries:
Hurwitz and the S&L scandal
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-banker8jan08,0,1764103.story?coll=la-home-headlines&track=morenews
DeLay and The Mariana Islands’ non-power plant
http://dailydelay.blogspot.com/2005/04/northern-mariana-islands-abramoff.html
Abramhoff was president of the College Republicans.
He was on Bush’s transition team (Interior Department).
He got jobs for his people in the White House, including Safavian, who was arrested for trying to obstruct the investigation. Now why would they do that if they had nothing to hide?
Oh no, this one is ALL YOURS, Sistah. The GOP owns this one.
JC wrote, “Abramhoff was president of the College Republicans.
Therefore the college repubs are all guilty. Have you ever been or ever associated with a college republican [referring to McCarthyism for you political newbies]
JC wrote, “He was on Bush’s transition team (Interior Department).
Therefore all on the transition team are guilty! Have you ever been or been associated with the transition team [McCarthyism]
JC wrote, “Oh no, this one is ALL YOURS, Sistah. The GOP owns this one.
Let’s just cancel by populism the investigation against the Minority Leader (Democrat) Harry Reid based on JC’s infallible reasoning technique…..
I think we see a pattern here. Conservatives want all wrongdoers held accountable with due process. What is it that non-conservatives want?
**I think we see a pattern here. Conservatives want all wrongdoers held accountable with due process. What is it that non-conservatives want?**
Same exact thing.
AND to get it through your thick skulls that this particular scandal is a republican scandal.
Seriously, what is it going to take to get you to see this for what it is? The media obviously doesn’t. How much more black and white does it get? Abramoff’s clients gave LESS money to Democrats after he began representing them. LESS implies that they were giving the Dems money BEFORE Abramoff even entered the picture.
Writing letters is not illegal, and it’s a common practice.
Republicans have been implicated in illegal activity.
Democrats have not. And until they are, it is dishonest of the MSM to massage facts in order to conflate the Dems with this mess.
Like I said before, I’d be willing to take wagers on no Democrats being indicted. Is there a web site that facilitates such things?
Let’s clean up Washington (he he, yeah right!), but let’s be honest about the level of discourse in this country and start calling things what they are.
***Trust me there are and will be Democrats and Republicans prosecuted… .whether for Abramoff or not. 1/3rd of the over a billion that Abramoff had distruted went to Democrats. Direct contributions are not illegal. Not sure why you keep saying, “direct”.***
~sigh~ for the last time, let me put this in as clear a manner as I can. Let me educate you on what’s going on:
1) While direct contributions are not illegal in and of themselves, it is an important distinction that Democrats did not receive any direct contributions for three reasons:
a)Abramoff made direct contributions to Republicans. He did not make direct contributions to Democrats.
b)These direct contributions ARE the monies that were used to curry favors and influence legislation.
c)By extension, it is easy to see that since all the illegal activity surrounded the direct contributions, and that Democrats did not recieve any direct contributions, it is unlikely that any Democrats will be implicated in any illegal activity pertaining to Abramoff.
And finally, in order to put it in even starker relief for you, Abramoff’s clients were donating to Democrats well before and after being represented by him. Money to democrats went down subsequent to hiring Jack in nearly (if not) every case. This means that Abramoff/Scanlon convinced them that the Republicans were more likely to help them.
you people crack me up … there’s links from Abramoff to the dems?
What’s next, WMDs in Iraq?
Links between Saddam & Osama?
Intelligent design is science?
Keep it up … you’re just too funny.
Right-wing Socialists, will learn the meaning of extortion and bribery very shortly. Peace
Steve,
I think you have that wrong its left-wing Socialists look in the dictionary. If the Right-wing learns extortion and Bribery it will be from Democrats who have been using both for years. Continue to get your news from The Daily Show.
Continue to get your news from The Daily Show.
Comment by Jim M
Ironic you should say that, and it sounds like you’re trying to make it a put down.
3 separate content analysis studies have shown that Daily show viewers are better informed, and test higher on tests about current events and facts than any other news viewing audience.
Fox viewers tested lowest.
Oh. It’s those facts that are getting in the way for you again, huh?
Not enough truthiness for you?
I thought you republicans were supposed to be tough on crime??
You should change you party’s nickname to The Grand Ole Docket:
Jack Abramoff – Pled Guilty – To Be Sentenced March 16th for SunCruz fraud
Gus Boulis Murder Trio – Indicted – Trial Date To Be Set March 23rd
John Colyandro – Indicted – Trial Pending Appeals Decision
Duke Cunningham – Pled Guilty – No Future Court Dates Scheduled
Tom DeLay – Indicted – Trial Pending Appeals Decision
Jim Ellis – Indicted – Trial Pending Appeals Decision
William Jefferson – Named by Prosecutors as Unindicted Coconspirator
Adam Kidan – Pled Guilty – To Be Sentenced March 1st for SunCruz fraud
Thomas Kontogiannis – Named by Prosecutors as Unindicted Coconspirator
Scooter Libby – Indicted – No Trial Date Set
Chuck McGee – Pled Guilty – Time Served
John T. Michael – Named by Prosecutors as Unindicted Coconspirator
Bob Ney – Named by Prosecutors as Unindicted Coconspirator
Brent M. Pfeffer – Pled Guilty – To Be Sentenced March 31st
Allen Raymond – Pled Guilty – Appeal to be Decided February 2nd
Warren RoBold – Indicted – Trial Pending Appeals Decision
Tony Rudy – Named by Prosecutors as Unindicted Coconspirator
David Safavian – Indicted – Trial Set To Begin April 3rd
Michael Scanlon – Pled Guilty – No Future Court Dates Scheduled
James Tobin – Found Guilty on Two Counts – Sentencing is Set for March 21st
Neil Volz – Named by Prosecutors as Unindicted Coconspirator
Mitchell Wade – Named by Prosecutors as Unindicted Coconspirator
Brent Wilkes – Named by Prosecutors as Unindicted Coconspirator
Yeah Sarge, people who watch Fox News probably believe that Bush didn’t lie! The bastards!
Said Sarge- 3 separate content analysis studies have shown that Daily show viewers are better informed, and test higher on tests about current events and facts than any other news viewing audience.
Fox viewers tested lowest.
Oh. It’s those facts that are getting in the way for you again, huh?
Please provide the link..or did you get it from the daily show?
KC wrote, “Same exact thing.
AND to get it through your thick skulls that this particular scandal is a republican scandal.
THen that wouldn’t be the “same exact thing” as you with your thick skulls comment are saying it’s a “republican scandal” and we conservatives want “ALL” wrongdoers held accountable. Again, What do you as a non-conservative want?
Then you went on talking about wagering… Wager all you want but the partisan talk here is coming from you. The people interested in ALL wrongdoers being held accountable is conservatives in general.
Hey Sarge if you are or were in the military, you are a funnyman. That research was done was on Talk Radio Listeners. The Daily Show is on the Comedy channel maybe that is why you are funny something rubbed of on you cause it wasn’t real world facts.
***THen that wouldn’t be the “same exact thing” as you with your thick skulls comment are saying it’s a “republican scandal” and we conservatives want “ALL” wrongdoers held accountable. Again, What do you as a non-conservative want?
Then you went on talking about wagering… Wager all you want but the partisan talk here is coming from you. The people interested in ALL wrongdoers being held accountable is conservatives in general. ***
Partisan talk? How about the truth. Name one Democrat indicted….I didn’t think so.
Same exact thing = all guilty parties being indicted. Right now, it looks like a Republican scandal. Period. I see that all logic is lost on you. Sorry.
Daily Show viewers are more informed. Here’s your link:
http://www.dailypennsylvanian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/11/19/419da865ee9b4
OK, let me just take two hours out of my life so I can go find that info for you.
I think that the denizens of pajama-load media can wipe the Cheetos dust off of your cocktail-weenie-esque fingers and dig around for it yourselves.
Anyway, as I recall, I think it was CJR, Annenberg and Pew that did the work.
Now go do your own work.
I see there are no more comments or put downs from the “right” tonight. Maybe they’ll bite their tongues until a Democrat is implicated. I find it hilarious that you all think this is really going to result in some sweeping indictment campaign with Democrats involved too.
Let me, in closing, pay lip service to the new political correctness and pledge my support to our competent leaders, even though they still don’t have enough body armor, we still don’t have a legitimate exit plan, the powers that be love to talk the talk on lower taxes equalling more gov’t revenue, our “liberal” MSM faithfully echoing conservative talking points,and to the supporters of the “majority” still unable to grasp that the current scandal is with, of, and about Republican corruption. But I think it’s more of “The Big Lie.” ‘
Never admit you’re wrong.
Never cede any point to the opposition, no matter how logical and valid it may be.
Flame on, idiot right.
Two comments:
1. As a first time visitor, I have been pleasantly surprised to find a site with virulent opposing views and relatively little personal attack. Cool.
2. This is a Republican scandal. Follow, as they say, the money. First, there is NO Democrat who received any money directly from Abramoff. Not one, not one penny. The only donations that matter here are the illegal ones, and those came from Jack. Finally, even the legitimate contributions show Republican fingerprints; the following chart reflects Abramoff’s influence on his client’s contributions:
pre-Jack post-Jack % increase
Dems $82,857 $183,654 122%
Repubs $77,831 $436,451 461%
(Source: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2006_01/008099.php).
This is all Republican. You can repeat “yeah, but Democrats too” as often as you want, but that doesn’t change the reality that today, corruption is a core Republican value.
Holy Shite! I just figured you all out again! When it’s someone from your party that is obviously in the wrong, we need to focus on the corrupt institution!
Case in point: Jack Abramoff and his Republican influence and blacklist peddling. This is symptomatic of ALL of Congress, we say!!
BUT, when a representative of the other party has an affair, and then lies about it, it’s indicative of a culture of corruption and lies afflicting the opposition party!
Too bad about:
http://www.geocities.com/jacksonthor/knowrsex.html
http://www.dkosopedia.com/index.php/Republican_Sex_Scandals
http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-ryan26.html
http://www.pww.org/archives98/98-02-14-3.html
http://www.americaheldhostile.com/cheating.html
What is with you people?
Oh, I nearly forgot: then there’s Jeff Gannon.
And fake commercials, and sympathetic “experts” being paid to endorse the party line on MSM talk shows.
And obstruction of justice charges and resignations in the White House.
And..well, Hell! You’d think we’re talking about the Clinton White House.
Do I need to elaborate? Use Google instead, please.
KC,
Rest assured your sanity is in tact and you are still on planet earth.
You may have entered a parallel universe however. This is a very, very strange place.
Looking around on this site, I see that it’s completely impossible to get any real concession from the representatives of the “right” here. Instead of just saying, “yeah, our guys screwed up” in the face of facts and unassailable logic, there’s a systematic response. This is always employed to some degree:
1. Attempt to deflect/spread blame (i.e. the dems did it too, etc.).
2. Attempt to cloud the issue/stray off topic. Red herrings and strawmen are extremely popular here. This includes latching on to some minute detail in your post while ignoring the substance. Like they’re trying to win on a technicality. LOL.
3. Assail the adversary (“leftist”, “lefty”, “meme-spreader”, “liar”, etc.) By lumping you in with a group, they can start the talking points (all while accusing opponents of employing talking points–see #6).
4. Ask for facts, then ignore them when given (or pretend as if your facts are somehow flawed, without offering evidence as to how). They also do this when you offer sound logical constructs.
5. Pretend to have facts that you don’t have without revealing them.
6. Accuse their opponent of doing exactly what they are doing (i.e. crazy-making).
7. Repeat. Repetition is key. It helps them to convince themselves they’re correct, and seeks to wear down their opponent. That’s why you end up repeating yourself a lot when debating them. You’re simply responding to their repetition.
8. Silence. If all else fails and their position is completely and painfully untenable, they fall silent.
It’s hard to know how much of this is strategy to frustrate their opponent, vs. sincere delusion, but I suspect it’s more of the latter. I truly believe they can’t see what they are doing and how much it damages their credibility, as well as the progress of this country.
In any case, it all adds up to a virtually impenetrable bubble in which they operate. They do NOT like having their world intruded upon, and react violently to opposing views.
In fact, the weird thing is that the more you point out flaws in their position, the more entrenched they become. They have no interest in alternative views for moving this country forward. They truly think that if you dissent, you are “aiding the enemy”. You are unpatriotic or simply a “Bush-hater” (which is actually the same thing to them). When Bush said “You are either for us or against us”, they got the message loud and clear.
It is sincerely frightening, but it is very enlightening. It explains how some Bush supporters can give this administration a universal pass, even when his words completely contradict his actions or reality. I honestly don’t know what he could do that would cause them any significant concern.
Anyway, your argument was airtight. Consider their silence your victory. It’s as good as it’s gonna’ get.
KC there is a good reason nobody’s paying attention to you, you are ranting after midnight and you’re a liberal and could it be that some people have to go to work in the morning. Your link to “The Daily Show” viewers is typical liberal BS this dimwit compared viewers of The Late Show and The Tonight Show there was no mention of FoxNews or Talk Radio Listeners. That’s because if they used people that watched or listened to real news it would show the viewers of the Daily Show to be in bottom percentile of the politically informed. The reason you don’t see any more put downs is the more you ramble on the more it shows your ignorance.
Can anyone explain what Sarge is blithering on about? Or is that another liberal that has lost his last marble?
KC,
Are you going to apologize to us when Democrats start getting indicted on this? If not, you are a hypocritical partisan.
KC and TNG, I dunno if it ever occured to either of you, but the people who post here have lives outside of this blog. Just because the two of you hover closely by your computers eagerly awaiting responses from people here doesn’t mean it’s going to happen on your time frame. In case you haven’t noticed, this thread has garnered quite a few comments from the hated right so it’s not exactly as though the right as this blog have sat back on their laurels without comment.
Incidentally, if either of you have that big an issue with people at this blog, and want to start talking about people here as though they were idiots, I would appreciate it if you’d take that type of moonbatty nonsense elsewhere. For the life of me I have never understood why people would hang out at a blog that they complain about everyone supposedly being idiots and ignorers of the truth on. If we’re so beneath you, find another pasture on which to graze, ‘k, because my patience with you both is getting very thin.