NSA Surveillance Program ‘scandal’ – update

Regarding the NSA ‘scandal’, victory could be on the horizon for the President – read my post at Blogs For Bush for more info.

Related Toldjah So posts:

37 Responses to "NSA Surveillance Program ‘scandal’ – update"

Baklava says:

March 3, 2006 at 1:39 am

I like this line, “The Democrats have got to be wondering where their massive campaign to undermine the President (for political gain of course) on this issue went wrong.

It’s what happens when you cry Wolf too many times. To liberals/Democrats (yes I’m generalizing) everything is a scandal/crisis/illegal. There is no simple disagreements on solutions towards acheiving the end result. There is accusations of wanting to “steal oil”, “break the law”, “incompetence”, “making terrorists”.

This information war is just gearing up. It’s been going on for over a decade and will continue to get worse with liberals hurling accusations and conservatives defending and setting the record straight. The legacy media keeps finding their influence dwindle more and more as their agenda is so obvious.
forest hunter says:

March 3, 2006 at 2:46 am

I love it when a plan comes together Baklava!
Pam says:

March 3, 2006 at 9:02 am

Bak- did you notice that changes made with regard to the oversight? My CM, Pete Hoekstra, seems to have orchestrated a happy solution for all…what changed? What am I missing here? (serious question by the way)
solitaire says:

March 3, 2006 at 10:44 am

I’m having a hard time believing that you really want Bush to break any law, do whatever he wants, and that’s ok. It seems to be what you’re saying. One link after another excusing Bush for spying on Americans, lying about it, breaking the laws that Congress made to stop it, … what’s up? When did the GOP decide that laws don’t matter, Congress doesn’t matter, courts don’t count, public opinion be damned?
Baklava says:

March 3, 2006 at 10:54 am

Pam, I don’t know. You’re more informed on that than me I think

solitaire continues on with his liberal pattern that I addressed in my first post by saying, “break any law”

I suppose you are a constitutional law expert? Nobody “wants” Bush to break the law. People want Bush to defeat the terrorists which requires surveillance of the terrorists and they want Bush to act within the law which the program could very well do according to experts. And… I agree with those experts.

solitaire wrote, “It seems to be what you’re saying.” Welp. Now you’ve been refuted. That isn’t what we are saying.

Thanks for playing but your arguments are WEAK and typical.
PCD says:

March 3, 2006 at 10:54 am

Solitaire, same could be said about you and Bill and Hillary Clinton, and it would be true in your case.
solitaire says:

March 3, 2006 at 11:12 am

Baklava, you don’t think he’s breaking laws? Here’s a short list:
1. Article I: Section 9, Clause 7: [was violated by President Bush] by redirecting funds legislated for Afghanistan to planning for the invasion of Iraq prior to the Congressional resolution allowing it – also in general by violating numerous codes of US statutory law (against wire fraud (misrepresentations of fact on TV), bribery, off-shore prisons, torture etc.).
2. Article II, Section 2, Clause 3: both Cheney and Bush were Texas residents (also in violation of Amendment 12); Section 3: failing to â€¦take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed.” I.e. by allowing Vice President Cheney to continue to receive payments from a company to whom he granted multi-billion dollar “no-bid” contracts, and by participating in, aiding and abetting a system of institutionalized Bribery, usurping the Power of the
People of the United States under the US Constitution and replacing the republic with a form of naked Corporatism.
3. Article III, Section 3, Clause 1: on September 11th, 2001 Commander in Chief George W. Bush took no action whatsoever to defend the United States, and then abandoned his search for the alleged perpetrator to pursue an illegal war on Iraq, which former Secretary of the Treasury Paul O’Neill identified as a presidential goal stated to the cabinet in its FIRST MEETING.
4. Article VI, Section 1, Clause 2: by unilaterally revoking or redefining the meaning of words in International Treaties such as The Geneva Conventions, the Nuremburg Principles and numerous other International Treaties including the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty (historically, Acts of Congress, not presidential fiat, ended treaties).
5. Amendment I, Clause 1: by tolerating laws establishing religion (such as those remunerating daily prayer in Congress) and through statements advocating that Congress make laws allowing selective religious discrimination in hiring, and by actively working to instigate religious discrimination in hiring for jobs funded with tax dollars.
6. Amendment IV, Clause 1: by repeatedly evading the FISA Court, which was created exclusively for the for the purpose of rapidly granting emergency wiretaps, to illegally spy on US citizens, Clause 3, by detaining people without evidence, grand jury or warrant.
7. Amendment V, Clause 1: by holding individuals without charge or trial and without any oversight whatsoever by the Legislative or Judicial Branches, Clause 6: through the use of torture.
8. Amendment VI: by holding US citizens incommunicado and in secret without evidence, probable cause, warrant or charge, bail, due process, trial, or conviction, and, in the context of secrecy, perhaps including torture and execution.
9. Amendment VIII, Clause 3: by approving, allowing and justifying torture.
10. Amendment IX: by apparently manipulating the electoral process through bribery, the purging of voters, by allowing campaign staff to act as final arbiters in elections (while excluding independent observers during vote counting) such as Katherine Harris in Florida and J. Kenneth Blackwell in Ohio.
11. Amendment X: by attempting to overrule state laws such as right to die referenda in Oregon and medical marijuana laws in California.
12. Amendment XII, Clause 2: both George W. Bush and Richard Cheney were inhabitants of the states of Texas (although Cheney quickly moved to Wyoming and voted in primaries as a ridiculous fig leaf held in place by the “liberal” press), and other clauses: through election fraud in Florida, Ohio and elsewhere.
13. Amendment XV: through voter purges in Florida and elsewhere, in which purged voters were primarily of a single race, and who were not informed of their removal from the list of registered voters, making it impossible for them to vote.
Big Bang Hunter says:

March 3, 2006 at 11:13 am

– Ohhhh, is this the part where the same players that review everything on an ongoing basis, go back and re-review the same material they “reviewed” before, but somehow felt they hadn’t “reviewed” the review enough, or so they told the press, which dutifully printed each and every partisan lie like the Liberal lap dog it is, that they felt they didn’t get the proper reviews when they did the original reviews, which IS their job, so after carefully reviewing the situation NOW they think they should go back and do another review just to make sure that everyone can see they’re politiking at best, or aren’t doing their jobs in the first place properly or they wouldn’t need a review of the review of the review, and damn-it! they didn’t GET Bush or Rove yet again.

– Who did they think would by this BS, all the kids under school age.

– Yes. the Dems/Libs/MSM are running into a “Greatest Outrage hits of the 21st century” cry wolf saturation. You can only go to the well just so many times, and at this point they’re 0 and 19 against ChimpyMcHitlerHalliburtonBushCo….

– Thats just gotta leave a mark….*snort*

– Bang
solitaire says:

March 3, 2006 at 12:00 pm

And Bak, I wasn’t saying that YOU want Bush to break laws. I was addressing Sister Toldjah because the links on this post were very apologetic for BushCo’s breaking the law, again and again. That I don’t understand. The GOP leadership may be corrupt, but I thought the GOP base had some idea of what they stood for. Now it just seems they stand for “anything he does is ok.” I thought I was on a conservative GOP blog. I’m looking for the GOP that cared about out of control expenses, a don’t-tread-on-me attitude toward the Feds, and defense of our Constitution. Can you recommend one?
Baklava says:

March 3, 2006 at 12:03 pm

Solitaire, what are your credentials?

You are way out there. Even with credentials it is not the common opinion of most people that Bush broke the laws you say he broke.

You’d be beyond reason to debate with. You have your opinion and I have mine.

Just a cursury review of your charges is enough evidence that you do NOT understand what the President is able to do as Commander in Chief. A freshman in college could answer your charges.

And why do you have this pattern? Is it fun? Is it fostering debate about ideas and solutions? THis pattern by the left of making inaccurate accusations has got to be tiring for you guys. Are you tired of it at all?
Baklava says:

March 3, 2006 at 12:06 pm

Solitaire wrote, “And Bak, I wasn’t saying that YOU want Bush to break laws. I was addressing Sister Toldjah because the links on this post were very apologetic for BushCo’s breaking the law, again and again.

That’s the point. We have a disagreement with you but you refuse to see it as just that. You’ll treat us with condescension and continue making inaccurate charges no matter what we say. At some point you have to understand that nobody “wants” Bush to break the law as you characterize it. For you to characterize it that way is the weakest of all arguments because you couldn’t find ONE person who actually wants Bush to break the law except for loonies.
solitaire says:

March 3, 2006 at 12:11 pm

Bak, if you don’t think the public believes that he is breaking the law, and you don’t believe the polls, and you think that this is all great stuff for the GOP, then all that can be done is to wait for the 2006 elections to be over and maybe then we can talk. Meanwhile, I’m really serious about finding a real GOP blog. The ‘GRAND OLD PARTY’. A blog where the people are conservative, GOP, fiscally responsible and aware of the dire position that Bush has them in. I’m looking for the realists. I can’t handle this ‘everything is fine and dandy’ bs I’m reading on this blog. It is not fine and dandy. Everything is FUBAR.
sanity says:

March 3, 2006 at 12:12 pm

Actually, Solitaire seems to have cut and paste that from somewhere.

You wouldn’t by chance have a link to your source would you Solitaire? I would be curious to read more and to see where you came by this information, and what the background is for it.

Just a side note though, everything in that breaking fo the law you posted, didn’t list anything for the NSA INTERNATIONAL (not domestic – then you would be talking about Clintons spying program) Spying program except for one small piece.

6. Amendment IV, Clause 1: by repeatedly evading the FISA Court, which was created exclusively for the for the purpose of rapidly granting emergency wiretaps, to illegally spy on US citizens, Clause 3, by detaining people without evidence, grand jury or warrant.

Which I believe was answered awhile back.

Tell you what, write your congressman and have him start impeachment process for this. I am sure you will have support for it in San Fran.
Big Bang Hunter says:

March 3, 2006 at 12:13 pm

– Whats your problem solitaire, Bush spent a record amount on entitlements the past few years, 392 billion. more than 87% greater than Clinton.

– Or is it that he’s outdone you at your own pet charished Democratic “golden idol”. Is that your beef. *chuckle*…

– In the mean time, the Dhimmycrats continue with the “shoe laces tied together” clown act. You have Hillery screeching about the UAE port deal, while her hubby, slick Willey, is busy defending his buds, whom he has close financial ties too, collecting as he does $300,000 for each speech he gives in the emerates. Whats wrong with this picture.

– Oh thats right. anything goes for the Dimbulbs because its all about “feelings” over substance, don’t cha know.

– Bang
solitaire says:

March 3, 2006 at 12:19 pm

Sanity, I’m from the South. That’s where I live. Was that supposed to be an insult?

No links? Nothing? I’m looking for a blog that recognizes the trouble the GOP is in and wants to do something real about it? Anybody?
Big Bang Hunter says:

March 3, 2006 at 12:34 pm

“[sic]…the trouble the GOP is in…”

– If the GOP was trully in trouble the Liberalcrats wouldn’t be stepping up the screech level so intensely.

– Weak on the WOT. cut and run. Interfer with anti- american activities.

– No party platform.

– Totally out of the mainstream political positions.

– For 6 years substututing “Get Bush” campaigning for any real social plan or leadership.

– Who did you say was in trouble again?…
Bachbone says:

March 3, 2006 at 12:36 pm

Solitaire’s 13 points are identical to a post on Congress.org, where anyone can say most anything without fear of contradiction (no feedback).

Now that (s)he has demonstrated the ability to cut & paste, perhaps (s)he will master the developmental skill of nonregurgitation, instead of burping up DNC formula, move on to connecting dots consecutively, rather than in random order, and, eventually, to logical thinking
Baklava says:

March 3, 2006 at 12:36 pm

Solitaire wrote, “Bak, if you don’t think the public believes that he is breaking the law

That isn’t the issue. Sure some people (like you) “believe” that he is breaking the law. The question is whether he did so or not since you raised the accusation. Most don’t believe so.

Solitaire wrote, “and you don’t believe the polls”

Polls are irrelevant to whether he broke the law and polls are as good as the question and those who are questioned. I never said btw that I don’t believe the polls.

Solitaire wrote, “and you think that this is all great stuff for the GOP

No. I don’t think this is “great” stuff for the G.O.P. I think the GOP has been mealy mouthed and has been letting the Democrats get away with making false allegations. The GOP is not even conservative they are to the left of center mainly trying to play nice with the Democrats and they continually get slapped around. What I think is evident over the last decade is that there are more conservatives in numbers than liberals and the trend continues through today. Does that bother you?

Solitaire wrote, “I can’t handle this â€˜everything is fine and dandy’ bs I’m reading on this blog

Everything isn’t fine and dandy. False allegations. A war that has been undermined by the left after we were attacked the worst in our history. A Republican party that isn’t conservative generally and illegal immigration. But what do the Democrats have to offer? They have to offer all of those problems. Isn’t that funny!!
solitaire says:

March 3, 2006 at 12:48 pm

“A war that has been undermined by the left after we were attacked the worst in our history.”

Iraq, according to George Bush, had nothing to do with 9/11. Why do you keep saying so?

People on the left are not the only ones against this war.

It’s that kind of stuff that bothers me. I may not be the best writer in town, but I don’t have to tell lies to make my point.

I also don’t have to read personal insults. So I have decided (I’m sure you will not mind) to go on and try to find that blog that I’m sure must be out there somewhere.

Good luck to all of you, specially Bak who has been civil.
Baklava says:

March 3, 2006 at 12:54 pm

The copy and paste could’ve been from thinkprogress.org which solitaire has commented on. That site has the exact text and more from a commenter called Remove Bush on March 1st.

On that site Solitaire said, ““Bush is a War Criminal.” I carve it into every ceramic jar, bowl, or plate I make. Ceramic lasts a long long long time. Man, people buy that stuff faster than I can make it!

BTW, the same Remove Bush commenter posted this:

I am, though I am not a structural engineer. I can tell you though by the math, that these buildings COULD NOT HAVE FALLEN AT A FREE FALL RATE without explosives being in the building.
Baklava says:

March 3, 2006 at 1:00 pm

Solitaire asked with typical liberal ploy, “Iraq, according to George Bush, had nothing to do with 9/11. Why do you keep saying so? Don’t you get tired of irrelevant questions? Why not listen to the answer once or twice? This is a global war on terror. We learned lessons on 9/11. The people who perpetrated 9/11 are dead. They were in the plane. It isn’t about Bin Laden only. We are waging a multi-faceted war and trying to disrupt their operations everywhere, remove their ability to raise funds, create a domino effect of freedom which has a few benefits. You can either get behind it or undermine it. Or do neither.

Solitaire wrote, “to go on and try to find that blog that I’m sure must be out there somewhere.

Pow. Big whopper there. You’ve found and have been there. You liked that March 1st post from Remove Bush huh?
sanity says:

March 3, 2006 at 1:09 pm

solitaire was what an insult?

Your not making any sense.

And if I was to insult, you would know it.

What I made was honest observations and questions.

How about some honest answers and links.
Severian says:

March 3, 2006 at 1:47 pm

“13. Amendment XV: through voter purges in Florida and elsewhere, in which purged voters were primarily of a single race, and who were not informed of their removal from the list of registered voters, making it impossible for them to vote.”

OK, this one is easy. The mantra of blacks being disenfranchised in FL, and of election fraud, is still out there, and it is patently and totally untrue, unless you are counting Democratic voter fraud.

The Civil Rights Commission, not by any stretch of the imagination a “conservative” or Republican controlled organization (in fact usually hostile to Reps and conservatives), investigated allegations of supression of minority voters in Florida and found ABSOLUTELY NO evidence of it. Non, none, nada. Yet we still have the race baiters and Dems out there claiming over a million blacks were shut out. Gee, if over a million were, you’d think they’d be able to find even one who was during the investigation.

With respect to purging voter roles, once again, it’s illegal for felons to vote, that’s the law in Florida, so here we have an example of upholding the law being a “crime.” Plus, once again, the vast majority of those who were purged, and they were purged accurately, were white, not black or hispanic. Throw that claim out the window now too.

What did happen was concerted efforts on the part of the Democrats and the MSM to throw Florida to the Dems. The Dems had thousands of military votes thrown out on a technicality that did not in any way affect the accuracy or authenticity of the votes in question, because the military votes for Republicans by bout 2:1 at least. So, you want to double and triple check every dimpled chad to make sure the will of this incompetent voter who couldn’t understand a simple voting ballot counted, but not count the votes of service men and women overseas who are defending us. You want felons to vote, but not military. Great.

The MSM did their part, calling Florida early for the Dems, despite the fact that it was extremely close, before the polling places in the Florida panhandle closed one time zone over, where the population is mostly Republican/conservative. Yeah, before they go vote, tell them it’s a fait acompli, the Dems have won, nothing you can do, might as well stay home and not vote. That alone is estimated to have cost Bush thousands of votes.

And finally, let’s not recount everyone, just in those areas where we think we can harvest/create enough votes to win. Really fair and ethical eh? And, there is ample evidence in Palm Beach County and elsewhere using paper ballots of voter fraud committed by Dems. Lots of instances, far more than statistically possible by chance or that happened in prior elections, of people voting a complete or nearly straight Republican ticket and having an overvote for president. Yeah, that makes sense, I know everyone who votes a straight ticket but then can’t make up their mind for president. This is a well known and time honored technique perfected by the Daley machine in Chicago. You take the ballots and while transfering them you take a pin or small nail and jam it down the candidate you favor’s hole in the stack of cards. This accomplishes two things, if it was a vote for your candidate, it ensures there are no hanging chads, and if it wasn’t a vote for your candidate, it negates that vote by making it an overvote. There is ample evidence of this happening, as there is ample evidence of DEMOCRATIC voter fraud every election.

The entire list solitaire presented is like this, innuendo, lies, and misreprensations presented as solid facts. It’s total BS, and apparently is the best the left can come up with.
Big Bang Hunter says:

March 3, 2006 at 2:09 pm

– Actually the thing most comical about the usual “irregularties in voting” meme floated by the left everytime them get beat like a drum in an election is that the subsequent “imvestigations” generally ends up costing them even more votes, as it did in Florida, adding an additional 350,000+ votes to Bushes totals. But nevermind. They never learn.

– The Pew skewed “exit” poll, intended to discourage late Republican voters, was so ineffective, it left all the leftwing media TV shows scratching their heads into the wee hours of the morning, trying futily to reconsile the precinct reports with the poll, until someone finally “got it”, and then the floodgates broke, because after all ratings trump partisanship when push comes to shove.

– But then I guess when you simply can’t win because your politics are so far outside of the mainstream majority, then denial and attempts at voter manipulation is the only option left for the left.

– Bang
PCD says:

March 3, 2006 at 2:22 pm

Bang,

Just added a trackback I wrote that ties in with your last paragraph.
Sister Toldjah says:

March 3, 2006 at 2:49 pm

Oops – sorry, PCD – I deleted that trackback. If you want to link up to something you wrote at IV, just post the link directly here in the comments rather than trackingback- I prefer trackbacks to contain a link to the ST post here they are tracking to.
Big Bang Hunter says:

March 3, 2006 at 3:00 pm

– Thanks PCD… anything that garners ST’s excellant site and erudite writing a larger audience is welcome.

– I’m looking forward to a possible Condi/Giuliani ticket in 08, whence I think it might be such a landslide we won’t have to suffer the usual sore loser bleating from the party of NO!. *chuckle*

– Bang
PCD says:

March 3, 2006 at 3:25 pm

Bang,

My Post on Democrat Vote Fraud

I heard on Rush, but didn’t get the whole story about another 14 assumed Democrats (because the MSM won’t identify them) charged with vote fraud in W. VA.

It seems the Kerry campaign was into dirty tricks, vote suppression, and the like according to the defense in the 5 Donkeycrats in Wisconsin convicted of slashing tires on GOP get out the vote vans.

Democrats sure have a corrupt culture. I wrote a bit on it here.
Baklava says:

March 3, 2006 at 3:42 pm

Is that on top of the Democrat convicted in St. Louis MO?
PCD says:

March 3, 2006 at 3:55 pm

I believe so, Bak. Which is on top of the Democrats convicted in Washington State.
steve says:

March 3, 2006 at 4:11 pm

Wait until the Senate gets it’s shot at investigating the NSA. Kerry will show no mercy. Duke Cunningham pleaded guilty to accepting $1+ million in bribes from Mitchell Wade, and inluence peddling. Mr. Wade also gave $80,000 to two other Republicans: $48,000 to Virgil Goode and $32,000 to Katherine Harris. You all remember Harris, she was the Sect of the State of Florida who helped bush steal the 2000 election. Corruption? Peace
Severian says:

March 3, 2006 at 4:16 pm

“Kerry will show no mercy.”

Kerry will show no sense or intelligence either…

Katherine Harris, you mean the woman who helped uphold the laws of Florida and stop Democrat vote rigging, preventing the Democrats from stealing the 2000 election?
Big Bang Hunter says:

March 3, 2006 at 4:18 pm

– If I were ever to appear before a committee on which the unsinkable LurchKerry sat, the first thing I would do in my opening remarks would be to ask Kerry if he’s “found” that elusive form 180 yet….

– Bang
Baklava says:

March 3, 2006 at 6:01 pm

It’s under his mattress…
sanity says:

March 3, 2006 at 6:09 pm

It’s in the same place that Hillary’s law firm documents were…
forest hunter says:

March 3, 2006 at 6:13 pm

PCD. That’s good news! I didn’t realize they’re finally starting to get somewhere with that fraudulent mess in the Evergreen State. Which socialist did they bag?
sanity says:

March 3, 2006 at 8:00 pm

It’s probably in the same place that Hillary’s legal records were that went missing for sometime…..

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