in the wrong era. Soundly refuting
liberals online since 2000. NOTE: That is NOT
me pictured at left. :)
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Audacity of Truth
"Diplomacy":
"People are saying what in the world is going on with North Carolina, we look like Mississippi." - NC Gov. Bev Perdue (D) on the passage of Amendment One, 5-11-12
“24″ under attack by CAIR
First, Keith Olbermann called the show “propaganda” for the administration in the WOT, and now the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) is worried that people won’t be able to tell fact from fiction. Here’s a CAIR press release (via K. Lo):
(WASHINGTON, D.C., 1/18/07) – A prominent national Islamic civil rights and advocacy group today expressed concern that the new story line on Fox’s “24″ terror drama may have a negative impact on the national debate over civil liberties.
The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) said the explosion of a nuclear device near Los Angeles at the end of the most recent episode of “24″ may also serve to increase anti-Muslim prejudice in American society.
SEE: Muslims Unhappy Over `24′ Portrayal (AP)
In a statement, the Washington-based group said:
“The raw emotional impact of fictional scenes that include widespread death and destruction in America may adversely affect the public’s attitude toward civil liberties, religious freedom and interfaith relations. The program’s repeated association of acts of terrorism with Islam will only serve to increase anti-Muslim prejudice in our society.
“We have communicated the American Muslim community’s concerns about this season’s story line to Fox officials and will work with the network to help viewers distinguish between televised fiction and actual world events.”
Great. I’d love to see how they try and distinguish the Islamofascists hell bent on destroying America in “24″ from these very real Islamofascists. As far as that goes, there is no difference between the Islamofascists portrayed on “24″ and the ones in real life.
But as usual, CAIR is hyperventilating apparently without reviewing the facts. If any of you watched the first two episodes of “24″, you saw the head of the fictional organization which resembles CAIR has been portrayed as a good guy who has done nothing wrong, and who – from what it looks like – will be a ‘mole’ of sorts who will be able to provide valuable information on what he hears in the internment-like camp he’s been put in to “President Palmer’s” sister, who is an ACLU-esque attorney, who will then, in turn, tell her brother.
I’ve said this before here and I’ll say it again: Rather than wasting time on fictional TV shows and trying to get conservative talk radio hosts kicked off the air, CAIR should get a hold on their Muslim brothers and restrain them from planning and committing terrorist attacks- like 9-11, 3-11, 7-7, and the hundreds of thousands of other terrorists attacks committed by Islamofascists around the world, because that’s what stirs up anti-Muslim sentiment, not shows like “24“.
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The program’s repeated association of acts of terrorism with Islam will only serve to increase anti-Muslim prejudice in our society.
Really astonishing how the producers and writers of this show just happened to, out of all the groups in the world, pick Muslims out of the hat. Inexplicable. It’s almost as if they have an ax to grind or something. You would have thought they try to find some group that would plausibly commit terroist acts. Like, oh, elderly Lutherans.
On the other hand, if CAIR is starting to worry about the “American Street,” then maybe they can pass that concern along to their splodeydope buddies.
Right now CAIR is nothing more than a 21st Century version of the German-American Bundt.
Oh, I knew this was coming. The minute I heard what the show was going to be about this year, I knew the muslims would go ape.
So predictable.
This Gaggle cartoon says it all.
Lets see if this actually works….if not I added the link below to look at the cartoon:
LINK
I’ve notice this season is full of ambiguity. The bigot to tried to beat up the teenage terrorist was right (for the wrong reasons). There’s plenty of debate over security vs. liberty. Jack is already falling apart emotionally. The twists and turns the writers insert should make this season far from black and white.
Sean, just added your site to my blogroll. Keep up the good work.
I’ve said this before here and I’ll say it again: Rather than wasting time on fictional TV shows and trying to get conservative talk radio hosts kicked off the air, CAIR should get a hold on their Muslim brothers and restrain them from planning and committing terrorist attacks- like 9-11, 3-11, 7-7, and the hundreds of thousands of other terrorists attacks committed by Islamofascists around the world, because that’s what stirs up anti-Muslim sentiment, not shows like “24″.
Loves it!
However, i do understand why muslims would get mad about a show like 24. Extreme pro-censor groups are always trying to cancel controversial shows that conflict with their interests. Just last year Dobson attacked the show “Postcards from Buster” for profiling children with same-sex parents. CAIR and Dobson should get together and censor the whole world! Until there in nothing left in this world! Chile looks like a giant penis: censor maps! Hollywood is liberal: censor! Church signs are advertise bible studies in a public place! WTF!: censor! CAIR needs to lay off “24″ for it’s a brilliantly executed and well-planned show, and Dobson needs to lay off SpongeBob! It’s hilarious and entertaining! What’s next? Burning books? Thought control?
BTW, not all terrorists are muslim. We still got the KKK and plenty of other groups of all races and colors commiting violent acts on innocent people.
The difference between the two being that the ‘entertainment community’ doesn’t give a crap what James Dobson says, but do pay attention to CAIR.
Nice attempt at moral relativism, though.
“BTW, not all terrorists are muslim. We still got the KKK and plenty of other groups of all races and colors commiting violent acts on innocent people.”
Your knee jerk reaction is noted, Sarah, with boredom, as is your second attempt at moral relativism. The “people of all stripes do it” doesn’t cut it when a majority of terrorist acts in the world are committed by extremist Muslims – not the KKK, and not ‘other groups.’ No, all terrorists are not Muslims, but most terrorist acts are committed by Muslims. Deal with it.
I don’t know Sis, maybe sarah has a point…I’m getting tired of the Mormons forcing people gunning down people with only one wife, the damned Christian Scientists blowing up hospitals, and worst of all, the continued Amish assault on zipper manufacturers and their attempts for force a raw milk jihad on everyone. It’s a nightmare I tell ya, Muslims are hardly a blip on the screen with all this violence from other groups.
LOL Sev!
Sev wrote, “Muslims are hardly a blip on the screen with all this violence from other groups.
I think second place award goes to the peace activists committing violence in the name of peace…
Then, 3rd place would be the evironuts hurting people in the name of the environment with spikes in trees that hurt loggers and vandalism that damages SUV’s and burning of new housing communities.
Oh. I forgot about the French “youths” who burned 5,000+ cars for their cause. Oh wait a minute they were muslims so that goes back to militant extremist muslims.
All of the what 23 wars/skirmishes going on they are all with Muslims. I think Muslims must have valid points and must be legitimately frustrated.
I know a cure for frustration!! Love not war!! Women of the world – grab your nearest muslim and unfrustrate him! OK. That was wrong. I apologize for that one there. (Larry the Cable guy humor there).
Amazing, You can always count on soembody to bring up US Christians in response to observations on Muslim violence and intolerance.
Yup. Some people are born stupid, some achieve it, and others thrust it upon us.
Or something.
Sorry I used Christians as an example. I am assuming that you are a christian so I was trying to make a point that even a self-proclaimed christian could commit an act of violence. Saying you follow Christ is not the same as believing in Christ, just as saying you’re muslim does not make you a true muslim. Must I remind you that Muhammad Ali refused to fight in Vietnam because he was muslim. Some people make up what they want to believe and what they want to get out of religion. I personally believe the basis of any religion is peace and forgiveness but other may not. Others may support killing people in the name of terrorism or islam or the environment. We should forgive, not attack. How do you expect them to forgive us, if we can’t forgive them. It’s up to someone to be the better man. I’m trying to say that all terrorists are the same no matter what race or religion they come from. Majority does not make it the truth. These are only my opinions. They may be wrong. I like “24″ It’s a good show. But muslims are not the only ones capable of destruction.
It’s not stupid to want peace.
Psalms 34:14
Well,sarah, if they’re dead, it doesn’t matter if they forgive me or not.
Must I remind you that Muhammad Ali refused to fight in Vietnam because he was muslim.
Good an excuse as any and much better PR than saying he didn’t want to inconvenience himself or was too terrified of getting killed to do his duty, but don’t even remotely assume it was due to his muslim “faith” or any problem with violence. His “non-violence” didn’t stop him from pounding the living crap out of anyone who got into a ring with him. Very non-violent
Who doesn’t want peace Sarah?
I can answer the question. I’ll do it after you.
Severian, but do you forgive them? Who the f**k cares about them! It’s your soul. Millions of people can die without forgiving you, cuz a grudge can kill, so that’s what they died of anyways, but how about your soul?
And boxing is a sport. Do you consider banning sports? I suppose war is a sport to you as well. Let’s see how maybe innocent people we can kill before we get killed ourselves. Perhaps he was selfish. But it’s not one’s duty to fight for a cause they don’t believe in. We need more troops in Iraq.
I wish more people played with balls instead of guns.
Edited – language. –ST
Everyone wants peace I suppose. But we’re not doing a good job of achieving it. Perhaps it’s unattainable. I think I’m gonna go pray now and worry about my own soul now. Perhaps making peace with yourself is the only thing you can do. My mama tells me not to argue but I get so stubborn and carried away sometimes. It’s how wars start. I’ll stop. It’s hard, but nothing is truly impossible if you put a little effort into it. Believe what you want.
I supppose your answer is: muslims?
Your answer would be wrong. What was your answer since you wrote, “It’s not stupid to want peace. insinuating that somebody thought it was stupid to want peace.
BTW, Sarah WHY did you have to use the “F” word?
Sarah wrote, “It’s how wars start.”
Wars start when people attack others as in 9/11. What would’ve been your response?
The Global War on Terror is being waged on many fronts including non-militarily. I applaud our LONG effort waged against terrorists. Just because you disagree doesn’t give you the right to make accusations against our intentions or desire for peace. We want peace. Peace is not submitting. I will not submit to anyone but a woman.
My mama tells me not to argue but I get so stubborn and carried away sometimes. It’s how wars start.
Un-freaking-believable. So let me get this straight – you’re willing to simply let the islamofascists have their way, anywhere they want, because resisting them is “how wars start”????
Your mama, unfortunately, was wrong. You do not need two parties to start a war. One will do quite nicely.
The islamofascists have made it clear that they have been at war with us for some time. We have three options: convert to their 7th-century concept of islam, surrender and live the dhimmi life, or fight back and beat them. The third option sounds right to me. Tell us, are you choosing A or B?
Michelle Malkin just got back from Iraq and has this must read post.
It’s a new idea.
Bak, that’s a good post. It throws a light on the Iraqi situation you seldom see.
I also would recommend Malkin’s post on the late Lt. Mark Daily. Sarah, in particular, might find some of her questions answered by the excerpt from Lt. Daily’s MySpace site. It’s a powerful, well-written exposition of why we are doing what we must do.
The Islamists don’t want peace, except that which comes after they crush every non-Muslim state on the planet. You can talk to them if you wish, but they want you to submit to them or die, so all you have left to discuss is how quickly you will roll over for them.
Further, what the Islamists preach is NOT a “perversion” of an otherwise peaceful faith. Everything they say, everything they do is firmly rooted in the Koran, the haditha, or the sunna. It may be an extreme form of Islam, but it is not a perverse one.
To inanely claim that “everybody wants peace” today is as irresponsible as was Nevile Chamberlain believing he could sit down with Adolph Hitler and make a reasonable compromise, man to man. Some people want you dead, and the fact that you’re willing to try talking to them only proves in their mind how debased and worthless you are.
We did not cause 9/11, we did not deserve it. Nor did we deserve the first WTC bombing, or the African embassy bombings, any more than Leon Klinghoffer deserved to be murdered in his wheelchair or Robert Dean Stethem deserved to be beaten to death. Israelis do not deserve to be slaughtered on their buses, in their restaurants, in their homes. Sudanese Christians do not deserve to be massacred. Buddhist and Hindu Indonesians do not deserve to be beheaded.
All of these things are being done by people who believe it is their holy duty to do so, and that they are instantly rewarded with Spring Break in Paradise if they die conducting jihad.
You deal with this kind of retarded death cult the same way you deal with any other toxic or predatory threat. Go ahead and negotiate with cholera, sit down and find common ground with ebola, link arms and sing Kumbaya with AIDS. The rest of us will still be here long after your corpse is lowered into its grave, and we’ll be marvelling at the stupidity that would lead anyone to embrace death.
In the meanwhile, many of us will be interceding with our lives to preserve silly nincompoops from being forced into burkhas or being stoned to death if they leave the house, or being crushed to death by stone walls if they’re gay, or being beaten if they cheer at a football game. We do not ask your permission to do so. We don’t do it for you per se, but for the entire civilization that we think is worth defending from the darkness.
Have you read the qu’ran? It’s an expanded version of the bible for god sake! Have you been to Iraq? We need more troops, why don’t y’all enlist and fight for the holy war. History is repeating itself. It’s vietnam over again.
“God can’t you people see that history repeats itself. It’s following in the footsteps of the failure that was vietnam. It wasnt our business to go there and fuck it all up in the first place. We should have just minded our own business and not f*****[censorship is so un-american] with their government. It’s gonna stay the way it is forever and our being ther isnt gonna change it or anything. We’re just making it a lot more complicated and causing more drama than there already was. We’re trying to change the way things have been for centuries in a few years of war. No way thats gonna happen.” –b.
Futhurmore, we are hurting ourselves. Using money we don’t have to fund a fight we will never win. College tuitions are going up, gas prices, so on.
Jesus would be ashamed. He said, “only throw rocks if you have never sinned.”
Sorry about the f word. I suppose some people still have backward ideas about freedom of speech. But the young will rise, like the hippies of the 60s, the youth of this nation have a legacy to live up to. They must stop our nation from becoming a fascist regime.
But seriously why aren’t y’all soldiers? We’d be “winning” with more passionate people such as yourselfs.
9/11 only occured cuz our government wasn’t functioning properly. I remember there were fears of an attack back in august, but nobody did anything to prevent it. 9/11 could have been prevented!
It’s oil I’m telling you. The government is screwing with you and you are blindly following. Read Vonnegut’s new book. Pg. 42.
Great White Rat, we don’t just have three choices. We have so many choices. They are just angry cuz america has been messing with them since world war one. The extremists can’t take it anymore. Brush up on history. The Mid-east hasn’t always looked this way. Osama, was after all, trained by us. I’m not saying what they are doing is right, but what we are doing is not right either. They believe, just as we do, that they are justified in what they are doing. Our crusades are so 7th century.
And I was all for Saddam getting overthrown, but it should have done by the Iraqi people. If they wanted change they could have gotten it. After all it wasn’t the spanish that made us fight the english to gain our independence, it was us americans.
f*****[censorship is so un-american]
But being a potty mouth apparently is eh?
Nice that you, like every liberal, fall back on the lame chickenhawk “if you like it so much why don’t you enlist” meme. We have people on this site who have done just that, and people support the effort in different ways. Like supporting what we are trying to accomplish, rather than acting like a petulant 5 year old kicking the seatbacks and whining because they don’t want to go to Grandma’s but the parents are taking them anyway.
The Koran is an expanded Bible eh? I guess Mein Kampf was just an expanded version of Tom Sawyer too. Just boys being boys after all. It’s painfully obvious you either have never read it, or have a serious reading comprehension problem.
When you get thru patting yourself on the back for being such wonderful paragon of virtue, maybe you’ll open your eyes and let reality in a bit, as you peer thru the eyeslit in your burkha.
And I was all for Saddam getting overthrown, but it should have done by the Iraqi people.
Yeah, we should just have sat there and let him become even more of a festering threat, continue to attack our aircraft, make further attempts to assassinate US leaders, etc. until his own people got their kit together and overthrew him. I guess in your mind, we should have waited until the Japanese overthrew Tojo and Hirohito after Pearl Harbor too, how dare we go attack Japan!
I hope you weren’t willing to hold your breath waiting for that little pipe dream to happen. How many totalitarian dictatorships have you ever seen overthrown by the oppressed people? Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy? Ooops, no, we did that too.
I think we see a theme in your “thoughts” here, you’re mad at the Iraqi people and don’t care if they suffer, because they didn’t “do their jobs” and overthrow Saddam. So you’re mad at us for doing it, and at them for not doing it, so you apparently don’t care that they were brutalized before, and will be even more brutalized if this effort fails. Nice…good Christian sentiment there, “I don’t care if they were being killed and brutalized by a despotic dictator for decades, with casualties approaching a million, it’s not my problem.”
Congratulations, Sarah. Never before have I seen so many extreme-left cliches, conspiracy theories, and outright nonsense packed into one post. You aren’t an editorial writer for the NYT or the Nation, by any chance, are you?
First, you start echoing Ted Kennedy, which is always a sign you’re disconnected from reality: It’s vietnam over again…It’s following in the footsteps of the failure that was vietnam.
Well, it will be if you have your way. By now we all know that we had the Vietnam war won by the early 70′s – Ho Chi Minh was ready to throw in the towel. That was until his friends on the left here started noisily calling for our defeat. That gave them hope to continue. The final cost, including the millions who were slaughtered, is entirely the responsibility of our leftists. I’m willing to bet you don’t care any more about the fate of the Iraqi people than the libs in the 70′s did about the Vietnamese.
And we can always count on the unhinged moonbats to trot out the chickenhawk meme: But seriously why aren’t y’all soldiers?
You don’t really want to go there, do you? If your house is on fire, I’m sure you’ll call the fire department – even though you’ve never sat in the hook-and-ladder next to a Dalmatian in 20 degree weather on the way to a three-alarmer. You probably eat bread, even though you’ve never had to get up at 3am to plow the wheat field.
Besides, if we follow your logic, no one can have an opinion on military matters unless you’ve served. So the policy will be made entirely by the professional military and veterans groups. Fine by me – let’s listen to the generals, the marines, and the Legionnaires while Pelosi, Clinton, and Kennedy must be quiet. By the way, I did serve in the military, so by your standards I can speak. And if you haven’t, by your standards you should shut the hell up.
Then your wander into further irrelevance: College tuitions are going up, gas prices, so on.
Uh, it’s called the economy. One reason college tuitions are going up because we have this obsession that anyone who’s ever finished a Dick-and-Jane book must go to college. Supply and demand, and all that. And where I live, the gas prices are down over the past year.
Then you predictably lunge into the my-rights-are-absolute idiocy: Sorry about the f word. I suppose some people still have backward ideas about freedom of speech.
Freedom of speech is about the government banning political speech. It doesn’t give you the right to toss profanities anywhere you please. ST has standards of decency for commenters here. If you don’t want to observe them, it’s her right to edit you, warn you, or ban you.
Looking back to the days of bad LSD, you stumble onward: But the young will rise, like the hippies of the 60s, the youth of this nation have a legacy to live up to.
Yeah, look at the legacy of the hippies. Millions dead at the hands of dictators and disease, nearly world domination by totalitarians, and your crowning achievement, an islamofascist Iran that we need to deal with today. Thanks loads. You guys should have showered more and demonstrated less.
More incoherence: They must stop our nation from becoming a fascist regime.
Oh, so Bush is still Hitler? Funny – I’m pretty sure Hitler never let his opponents win an election. Can you show me where he did? And the fact that you’re able to spew your nonsense, right out here in the open, is proof you’re detatched from reality. If you were right, we’d have carted you off to a re-education camp by now and forced you to hunt, pray, and watch NASCAR.
Now you peek out from under the tinfoil hat and mumble: 9/11 only occured cuz our government wasn’t functioning properly. I remember there were fears of an attack back in august, but nobody did anything to prevent it. 9/11 could have been prevented!
OK…so the same people who claim Bush had no right pre-emptive in Iraq insist he should have been pre-emptive about 9/11. Got it. Dr. Rat diagnoses you with an acute case of BDS. Take in three Mark Steyn columns and call me in the morning.
Struggling in the strait-jacket, you finally screech: It’s oil I’m telling you. The government is screwing with you and you are blindly following. Read Vonnegut’s new book. Pg. 42.
Yeah, it’s the oil. If the oil was all we wanted, we could have bought off Saddam the way the French and the Russians did. Much cheaper. Or invaded Saudi Arabia instead – they have a lot more oil and had a lot weaker military.
And Vonnegut isn’t even a good fiction writer, much less a student of geopolitics.
we don’t just have three choices.
WRONG, Sarah. Those are the only choices they give you. You cannot appease them. They’ve attacked the French and the Russians, neither of whom do a thing to offend them, and who are even on their side against us.
Get it through your head – they want YOU dead. They want ME dead. They want EVERYONE dead who does not believe what THEY do. Everyone who does not believe like they do is an abomination who needs to be exterminated.
They’re very clear about this. Read what they post it on the internet. Listen to them call for jihad against the West. For some reason, you don’t believe it. You think it means something else. Guess what? It doesn’t matter what you think they mean. What matters is what they think it means, and to them it means they want to kill.
They want to kill civilization as we know it. They hate it. It’s a complete and total abomination, that they consider it their duty to destroy or die trying.
They don’t care if you’re a conservative or a liberal. They don’t care whether you voted for Bush or Kerry. They don’t care whether you’re a Christian, a Hindu, or an atheist. They don’t care if you have a Ph.D or dropped out of high school. They want to kill you simply because you EXIST. That is intolerable in their view of the world. You must not be allowed to soil the purity of their Islamic dream.
You cannot appease them. You cannot deflect (aside from momentarily) them. You cannot buy them off. They are looking to kill. They believe their god demands the slaughter of the unbeliever. And the West doesn’t believe. Therefore it must be destroyed.
I have a target on my back. You have a target on your back. So do Howard Dean and George Bush. We are all marked for death at their hands – if they can get their hands on us, or some weapon that can kill us.
What part of that escapes you?
The young are rising, Sarah, They’re enlisting.
Your chickenhawk argument is beyond contempt. I don’t really know why I am responding after you shot your last justification to be debating here with that one.
And finally, your gloss on the Koran betrays your own ignorance. No, you have never read it if you think it’s just “an expanded version of the Bible.”
Unless you count among the expansions the exhortation to kill the unbeliever and take his property and women (rather odd, that last part, since it implies there’s a difference between property and women in the Muslim world).
But you can bet the Islamists have read the Koran, It’s the only legitimate source of literature and inspiration to them, and they’ll readily quote you all the justifications you want why Allah and Mohammed wants you dead or enslaved.
They’re very clear about this. Read what they post it on the internet. Listen to them call for jihad against the West. For some reason, you don’t believe it. You think it means something else.
The ability of the “peace loving” liberals to completely ignore reality never ceases to amaze me. It’s exactly analogous to pre-WWII Europe. Hitler publishes Mein Kampf, which unambiguously said EXACTLY what he wanted to do and what he believed, and everyone ignored it. The Islamists have done exactly the same thing, but apparently it’s preferable to some people to ignore it because it either frightens them or something. They consistently refuse to face the reality, and it doesn’t matter how many times our enemies say they want to kill us, they still refuse to believe or even acknowledge it.
Lack of knowledge of history? Lack of will? A childish desire to hide from reality? Mental illness? I think the latter comes closest, that and a childish immaturity. It’s like someone with severe chest pains who refuses to go to the ER because they don’t want to face the fact they’re having a heart attack, and we know all too well how that usually works out, death or severe damage. The allegory is all too accurate.
Exactly right, Sev. George Santayana wrote that those who cannot remember the past are condemned to fulfill it. Sarah is exhibit A on that count.
There’s a quote, attributed to a Holocaust survivor, who was asked what he learned from his sufferings in a concentration camp. His response was “When someone says he wants to kill you, believe him.”
Sarah, and the rest of the extreme left, are completely out of touch with those realities. Steve Skubinna says it perfectly in his post above:
many of us will be interceding with our lives to preserve silly nincompoops from being forced into burkhas or being stoned to death if they leave the house, or being crushed to death by stone walls if they’re gay, or being beaten if they cheer at a football game…We don’t do it for you per se, but for the entire civilization that we think is worth defending from the darkness.
OMG Sarah!!! You do realize without the help of the French the American Revolution would most likely not have happened. Layfayette basically became George Washington’s adopted son. His influence with the French Government helped us gain the help of the French Navy. Also how many years did the Founding Fathers search for a ‘diplomatic’ solution to end the tyranny of England?? Originally the Founding Fathers only wanted England to follow her own laws. It was only after years of diplomatic BS that our Founding Fathers decided it was time for Independance. Do us all a favor and stop reading that meglomanic Vonnegut, and pick up a real book on American History. Diplomacy has never really solved Anything in human history.
Also, you paraphrase that those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. No one here as forgot Vietnam. No one here is interested in repeating Vietnam. 1st and formost, let us remember that in Vietnam we were only “trying to contain Communism”. We are striving for Victory in Iraq. That is a huge difference. 2nd in Vietnam we had the draft and were drafting people who didn’t want to be in the military, this force in Iraq is all volunteer. Most of the men who are actual infantry want to be in the infantry. 3rd In Vietnam we, America, stupidly allowed the French to resume it’s colonialization of Vietnam. In Iraq Our stated Victory is for Iraq to be self governing with Everyone’s best interest served by the new Democratic Government. I want to know, How is this ANYTHING like Vietnam?? Because soldiers are dying?? It is not the same, and Our Troops don’t particularly appreciate the comparison.
The hippies of the 60′s became the Yuppies of the 80′s, and they became the Neo-Con’s of the present. Seems to me the hippies saw the light, and came to our senses. That is once they gave up drug use. – Lorica
How is this ANYTHING like Vietnam??
The fact that withdrawal will be catastrophic for the natives. Our total and complete abandonment of Vietnam resulted in 3-4 million deaths in the decade following, the Killing Fields of Cambodia, massive casualties in Laos, ethnic cleansing of the indigenous Montanyard populations, tens of thousands of boat people dying at sea…and the Communists have nothing on the Islamists with respect to violence and mayhem.
At least in Vietnam the Communists didn’t follow us home to attack, the Vietnamese communists just wanted us out so they could brutalize their own people, the Islamists have made no bones about the fact that they harbor far more aggressive ambitions.
Sarah, I am “censoring” you just as you likely would “censor” a little boy who said the “F” word. Show some respect and manners.
Sev, I was comparing past to present not to the future. It will be tragic if we abandon the Iraqis like we left the South Vietnamese, and many many people will die. How our friends on the left can believe they are being compassionate by leaving Iraq, is foolish thinking at best, and will make for a middle East wide catastrophe, if not wider. We will absolutely lose standing with Every Nation under the sun, and it will set back world peace for a generation or longer. As the major supporters of Sunni or Shia pour equipment into Iraq to support their side. It is sad the lazy thinking that is employed by those who believe that pulling out is the right idea. Iraq is NOW the central front in the War On Terror, and NO amount of wishful thinking is going to change that. – Lorica
I know Lorica, I am just fond of pointing out one of the only two instances where Iraq is like Vietnam…in the fact that military victories were undermined by weak willed politicians and liberal whiners, and how the end result will be identical if we follow the Vietnam paradigm. Notice how the liberals never acknowledge these Vietnam parallels.
Guys, the far left Dems are proud of what they did in Vietnam, and they will be just as proud of what results from throwing the Iraqis to the wolves. There is no shame to appeal to there.
And when I say far left Dems, I suppose what I mean is the leftward half of the party. Doesn’t seem such a fringe.
Well, if we bail things will get worse, and sadly, we will deserve what we get. Lots of blood, and not all of it brown and Arab, is going to be on our hands.
“Get it through your head – they want YOU dead. They want ME dead. They want EVERYONE dead who does not believe what THEY do. Everyone who does not believe like they do is an abomination who needs to be exterminated.”
Sorta like what you are doing. Muslims don’t believe what you believe so you think that gives you a right to kill them. They either have to convert to your ideals or get bombs thrown on their heads.
There are a lot of crazy stuff in the bible about killing people for things like adultery, and marrying a non-christian.
Back in college I had this brilliant religious studies professor and we had to read books like the koran (qu’ran is more accepted by scholars), bible, talmud, veda, and tao in my classes.
Jihad means “to struggle with one self.” It’s suppose to be a struggle for faith, which can be easily misintrepreted as a struggle to fight for one’s faith, but it’s actually a struggle to find God within. There are different types of jihad. The other form of jihad that I remember is the fight to control one’s “evil” thoughts such as compulsion. War is condemned and I wish I had the passage that states that the only war one should be fighting is within. Also women are stated to be equal and the qu’ran condemns those who treat women with difference. Jesus is awknowledged in the qu’ran as the one who came before Muhammad and his teaching are to be understood before one can understand Muhhamad’s teachings. The muslim God is stated to be the God of the Hebrews. There is an exact excerpt from the old testament, where david slays goliath that is written word for word in the qu’ran.
I’m sure that extremists will try to twist the words around for their own convenience for it is very easy to make the qu’ran say what you want it to say cuz it’s written in a really poetic way much like the bible. People burned witches and justified their actions by quoting the bible. Gay men are lynched in backwards parts of the country beacuse some people seem to be convinced that the bible condemns homosexuality. As Shakespeare said, “Even the devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.” That goes for any scripture whether it is the veda, bible or qu’ran, etc.
It seems to me that there are extremists on both sides. I know you’re convinced that all muslims want to kill you, and I am aware that there are extremists who do, but there are people in other countries who think all americans want to kill everyone. When I travel, as I do, and which more people would as well, I am faced with so many people who absolutely detest america because of our arrogance. I cringe when they tell me that they hate Americans because they think we want to make everyone American. They say we’re stupid, that we all support destruction. But not all of us are like that. I wish they’d come see us and see that not all of us want to put blacks, jews, muslims, and homosexuals in concentration camps. Some seem convinced that if we had it our way, we would. Maybe if you had it your way you would. You’d probably put liberals in camps, too.
Our foreign policy is making more enemies. There are putting America in danger with all these wars They are raging, just as the middle east has put itself in danger cuz a bunch of dimwits thought it’d be brave and heroic to blow themselves up.
Of Course, as St. Augustine said, it’s always the people with the small guns that are called terrorists, while the ones with the big guns are embraced as heroes.
“We all have to be concerned about terrorism, but you will never end terrorism by terrorizing others.” –Martin Luther King III
No Sarah, they just have to give up on killing unbelievers. Your moral equivalence is as appalling as it is morally indefensible. But fear not, stupid little coward, you will be protected along with everyone else, because it’s not really possible to defend civilization only for those who deserve it. Enjoy your free ride on the backs of people better and smarter than you.
Now I have already wasted far too much time on your stupidity. Go away and pester the other preschoolers. If you ever decide to grow up you can mix with the adults.
They’ll give up killing unbelievers when you give up killing unbelievers. Don’t you see that we are all the same. Your ancestors must have lynched blacks, maybe you still do every year on king’s birthday. Heartbreaking.
After all, war is fear cloaked in courage. And calling me a stupid little coward is quite childish. And I don’t feel protected. Ever since you guys started this “war on terrorism” I feel my world is getting more and more dangerous. I felt perfectly safe before.
I’m sorry I’m open-minded and educated. YOu’re not defending civilization, you’re ruining it with your war and games.
WE started the War on Terror??? I’m abit lost here, I thought the WOT started because someone was “struggling within themselves” By RUNNING PLANES INTO OUR BUILDINGS!!!!! Hello???? Prior to that, all retaliation against terrorists attacks were lame, to the point of useless. Talk about revisionist history. Good Lord!! I am sorry but if this is what passes for “open minded” and “educated” I will stay dumb and ignorant, cuz it is at least based in reality. Sarah what exactly is the stated reason the Al-Quida hates America? Can you tell me please? – Lorica
Adopting a John Kerry-like haughtiness, Sarah looks at the common herd and sniffs:
I’m open-minded and educated.
Happily, she gives us an example of her open-minded, educated thought process a few lines earlier in the same post. With absolutely no evidence at all, she illogically accuses Steve Skubinna of this:
Your ancestors must have lynched blacks, maybe you still do every year on king’s birthday.
Sorry, Sarah. You’re not open-minded. You’re empty-headed. They are NOT synonyms. Check the dictionary for the difference.
More later, after I’ve had the time to give her latest silliness the fisking it deserves.
Happily, she gives us an example of her open-minded, educated thought process a few lines earlier in the same post. With absolutely no evidence at all, she illogically accuses Steve Skubinna of this:
Your ancestors must have lynched blacks, maybe you still do every year on king’s birthday.
You know, she’s awfully nasty and vindictive and potty mouthed for someone who claims to be such a devout Christian ain’t she? Hmmm….
How many times have we destroyed their buidlings? They attacked us once, we saw it as an invitation to attack them 10,000 times. For every blown up bus, we follow up with blowing up 80 towns. We are tempting them to blow up more buses. We’re pissing them off. We should build them a mosque. But that would be cowardly wouldn’t it? They think we hate them for being muslim. The whole world thinks we hate them and apparently some people do, so it’s easy for them to sell their stories to people. We need to prove to them that we don’t hate, however, all we are doing is increasing their hate. We say we’re helping them, but terrorist attacks have increased since we attacked Iraq, so obviously the Iraqi people do not consider us their saviors, nor are we creating a positive image of freedom and democracy. Don’t believe everything bush feeds you, we are not winning nor can we ever win. YOu can’t win a war on terror with terror. You cannot bring peace to a region by creating a war. It’s like killing the chicken to find the egg. Violence only creates more violence. You can wipe off all the terrorists off the face of this earth, but you’ll be creating more terrorists for their ideals will just grow stronger when they witness the destruction you’ve caused, just as our ideals grew stronger after 9/11. You’re giving them 9/11′s to whine about so that they can justify their actions against us.
“If you are serious about fighting terror, the last thing you do is go around validating the premises they have built against you, if you can help it.” –?
And if you look back on your comments against me you’ll see that you’ve all have said your share of nasty words towards me. I don’t care who started it, although, you probably think it’s important, so just let me take the blame. However, our arguments have exemplified exactly what is going on in this world. And we both think we’re winning by lashing out cruel words against each other. I am terribly sorry for doing so for I see now that I am only furthur justifying your ideals. By accusing you of being backwards, I have only created more hatred towards me, justifying your reasons to call me mentally ill, silly, and stupid. It was cowardly of me to lash out in anger and try to make you believe what I do, for you have your own beliefs and I cannot call them stupid in order to glorify my own. It only hinders my efforts. Terribly sorry.
And the self pity party begins…
Sarah, one thing completely demolishes your argument, and that’s the fact that the US has gone out of it’s way to help the Islamic world, thru tsunami relief, acting to stop ethnic cleansing of Muslims in Bosnia, and many more incidents like this. What did it get us? Even more hatred and violence against us, no gratitude, and no change in the fundamentalist Islamic desire to kill and enslave us all. Yeah, we attacked the Islamists totally unprovoked, they never did a thing to us. Revisionist history on your part will not change the facts.