Haditha: Initial review finds that Marines deliberately shot civilians

Not much time to comment on this story at the moment, but it just came across the wires and I wanted to post it for readers to discuss:

WASHINGTON – Evidence collected on the deaths of 24 Iraqis in Haditha supports accusations that U.S. Marines deliberately shot the civilians, including unarmed women and children, a Pentagon official said Wednesday.

Agents of the Naval Criminal Investigative Service have completed their initial work on the incident last November, but may be asked to probe further as Marine Corps and Navy prosecutors review the evidence and determine whether to recommend criminal charges, according to two Pentagon officials who discussed the matter on condition of anonymity.

The decision on whether to press criminal charges against four Marines ultimately will be made by the commander of the accused Marines’ parent unit, the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force at Camp Pendleton, Calif. That currently is Lt. Gen. John Sattler, but he is scheduled to move to a Pentagon assignment soon; his successor will be Lt. Gen. James Mattis.

I’ll try to post updates and other blog commentary as I get the time to.

Brace yourselves for the celebrations we’re sure to see from that hate-Bush/anti-war wing of the Democratic party.

More: Allah speculates.

Prior:

14 Responses to "Haditha: Initial review finds that Marines deliberately shot civilians"

WildPonyMom says:

August 2, 2006 at 11:42 am

I dunno what there would be to “celebrate.” The news story says “supports accusations.” I hope and pray the powers that be take a good, hard look at their “source” of information.
Flopping Aces says:

August 2, 2006 at 12:14 pm

Haditha Marine Suing Murtha

Recall some of the statements made by Murtha like:
* the Marines had “killed innocent civilians in cold blood”
* “It’s much worse than was reported in Time magazine”
[…]And you will understand where this Marine is coming fro…
Sister Toldjah says:

August 2, 2006 at 12:18 pm

That was my point. For people like me and you who support our military and the war in Iraq, this is nothing to celebrate – but for the hate Bush/anti-Iraq war crowd, there will be some definate celebrating … under the disguise of ‘being concerned’ over this news.
Baklava says:

August 2, 2006 at 12:24 pm

Wildponymom,

Yes. Take a good hard look at their source of information and exume the bodies to see if the allegations are supported by the evidence. How is it that Marines can be charged by hearsay (a 40+ year old budding journalist with ties to Anti-Americanism)
All Things Beautiful says:

August 2, 2006 at 12:55 pm

My Favorite Punching Ball

Could not resist this one, after all he is my favorite punching ball, and gives me a perfect excuse to re-post my by now famous John Murtha image, which has become somewhat of a classic. Michelle Malkin has the latest Marine Staff Sgt. Frank D. Wuteric…
sanity says:

August 2, 2006 at 1:32 pm

It doesn’t look good though.

I completely support the troops, but we also have ot be realistic, that our troops are human with human emotions, and just because they are military does not mean they cannot do anything wrong.

Most military are upright, decent people, who will go out of their way to help you in need and take pride in that and in the uniform they wear, but there are those in the military have hatred, and a real desire to kill those that offend them.

We must remember that these individuals come from all types of backgrounds in a voluntary military, and these backgrounds include gang related, drug related, high school, college, ordinary blue collar workers, senators sons, congressmans sons, ect.

The military is very much a society unto themselves, but you must realize that this society has its bad elements also.

With that being said, it is too bad the media and the anti-war does not see this also. They will use these incidents as a reason to paint all military people as the same type of individuals that possibly did this.

It is the same as say:

Jefferson (D) accused of Bribery and other crimes, so ALL democrats must be corrupt. Which is incorrect and wrong to assume.

Or

A cop is found to be on the take, or is completely corrupt, so ALL cops and Police must be corrupt. This is also incorrect.

One or two bad apple do not spoil or contaminate the whole lot.

We remove the bad sections, get rid of the corrupt portions, and the whole runs cleaner.

We let the investigation continue and let those doing the investigation do their jobs. We are not Murtha, jumping to the conclusion they are guilty and running to press before they are even charged and the investigation completed.

There is one soldier that has comne forward though, so this does not look good:

TIKRIT, Iraq (AP) — A U.S. soldier testified Wednesday that four of his colleagues accused of murdering three Iraqis during a raid threatened to kill him if he told anyone about the shooting deaths.

Pfc. Bradley Mason, speaking at a hearing to determine whether the four must stand trial, also said that their brigade commander, a veteran of the 1993 “Black Hawk Down” battle in Somalia, told troops hunting insurgents to “kill all of them.” Mason is not one of the accused.

….

Mason testified that Spc. William B. Hunsaker threatened him a day after the alleged killings. He said he was accosted by Staff Sgt. Raymond L. Girouard and Pfc. Corey R. Clagett on May 29 when he was on his way to the Criminal Investigation Division.

Asked what was said that was of a threatening nature, Mason replied that Girouard told him: “‘If you say anything, I’ll kill you.’ I took them pretty seriously.”

….

Mason said that before they embarked on the search mission, the rules of engagement were explained and clearly spelled out by brigade commander Col. Michael Steele.

“He (Steele) just said that the rules of engagement were that ‘we get to kill all the male insurgents,'” Mason said.

“Kill all of them,” Mason quoted Steele as saying. When asked who those people were, Mason said “insurgents, terrorists.”

….

Describing the events of May 9, Mason testified that he was with the four accused during a raid on a house with an objective “to catch all the bad guys.” On entering the house, the unit found and detained three men hiding behind two women.

He said soldiers found one handgun, one AK-47 automatic rifle, and many gun parts and bullets.

Mason quoted Girouard as saying that Clagett and Hunsaker were going to kill the three detainees.

“They just smiled,” he said.

“I told him (Girouard) that I’m not down with it. It’s murder,” he said. Immediately afterward, he heard gunshots, he said.

Link

As I said, there always bad elements in any society, it is a matter of rooting them out and getting rid of them.

Unfortunately, the anti-everything people will use this as a broad paint brush to paint the whole military and the whole administration as corrupt.
WildPonyMom says:

August 2, 2006 at 2:18 pm

Mornin’ Sister,

If the allegations are found to be true, providing those investigating actually do their investigative work (think Cold Case Files and Forensic Detectives), and not just rely on hearsay, it will be a sad day.

Sanity:

The military is very much a society unto themselves, but you must realize that this society has its bad elements also.

I’ve been a military wife my entire adult life … my husband is a retired USMC SgtMaj … so I’ve lived the life of a military society, but I appreciate your sentiment.

Cheers,
WPM
sanity says:

August 2, 2006 at 2:31 pm

I also have been US ARMY.
Basic in FT. Jackson, SC.
First Duty Station in Camp Pendleton (W), 9 miles away from the DMZ in S. Korea.

2nd Duty Station FT. Campbell, KY, with a side trip to Panama for Jungle training.

Now that our mutual “credentials” are out in the open, not that it should make a big difference in either case. But I have lived the military life also.

As I posted, there is also a PFC that is testifying, and I have quoted and linked at the bottom of my previous statement. I have yet to call them guilty, only that it doesn’t look good.

I also stated no matter what people think of the military, they are a society different than normal “civvies” and they are made up of former “civies” of a variety of backgrounds, so there very well could be truth to this. But I plan to wait to make judgement till after the findings. Unlike Murtha.

I am not sure where or what your refuting or commenting on my statement though? Perhaps you could expand on it, since all you seem to have done is give me a little of your background in response to my statement, which did not make much sense to me.

The statement you quoted from me is a general statement for all to put this into context and not directed at you specifically, regardless of your background.
Baklava says:

August 2, 2006 at 2:36 pm

I think Bush ordered these Haditha murders and until Bush is removed from office atrocities will continue.

/end channeling a lefty
sanity says:

August 2, 2006 at 2:40 pm

Side note though, most who know me here know I have little tolerance for those who bash or go after the military for now reason.

The biggest thing that has p*ssed me off lately has been te Kansas Church protesting Military funerals. I have blogged on this a few times ripping them to shreds, including the latest where they have been fined $5,000 from Michigan for asking for local police protection and then not showing.

But I am not deluded in thinking that there cannot be any possiblity this could have happened. The military is made up of a variety of individuals, races, religons and backgrounds.

There could be a possibility this happened, and I would want this fully vetted and investigated to remove any tarnish Murtha and the MSM have tried to paint these soldiers with IF they are innocent. If they are not innocent, then I want them punished according to the UCMJ.

But with though this all, they are innocent until proven guilty.
sanity says:

August 2, 2006 at 2:42 pm

This would never have happened if I was President and until Bush is removed from office atrocities will continue.

/end channeling Kerry
WildPonyMom says:

August 2, 2006 at 3:08 pm

Hey Sanity,

… no need to get so defensive. I was merely sharing my personal military wife experience with you based on you what you wrote: “The military is very much a society unto themselves, but you must realize that this society has its bad elements also.”

(To lay out my husband’s career, suffice to say he did 30 years, one month, and 4 days … there’s not enough room to post the where and the when )

I don’t know if those charged did, or didn’t murder people … and I doubt any of us will ever know what really happened. I read what the PFC had to say … but unless and until it’s been fully investigated, I would hope those charged won’t be based on his word alone. I hope there’s an actual, factual investigation into what happened.

I agree with you that good and bad people exist in every walk of life.
sanity says:

August 2, 2006 at 5:42 pm

Not geting defensive actually, was just trying to figure out wht or ow what you wrote corresponded to what you quoted from me. Sorry if it seemed defensive.

I read the PFC’s account of things also, and while he was not witness to it, he describes suspicions and then HEARING shots fired and finding them dead.

A scenario they did not put through and could very well have happened….Is that they find these so-called “men” hiding behind women, and when this PFC’s back was turned or he had left the scene, they could have tried to jump the soldiers and were shot.

The PFC’s words are going to be pretty damning, and he describes the lead up and the aftermath, but is not witness to the actual shooting, and I am not a lawyer, but figure circumstantial evidence could get them convicted. I guess that depends on whether they are tried in civilian court or military court.

This also could dog and pony show through the military, to make it seem like they are doing it for the interest of justice, but be bowed and swayed to have a conviction because of public opinion and reactions of the civilians in Iraq.

Lets hope his is based on evidence and not on hearsay, the push and loudmouth antics of Murtha, MSM, and the Anti-war and Anti-America crowds.

You can be damn sure this will be watched by the enemy and use as a propagada tool, if it isn’t already. Murtha is probably the enemies best friend when it comes to blasting the American troops.

What disturbs me is if no bodies can be examined to determine how they died, then it will come down to hearsay and this PHC’s accounts of the leadup and aftermath, and “hearing” shots fired, and the reactions of the soldiers with him, and the threats of death he said he received from the same soldiers.

As I said, it seems pretty damning. Is it enough to charge and convict, I don’t know.
Drewsmom says:

August 2, 2006 at 10:33 pm

We will really never know if they did this or not cuz there won’t be any forensics done and all the so called wittnesses are against our military and the p.c. element of the DOD has gotten to the Marines.
They are damned if they do and damned if they don’t, they won’t really let em fight this war right like the IDF is doing, they don’t give a shit what anybody thinks, they are fighthing a WAR.
I’m just glad that one Marine has filed a suit against traitor Murtha for slander or liable .. good for him …. God, I’m so sick of the weenie left, they’re gonna get us all killed.

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